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Thread: Letter to Gallagher's Eatery in Kalamazoo

  1. #1
    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    Here's the draft of the letter I'm going to email them. It's not quite finished, but I thought I'd post it for suggestions. Where it says NAME, I'm waiting to find out the name of the manager who talked to me.

    Things I still am going to add:

    -I assumed that Gallagher's was a bar, but if it's not, people could already be concealing anyway

    -I do not patronize restaurants that disallow me to exercise my right to self defense - many people feel the same as me in this matter

    -I don't drink when I carry

    For convenience, here are links to the original post:

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/27552.html

    and the other post I made about the issue:

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/34429.html




    LETTER EDITED OUT - SEE MOST RECENT POST FOR MOST RECENT LETTER

    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

  2. #2
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Here is my edited version. You need to end with a call to action. What is the point of the letter? Do you want to meet with the owner to discuss this matter? Do you want to have them allow OC in their place???

    On Monday, June 22, like every Monday, I visited Gallagher’s Eatery in Kalamazoo to meet with friends. We often stay late and spend thousands of dollars a year in your business. I alsoopen carry a firearm for all lawful purposes.

    On this night, I was sitting outside at a table withfriends.I was approached by NAME, whoknows me as a regular customer. NAME told me that it was illegal to have a gun in a bar. I informed her that I was licensed, and while I cannot legally conceal a firearmin a bar, I can lawfully opencarry a firearmin any of Michigan’s Pistol Free Zones, including a bar (MCL 750.234d and Attorney General Opinion No. 7097 [/b]January 11, 2002).

    She insisted that she was correct. I informed her once again that that was incorrect. She then said something to the effect of, "Well I just want you to let you know that we know you have it. Is that fair?" I told her, “Yes, that’s very fair.” She then went back inside.

    About 10 minutes later she came out again and informed me that she had talked with the Kalamazoo Department of Public Safety, who had (wrongfully) informed her that in fact she was right - that guns weren't allowed in bars. I told her that I had the book of Michigan firearms laws in my car outside and that I would be happy to show her that what I'm doing is legal. I also informed her that many people in law enforcement aren't aware of the laws regarding open carry and that I was positive that I was correct.


    She said that's not what the lieutenant on the phone had told her. I said once again that I'd show her the law but she wasn't interested. She told me that I was making some of her employees nervous and I was making her nervous as well, that she didn't want to argue, and that my choices were to put it in my car orleave.

    I acknowledged that because it was private propertyshe had the authority to ask me to leave, so I left and have not returned, preferring to spend my money at a competitor that doesn't have a problem understanding the law.

    What confused me about this encounter is that I had openly carried my firearminto Gallagher’s numerous times, without issue. I know people whoopenly carry in the Gallagher’s in Paw Paw, all without issue. I was not causingtrouble, and until I was approached by NAME with her misinformation about firearm laws there had been no issues whatsoever.


    POINT AND CALL FOR ACTION????




    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    Thanks, Venator. It's not quite done yet, as I stated above, and I will be adding the "point and call for action" shortly.

    Thanks for your input so far.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    Here's the new version. Suggestions welcome! Please make sure they're easy to find (in red). I think my call for action (last paragraph) could be worded better - any suggestions there? I will be sending this as soon as I get the name of the manager, and have written a suitable call for action.



    November 28, 2009

    Paul Jr. and Gallagher’s Eatery,

    On Monday, June 22, like every Monday, I visited Gallagher’s Eatery in Kalamazoo to meet with friends. We often stay late and spend thousands of dollars a year at your business. I open carry a firearm for all lawful purposes, and had done so before in your establishment with no issues.

    On this night, I was sitting outside at a table with friends when I was approached by Angie, one of your managers, who knew me as a regular customer. Angie told me that it was illegal to have a gun in a bar. I informed her that I was licensed, and while I could not legally conceal a firearm in a bar, I could lawfully open carry a firearm in any of Michigan’s Pistol Free Zones, including a bar (MCL 750.234d and Attorney General Opinion No. 7097 January 11, 2002).

    She insisted that she was correct. I informed her once again that that was incorrect. She then said something to the effect of, "Well I just want you to let you know that we know you have it. Is that fair?" I told her, “Yes, that’s very fair.” She then went back inside.

    About 10 minutes later she came out again and informed me that she had talked with the Kalamazoo Department of Public Safety, who had (wrongfully) informed her that in fact she was right - that guns weren't allowed in bars. I told her that I had the book of Michigan firearms laws in my car outside and that I would be happy to show her that what I'm doing is legal. I also informed her that many people in law enforcement aren't aware of the laws regarding open carry and that I was positive that I was correct.

