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Thread: racial profiling

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    Regular Member 2ndammendmentbrotha's Avatar
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    Yesterday I was walking from a store in Hammond at Calumet & Michigan streets. Moving along sipping a coffee. A noise from behind tells me to look back. I do and it is Hammond's finest calling me. I was carrying my sw40ve concealed and I advised the officer of this and asked why he was stopping me. The officer said that he would tell me later. After he takes my pistol and ammo he says that someone said that I looked suspicious and I was being checked out but not under arrest.Meanwhile I sit in police car 15 minutes while my gun,my permit andI werebeing checked out. I don't have braids,tatoos, or sagging pants I am a large brown skinned greying (some say handsome)46 year old black man. I look like the laborer that I am.I asked what was suspicious about going to a store for a cup of coffee and ciggarettes? He responded that a woman said I looked creepy to her. A "creepy" looking white man would not have gotten police attention. If I had been oc they would have called the swat team and aimed guns at me.

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    That wasn't cops profiling. It was the complainer.

    I do NOT believe in profiling except: If a white does something illegal, look for a white. If a black does something illegal, look for a black. If a ....... You get my point.

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    Regular Member 2ndammendmentbrotha's Avatar
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    Why would the police be bothered to respond to a man walking drinking a coffee? I see plenty of suspiciouslystrange looking people everyday but if they are not doing anything wrong no police reqiured. I still believe thata white man would not have been stopped, maybe onlylooked at if anything especially ifno crime was even alleged.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    2ndammendmentbrotha wrote:
    Why would the police be bothered to respond to a man walking drinking a coffee? I see plenty of suspiciouslystrange looking people everyday but if they are not doing anything wrong no police reqiured. I still believe thata white man would not have been stopped, maybe onlylooked at if anything especially ifno crime was even alleged.
    Police didn't respond to a man walking and drinking coffee; they responded to a citizen's call. Might seem unreasonable to have done so, but don't see the LEO was at fault for anything.

    BTW - if you were CCing, how did it happen to be seen?

    You will get more mileage on OCDO if you do not so casually play the race card - just saying. Don't see/read any evidence of profiling here in any event.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    2ndammendmentbrotha wrote:
    Why would the police be bothered to respond to a man walking drinking a coffee? I see plenty of suspiciouslystrange looking people everyday but if they are not doing anything wrong no police reqiured. I still believe thata white man would not have been stopped, maybe onlylooked at if anything especially ifno crime was even alleged.
    Police didn't respond to a man walking and drinking coffee; they responded to a citizen's call. Might seem unreasonable to have done so, but don't see the LEO was at fault for anything.

    BTW - if you were CCing, how did it happen to be seen?

    You will get more mileage on OCDO if you do not so casually play the race card - just saying. Don't see/read any evidence of profiling here in any event.

    Yata hey
    2nd didn't say she, or anyone else,seen a pistol, he disclosed to the LEO he was CC.

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    After he takes my pistol and ammo he says that someone said that I looked suspicious and I was being checked out but not under arrest.



    I'd sue the crap out of them. Suspicious of what? What crime? What were you doing that was illegal?

    WTF does creepy mean? I'd sue them for unlawful detainment.


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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    2ndammendmentbrotha wrote:

    Yesterday I was walking from a store in Hammond at Calumet & Michigan streets. Moving along sipping a coffee. A noise from behind tells me to look back. I do and it is Hammond's finest calling me. I was carrying my sw40ve concealed and I advised the officer of this and asked why he was stopping me. The officer said that he would tell me later. After he takes my pistol and ammo he says that someone said that I looked suspicious and I was being checked out but not under arrest.Meanwhile I sit in police car 15 minutes while my gun,my permit andI werebeing checked out. I don't have braids,tatoos, or sagging pants I am a large brown skinned greying (some say handsome)46 year old black man. I look like the laborer that I am.I asked what was suspicious about going to a store for a cup of coffee and ciggarettes? He responded that a woman said I looked creepy to her. A "creepy" looking white man would not have gotten police attention. If I had been oc they would have called the swat team and aimed guns at me.
    Well, I hope you learned your lesson...:?At least you're good looking. File a complaint. This isn't ******* Iran.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Regular Member Outdoorsman's Avatar
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    Yep, sounds like a load of crap to me. I would definitely file a complaint.

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    I'm big, creepy looking, plenty of gray on top and those are my strong points,providing on don't wake up on the wrong side of the bed.

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    Regular Member Beau's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    2ndammendmentbrotha wrote:
    Why would the police be bothered to respond to a man walking drinking a coffee? I see plenty of suspiciouslystrange looking people everyday but if they are not doing anything wrong no police reqiured. I still believe thata white man would not have been stopped, maybe onlylooked at if anything especially ifno crime was even alleged.
    Police didn't respond to a man walking and drinking coffee; they responded to a citizen's call. Might seem unreasonable to have done so, but don't see the LEO was at fault for anything.

