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Thread: "Your Property"

  1. #1
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    I recently got job at a Gun Shop and have noticed a lot of employees open carry. I presume that they all have their CHL but how can they get away with open carry? And what is the definition of "your property". I rent a apartment but i don't own it or the grounds so i couldent open carry from my apt to my car or walk around inside the complex... Can i walk around in my apt O/C and even out on my balcony legally? What about others property, ie friends or family assuming i have permission. But why can people who have a home O/C on their driveway, grass etc but i cant walk around the complex that i rent in...I could see liket he gun shop thing the owner owns the property and lets the employees with a CHL do as they wish, would other property like friends or family be the same since they own it and i have their permission to do so?
    how if i O/C at the gun shop, my apt, or if i owned a home or wherever else is it not in violation of this
    (a)A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.


  2. #2
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    This has been discussed to death both here, and on the Texas gunforums.

    Here's what it boils down to: the employees are breaking the law, but no one cares.



  3. #3
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    The way I saw it was that they are charged with protection of the property, so they're allowed to carry. Isn't that according to the law?

  4. #4
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    Common law applies when on private property in Texas. The owner or any personholding possession of real property is in control of the premises.

    Any owner or personaquiring leasehold rights toany legally described premises (building, or land)exercises control over those premises. That control may be delegated or assigned to any agent of the owner or the primary person in control.

    Why strain the limitsof thisunconstitutional statute with presumptions that only serve to stretch it to incompass situations that were never intended for its application.If someone wants to operate a business on their private premises while wearing a handgun displayed on their belt no law precludes that in Texas.









  5. #5
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    jsimmons wrote:
    The way I saw it was that they are charged with protection of the property, so they're allowed to carry. Isn't that according to the law?
    No, if that were true, they would have to be licensed security officers:

    (b)Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:

    ...

    (2)is on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control unless the person is an employee or agent of the owner of the premises and the person's primary responsibility is to act in the capacity of a security guard to protect persons or property, in which event the person must comply with Subdivision (5);

  6. #6
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    An employee who is OCing is either in violation of Penal Code 46.02 or 46.035, OR in violation of Occupations Code 1702, which requires that an employee charged with protection of the premises be a licensed security officer.

    (If they are a security officer, they're required to be in uniform and carrying openly, unless they're a licensed personal protection officer.)


  7. #7
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    An employee may be delegated the authority to be "in controlof the premises" , orhold delegated authority under a sharedresponsibiltyto control the premises.


    Furthermore it may be logically inferred that said authority to control the premises also entails a right and responsibility to protect one's self, other employees, and property from potential criminal threatswithoutthat employee filling asecurity position, or wearing a distinctive "security" uniform.Whethersuch person in authority chooses to conceal or not to conceal a handgun while performing his/her assigned duties of employment would be a business/security decision not a legal consideration.

    The letter of statutory law not only does not obliterate common law principles- but must imbrace, encompass, and be complimented bythose principles. Common law is where the legal concept of "reasonableness" is derived from. Generally criminal statutes are enacted to address the behavioral fringes of reasonableness. The hypotheticalassumes that the ultimate authority (the BIG boss) has in fact delegated such authority . This ultimately holds true in any state not just Texas.


  8. #8
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    There's a couple of factors here.

    1) It's generally considered that the business owner can choose to allow/disallow the carrying of a firearm at will. It does become a different question if it's "required"--that's where you get into the whole licensed security question.

    2) Maybe it's as simple as this: You would expect that an employee of The Men's Wearhouse would likely be wearing/displaying a suit or sportcoat from inventory...why wouldn't you expect the same from a gun shop employee?

    To the OP: Ask your coworkers and/or boss directly about their policies.

    Just my thoughts....No "law" here

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