    She said that that's not what the lieutenant on the phone had told her. I said once again that I'd show her the law but she wasn’t interested. She told me that I was making some of her employees nervous and that I was making her nervous as well, that she didn’t want to argue, and that my choices were to put it in my car or to leave.

    I acknowledged that because it was private property she had the authority to ask me to leave, so I paid my bill and left. I have not returned to spend money in your establishment, with few exceptions, as I prefer to spend my money at establishments that do not disallow my right to self-defense.

    What confused me about this encounter is that I had openly carried into Gallagher’s numerous times before without issue. I know people who openly carry at the Gallagher’s in Paw Paw, also without issue. I was not causing any trouble and, until I was approached by Angie with her misinformation about firearms laws, there had been no issues whatsoever.

    I would like to return to Gallagher’s to spend money there, as I enjoy the food and the time spent there with friends. However, I do not patronize establishments that disallow my right to self-defense.

    I would like to know whether Gallagher’s prohibits the lawful carry of a firearm or if Angie was acting of her own accord. This will determine whether or not I will return to spend my money at Gallagher’s.

    Respectfully,
    [EM87]
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    I plan on sending this tonight, as-is. Any suggestions? Does the last paragraph sound okay?
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Looks fine to me..
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  7. #7
    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    Made minor grammatical changes.

    Email sent. Hopefully things will turn out in our favor.

    I'll post the response.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    Received a reply. Short answer: no OC in Gallagher's.



    Hello [EM87], and thank you for your email. Yes, I did receive your email and I apologize for the delay in getting back to you.

    Your incident is rather unique to me as I have never personally had to deal with somene wanting to bring a firearm into my establishment.

    I remember the night you dealt with Angie regarding the matter because she was on the phone with me speaking about it.

    The question here is not one of legality. I certainly recogonize your right to own and carry a side arm. I say legality isn't a factor because this particular issue is one of personal comfort level. It simply comes down to me not being comfortable allowing a patron in my restaurant that feels the need to openly carry a side arm. It alarms me and others that see someone openly carrying their sidearm because it's not a sight people are accustomed to seeing at Gallaghers.

    If you were a law enforcement agent and had to carry a pistol for your job, I suppose that would be a different story. My understanding though is that you want to carry your pistol for the purpose of personal protection and because you are licensed to carry.

    I'm sorry to hear that we will lose you as a patron over this matter. I do hope that you'll reconsider your decision. You are always welcome at Gallaghers, but you will need to leave the gun in the car.

    Thank you for your understanding,

    Paul
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    I'm drafting a letter back to them and I'll post it here for suggestions.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    EM87 wrote:
    I'm drafting a letter back to them and I'll post it here for suggestions.
    If your further attempts to resolve or convince then to change their policy fails we could email themand express our disappointment and that we will respect their wishes by notgoing to their Establishment.


    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    That seems about on par with what I'm writing to them right now. I'll post for ideas soon.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    Here's my tentative response. I don't know what question to ask at the end to ensure another response from him though. If he denies OC a second time, I just want one more follow-up email, but I need him to write back in order for that to happen.

    Suggestions? The third paragraph needs work.




    Paul,

    Thank you for your response. I understand that some people are not comfortable with open carry since it is not something one sees every day.

    Regarding your decision to disallow open carry at Gallagher’s, it wouldn’t be fair of me to not inform you that any establishment known to have a “No Open Carry” rule is put on a “Do Not Patronize” list, which is viewed by a high volume of pro-gun citizens in Michigan. I understand that Gallagher’s is your establishment and that you make the rules as you see fit, but that is something to consider.

    Part of the reason I choose to open carry is to desensitize the public to seeing a firearm on a law-abiding citizen. As you may know, it is the armed, law-abiding citizen who saves lives. As the saying goes, “When seconds count, the police are just minutes away.” If anything were to ever happen at Gallagher’s, I hope that … [trying to articulate a situation in which he would be glad he let people OC]

    I sincerely hope that you will reconsider your decision.

    Regards,
    [EM87]
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    EM87 wrote:
    I'm drafting a letter back to them and I'll post it here for suggestions.
    you should include the question of whether he is going to assume financial liability and responsibility should anything happen in his establishment that injures you because you were unable to defend yourself.