    BTW - if you were CCing, how did it happen to be seen?

    You will get more mileage on OCDO if you do not so casually play the race card - just saying. Don't see/read any evidence of profiling here in any event.

    Yata hey
    Seriously? You don't see anything wrong with your statement?

    Yes they did respond to a citizen's complaint. However, since when is being perceived as "looking creepy" a crime? And how exactly do you articulate a "creepy look"?Being black? How about white? Long hair, tattoos, bright colored clothes, what?

    Basically you are stating that LE reserves the right to detain a person for whatever they reason they want.

    The stop was unlawful. At best the officer could have followed the person and observe behaviour. Hopefully the OP obtained the name and badge number of the officer and will file a complaint.

    As far as the OP pulling out the race card. Who knows? Maybe he is right, maybe not. I can see why he would feel that way after being stopped because he "looked creepy".
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    If there was not a complaint call, it would seem to be an unwarranted Terry Stop. FOIA would solve that problem.

    I am judging neither way - I wasn't there.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Beau's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    If there was not a complaint call, it would seem to be an unwarranted Terry Stop. FOIA would solve that problem.

    I am judging neither way - I wasn't there.

    Yata hey
    Even with the complaint callthe stopwas unwarranted. Someone saying someone else looks creepy is not a valid reason to detain someone.

    Would you agree with poice police stopping you and interviewing you andyour wife/girlfriend because someone called in and said you lookedlike a woman beater?
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    It was racial profiling by the caller. The cops have to respond, or else they get bashed on for not showing up when a call comes in. There's also the fact that the person who took the call should've asked if a crime was being committed or at least what was so creepy about the person. Since you came out clean they should've apologized excessively then had a talk with the caller about how they wasted your time, their time, and the dispatcher's time since a real call could've been bumped by their call.

    Same call could go to the cops are someone OC'ing. You are doing everything legal, and people still think you are up to no good. They stupidly call the cops when no crime has been committed, and everyone's time has been wasted.

    I'd probably have a talk with the chief about getting detained without being given a reason for it. That was just shi...crappy of the officer. Very happy I don't support their FOP after everything I've heard about them. Also happy I got my lifetime license before moving to Hammond so I don't have to rely on them.

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    id file a complaint.. he had no reason to stop you.. creepy isnt a crime.. sue their a**es

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    I am unsure how new you are to the cite but I am an LEO in Lake County. We are public servants. If someone thinks a vehicle or a person is suspicious and they call the police. We have to respond and check on the person or vehicle. It is the same thing as people calling in drunk drivers. Believe me I get a lot of calls about suspicious people and vehicles. Most of the time there nothing wrong with the person or vehicle. But there is those times when people call in suspicious things and I have made felony arrests for drugs and warrants after checking on them. I would not hold anything against that Officer or his department. He was doing his job. As far as taking your pistol, that is pure Officer Safety. I am not saying that you look suspicious or the complainant had a valid reason to believe you’re suspicious. Just that you have to look at it from the Officer’s eyes. Believe me it is not an easy job. It sucks when you pull over an 80 year old woman because someone behind her believed she was drunk. If you are dispatched to call and you do not respond you are looking at a write up and possible suspension. I know I am going to get bashed for this but I look at things from both sides

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    Regular Member Beau's Avatar
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    HMDGLOCK wrote:
    I am unsure how new you are to the cite but I am an LEO in Lake County. We are public servants. If someone thinks a vehicle or a person is suspicious and they call the police. We have to respond and check on the person or vehicle. It is the same thing as people calling in drunk drivers. Believe me I get a lot of calls about suspicious people and vehicles. Most of the time there nothing wrong with the person or vehicle. But there is those times when people call in suspicious things and I have made felony arrests for drugs and warrants after checking on them. I would not hold anything against that Officer or his department. He was doing his job. As far as taking your pistol, that is pure Officer Safety. I am not saying that you look suspicious or the complainant had a valid reason to believe you’re suspicious. Just that you have to look at it from the Officer’s eyes. Believe me it is not an easy job. It sucks when you pull over an 80 year old woman because someone behind her believed she was drunk. If you are dispatched to call and you do not respond you are looking at a write up and possible suspension. I know I am going to get bashed for this but I look at things from both sides
    Fail + Facepalm = Your Post. Okay I'm done being an ass now.

    This officer was not doing his job. That is unless you consider violating rights as part of LE's job description.

    I do agree that an officer can respond to this call. At this point it would be a contact, read consensual, encounter. In this encounter an officer can approach a person and engage in consensual conversation in order to try and obtain information form the individual. In this encounter the individual is free to walk away at any time.

    What this officer did was skip step 1 and proceed directly to step 2, detainment. Unlawful detainment at that.

    The OP notified LE that he was carrying. Which he did not have to do. After doing so the officer illegally seized his property, placed him in restraint, and ran checks on his personal property. The officer did this with no reasonable suspicion the OP had, was or was about to commit a crime. As I said before, looking creepy is not a legal reason for being detained.