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    DKSuddeth wrote:
    EM87 wrote:
    I'm drafting a letter back to them and I'll post it here for suggestions.
    you should include the question of whether he is going to assume financial liability and responsibility should anything happen in his establishment that injures you because you were unable to defend yourself.
    Hmm, I like that. Would that be plausible though? "Establishment denies gun rights, patron sues when he was unable to defend himself." It seems like a bit of a stretch to me.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    EM87 wrote:
    If anything were to ever happen at Gallagher’s, I hope that … [trying to articulate a situation in which he would be glad he let people OC]
    Ithink you are on the right track of pursuing this in a very professional matter, i just hope the above statement of "if anything were to happen..." does notput blame on lawful OCers if anything were to happen, as looking at your previous letter i am not concerned you will word it correctlyto getthe message acrossi just find thatdesensitizing the public is harder than i ever thought, i have shown people the law and they still disagree with me. good luck with the pursuit of Gallagher's

    Devery

  16. #16
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Paul,

    Thank you for your response. I understand that some people are not comfortable with open carry since it is not something one sees every day. That is part of the reason I OC, to educate and desensitize the public.

    As for your reasoning for banning firearms let me say that as an owner you have the ability to ban anyone not protected by law and you would not lose this right by allowing your customers to carry handguns. If you felt uncomfortable with a particular person you can deal with it on a case by case manner. But banning all law abiding individuals is just plain bad for business.

    Please consider the attached information on businesses that allow all legal forms of firearm carry. These businesses big and small recognize that a significant percentage of their customer base is pro-gun and do not want to lose them. They have not experienced any negative impact due to allowing firearms in their businesses, in fact the upside is increased sales.

    Regarding your decision to disallow lawful firearm carry in Gallagher’s, I will state that any establishment known to have a “No firearm” rule is put on several webites “Do Not Patronize” list, which is viewed by thousandsof pro-gun citizens in Michigan.

    I would be happy to meet with you in person and discuss this issue further, you have much to gain with little to lose by allowing the lawful carry of firearms in your restaurant.

    I sincerely hope that you will reconsider your decision.

    Thank you for your time and consideration.

    Sincerely,

    Michigan OC Friendly PlacesBy County.

    Berrien County:


    The Fire Place Shoppe: 5360 Red Arrow Highway Stevensville, Michigan 49127
    Burkett HVAC R-Service LLC: 5360 Red Arrow Highway Stevensville, Michigan 49127

    Calhoun County:

    South Side Sportsman Club: 539 Capital Avenue SW Battle Creek, Michigan49015
    Phone: 269-968-4229
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    Clare County:

    Jay's Sporting Goods: 8800 South Clare Avenue Clare, Michigan

    Clinton County:

    KC's Cuts- Barber Main Street downtown Bath, Michigan
    Mid-Michigan Guns and Gear: 3630 Main Street Suite D Bath, Michigan 48808
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    Eaton Rapids Conservation Club: 4100 Freeman Road Eaton Rapids, Michigan
    Phone: 616-663-1255


    Genesee County:

    Tom's Coney Cafe 512 S Dort HwyFlint, MI 48503 (810) 767-3540
    Tom’s Coney Café 6339 S Saginaw Rd Grand Blanc, MI 48439 (810) 695-2233
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    Valley Coney Island: 5009 Miller Rd, Flint, Michigan
    Williams Gun and Sight Co: 7389 Lapeer Road Davison, Michigan
    Website:
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    Grand Traverse County:

    Professional Tool Services: 1220 Woodmere Ave Traverse City, Michigan
    The Discerning Shootist: 721 Woodmere Ave Traverse City, Michigan
    wsracer@hotmail.com
    Jere's Barber Shop: 110 South Oak Street Traverse City, Michigan 49684-2450
    Phone: 231-946-8233‎
    Hampel's, Inc. Gun & Lock Store, since 1919: 710 Randolph Street Traverse City, Michigan 49684.
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    DeMar's Food Market: 901 Calumet Street Lake Linden, Michigan 49945
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    Starlite Cab Company: 1703 E. Michigan Avenue Jackson, Michigan
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    Foote's One StopShop:326 W. Michigan Avenue Jackson Michigan 49203
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    Owner: Bob Phone: 517-783-1190

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    Kalamazoo County:

    Fourth Coast Cafe: 816 South Westnedge Ave #1 Kalamazoo, Michigan
    Harding's MarketPlace: 412 Howard Street Kalamazoo, Michigan
    Theo & Stacy's Restaurant: 234 W Michigan Avenue Kalamazoo, Michigan
    Phone: 269-388-5025 Website: http://www.theoandstacys.com/

    Kent County:

    Silver Bullet Firearms: 5121 Division Avenue S, Grand Rapids, Michigan 49548
    Phone: 616-249-1911
    Website:
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    Livingston County:

    Don Pablo's Flint,

    Tyrone Party Store: 9485 Center Rd, Fenton, Michigan


    Macomb County:

    National Coney Island: 27027 Gratiot Ave, Roseville, Michigan
    Hunts With Double Indoor:51334 Danview Technology Ct
    Shelby Twp, Michigan 48315
    Website: http://www.huntswithdouble.com/
    Andary's Grill: 20658 Hall Road Clinton Twp, Michigan
    Phone: 586-954-9380

    Monroe County:

    Café Classics Coffee House: 29 S. Monroe Street Monroe, Michigan
    Phone: 734-242-8286
    Website:
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    Oakland County:

    Ogemaw County:



    J.P. Sporting Goods:3275 West M-55 West Branch, Michigan 48661
    Phone: 989-345-3744 Map:
    JPSportingGoods

    Otsego County:

    Jay's Sporting Goods: 150 Dale Drive Gaylord, Michigan

    Roscommon County:

    Brownies Bait And Tackle:1347 North. St. Helen St. Helen, Michigan 48656
    Phone: 989-389-7155

    St. Helen Hardware: 2171 N. St Helen Road St Helen Michigan 48656-9454
    Whites Metal Detectors Authorized Dealer
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    Phone: 989-275-5554

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    Phone: 989-366-9900 Fax: 989-366-6612

    LURE'S Family Restaurant: 2570 N. St. Helen Road Saint Helen, Michigan 48656
    Phone: 989-389-7558


    Van Buren County:

    Mr. C's Barber Shop: 115 First Street Lawrence, Michigan
    Phone: 269-674-3878
    K & D Arms:106 North Paw Paw Street Lawrence, Michigan
    Phone: 269-674-4071 Website:
    http://www.kdarms.com/index.html

    Wayne County:

    Flanarys Guns Inc: 153 Merriman Road Garden City, Michigan 48135
    Phone: 734-286-4867 0r 734-402-7500
    http://www.flanarysguns.webs.com/
    Auto Zone: 1636 North Wayne Road Westland, Michigan
    SP Guns N Ammo: 16070 Eureka Road Southgate, Michigan
    Phone: 734-225-7426


    Corporate Policies

    Boston Market
    McDonalds
    BOB EVANS
    Barnes & Noble

    Walmart
    Cabelas
    Toys-R-US
    LOWE'S
    Home Depot.
    BEST BUY's POLICY
    Bass Pro. Inc




    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  17. #17
    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    Thanks, Venator! That helps a lot.

    manicdevery wrote:
    EM87 wrote:
    If anything were to ever happen at Gallagher’s, I hope that … [trying to articulate a situation in which he would be glad he let people OC]
    ...i just hope the above statement of "if anything were to happen..." does not*put blame on lawful OCers if anything were to happen...
    That's the part I don't like the sound of, and it will change. Thanks for your input! I always appreciate feedback.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

  18. #18
    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    Here's the revised version. I still feel like I'm missing something. Perhaps the merits of having lawfully carried firearms in the establishment? Or is that not necessary?

    Suggestions?




    Paul,

    Thank you for your response. I understand that some people are not comfortable with open carry since it is not something one sees every day. That is part of the reason I open carry – to educate and desensitize the public to seeing a lawfully carried firearm.

    As for your reasoning for banning firearms, please consider the attached information on businesses that allow all legal forms of firearm carry. These businesses, both big and small, recognize that a significant percentage of their customer base is pro-gun and do not want to lose them. They have not experienced any negative impact due to allowing firearms in their businesses. In fact, the upside is increased sales.

    If you feel uncomfortable with a certain person you could deal with it on a case-by-case basis. Banning all law-abiding individuals is just plain bad for business.

    Regarding your decision to ban firearms at Gallagher’s, it is only fair of me to inform you that any establishment known to have a “No Firearms” rule is put on a “Do Not Patronize” list on multiple websites and is viewed by thousands of pro-gun citizens in Michigan.

    I would be happy to meet with you in person to discuss this issue further. You have much to gain but little to lose by allowing the lawful carry of firearms in your restaurant.

    I sincerely hope that you will reconsider your decision.

    Thank you for your time and consideration.

    Sincerely,
    [EM87]
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

  19. #19
    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    Or if it looks good to send, I'll send it.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    I've been discussing OC with people in a way which I feel deflects the focus on open carrying. Something to the affect of:

    The reason you've most likely never had to deal with issues about people carrying is because the average customer who carry would conceal it and most likely you've had hundreds of customers carrying without you even knowing about it. Open carry is just another choice in the method of carrying an item for self protection. The average person doesn't even notice people carrying and if they do as long as that person is acting responsible just like anything they go on with what they are doing. If by chance someone were to have a problem with it's best to handle it on a case by case basis rather then all out ban a whole segment of customers from your store because of a small few customers who may complain. What do you guys think?

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    Might i suggest that you inform the restraunt that since they are NOT open carry friendly,

    that you will do business with Theo & Stacy's on N. Westnedgewhich IS Open Carry friendly

  22. #22
    Regular Member Generaldet's Avatar
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    mikestilly wrote:
    I've been discussing OC with people in a way which I feel deflects the focus on open carrying. Something to the affect of:

    The reason you've most likely never had to deal with issues about people carrying is because the average customer who carry would conceal it and most likely you've had hundreds of customers carrying without you even knowing about it. Open carry is just another choice in the method of carrying an item for self protection. The average person doesn't even notice people carrying and if they do as long as that person is acting responsible just like anything they go on with what they are doing. If by chance someone were to have a problem with it's best to handle it on a case by case basis rather then all out ban a whole segment of customers from your store because of a small few customers who may complain. What do you guys think?
    Excellent points. I would definitely include them in the letter.

    The main thing is to express your point without coming across threatening or like you are bashing his decision. I hope you get back a better response from him this time around. I'd just send it off and see what happens. Then go from there.

  23. #23
    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    Okay, I think this may be the final draft. What do you all think?




    Paul,

    Thank you for your response. I understand that some people are not comfortable with open carry since it is not something one sees every day. That is part of the reason I open carry – to educate and desensitize the public to seeing a lawfully carried firearm.

    As for your decision to ban firearms, please consider the attached list of businesses that allow all legal forms of firearm carry. These businesses, both big and small, recognize that a significant percentage of their customer base is pro-gun and do not want to lose them. They have not experienced any negative impact due to allowing firearms in their businesses. In fact, the upside is increased sales.

    If Gallagher’s as a whole (not just the bar side) does not make the majority of its income through alcohol sales, it is legal for a licensed person to conceal in the establishment (MCL 28.425o(1)(d)). Does Gallagher’s make the majority of its income through alcohol sales? To be safe, I chose to open carry in what I thought may have been a bar, whereas others might see Gallagher’s as a restaurant and have no problem concealing a legally carried firearm.

    That being said, it is likely that you've had hundreds of customers carrying without you or any employees even knowing about it. Also, it has been my experience that the average person does not even notice a person carrying openly, and if they do, as long as that person is acting responsibly, it has been my experience that the person will continue what they were doing with no negative reaction.

    If you feel uncomfortable with a certain person, you could deal with them on a case-by-case basis instead of banning all firearms in your establishment. Banning all law-abiding Concealed Pistol License holders is just plain bad for business.

    One thing I must mention, as it is only fair of me to do so, is that any establishment known to have a “No Firearms” rule is put on a “Do Not Patronize” list on multiple websites and is viewed by thousands of pro-gun citizens in Michigan.

    I would be happy to meet with you in person to discuss this issue further. You have much to gain but little to lose by allowing the lawful carry of firearms at Gallagher’s.

    I sincerely hope that you will reconsider your decision.

    Thank you for your time and consideration.

    Sincerely,
    [EM87]
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Hartford, MI, ,
    Posts
    353

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    I suddenly have an urge to write Gallagher's.

    "Dear Sir:

    I have recently been informed of your restaurant's anti-defense policy.

    I just would like to inform you that I will gladly be redirecting myself, my family, and my friends elsewhere, to a restaurant that respects OUR life and OUR right to self-defense.

    Thank You.

    Sincerely,
    Richard

    PS:
    Please be sure to place this sign in your front window:
    CRIMINALS WELCOME!
    DISARMED CITIZENS INSIDE"

    Okay, the PS part is a bit of a joke, but sadly true, eh? Stuff like this makes my blood boil...

    -Richard-



  25. #25
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,445

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    PM sent with my comments.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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