    As for "officer safety"....................

    The officer had no right to disarm the OP. He was not suspected of having committed a crime. He was not under arrest. The only crime here was done by the officer. Illegal detainment. Illegal seizure of property.

    I'll end with this.

    How is it that your desire to return home safely trumps my desire to return home safely? How does your desire to return home safely excuse violations of our 2nd and 4th amendment rights?


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    Regular Member Beau's Avatar
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    NCjones: Really? That is all you have to contribute?? I sincerely hope you did not strain yourself to bad while producing such a well thought out and witty reply. Please feel free to no longer contribute in this forum.
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    Solution:

    "911 what is your emergency?"

    "I'd like to report a person that looks creepy."

    "What is the creepy looking person doing?"

    "Drinking coffee."

    "...and?"

    "Well, you know, I just think they should be checked out or something."

    "Are you serious? If you pull this stunt again you will be arrested. Are we clear?"

    "Umm... yes. Sorry."



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    HMDGLOCK wrote:
    I am unsure how new you are to the cite but I am an LEO in Lake County. We are public servants. If someone thinks a vehicle or a person is suspicious and they call the police. We have to respond and check on the person or vehicle. It is the same thing as people calling in drunk drivers. Believe me I get a lot of calls about suspicious people and vehicles. Most of the time there nothing wrong with the person or vehicle. But there is those times when people call in suspicious things and I have made felony arrests for drugs and warrants after checking on them. I would not hold anything against that Officer or his department. He was doing his job. As far as taking your pistol, that is pure Officer Safety. I am not saying that you look suspicious or the complainant had a valid reason to believe you’re suspicious. Just that you have to look at it from the Officer’s eyes. Believe me it is not an easy job. It sucks when you pull over an 80 year old woman because someone behind her believed she was drunk. If you are dispatched to call and you do not respond you are looking at a write up and possible suspension. I know I am going to get bashed for this but I look at things from both sides
    I have to agree with what Beau said.

    "...respond(ing) and check(ing) on the person or vehicle." doesn't mean you can detain someone without lawful RAS. RAS of criminal activity is a requirement before detaining someone. If you don't understand that, then you should seek re-training.

    Based on the OP the officer acted in bad faith when he declined to immediately disclose RAS. I can understand first insuring officer safety, but that should be followed by disclosure of RAS upon request as it is a mandatory requirement for him to even stop someone in the first place.

    Further, once it was determined who the person was (providing the officer did actually have RAS, and a complaint call is not it), then the original poster should have been released, rather than run his gun and numbers.

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    There's plenty of creepy looking white guys around calumet and michigan.

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    When I am aweek past due on a haircut and shave, I'm sure I look creepy. Lol, one time I was looking haggard and was a little sleep deprived on top of that and stopped in a convienence store. I was returning from a journey to see my mom and the store was in a bad part of town. There were bars on the windows and the whole deal. When I walked in I was the only white guy. The rest were black and a couple looked like the thug type. I don't know if I gave one of those looks when I walked in, but they all were joking when I opened the door and stopped talking immediatly when I entered and made sure to give me a wide berth. Lol, I'm like 5'8" and a buck 60 on a good day andtheyall werescared of me. It was surreal to say the least.



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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    TehGruu wrote:
    When I am aweek past due on a haircut and shave, I'm sure I look creepy. Lol, one time I was looking haggard and was a little sleep deprived on top of that and stopped in a convienence store. I was returning from a journey to see my mom and the store was in a bad part of town. There were bars on the windows and the whole deal. When I walked in I was the only white guy. The rest were black and a couple looked like the thug type. I don't know if I gave one of those looks when I walked in, but they all were joking when I opened the door and stopped talking immediatly when I entered and made sure to give me a wide berth. Lol, I'm like 5'8" and a buck 60 on a good day andtheyall werescared of me. It was surreal to say the least.

    -Gruu
    People do fear that which they neither know nor understand., at different levels perhaps - you had their attention. Nothing wrong with that.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    TehGruu wrote:
    When I am aweek past due on a haircut and shave, I'm sure I look creepy. Lol, one time I was looking haggard and was a little sleep deprived on top of that and stopped in a convienence store. I was returning from a journey to see my mom and the store was in a bad part of town. There were bars on the windows and the whole deal. When I walked in I was the only white guy. The rest were black and a couple looked like the thug type. I don't know if I gave one of those looks when I walked in, but they all were joking when I opened the door and stopped talking immediatly when I entered and made sure to give me a wide berth. Lol, I'm like 5'8" and a buck 60 on a good day andtheyall werescared of me. It was surreal to say the least.



    -Gruu
    They were probably telling jokes about YOU, or bad mouthing you, until you walked in.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    TehGruu wrote:
    When I am aweek past due on a haircut and shave, I'm sure I look creepy. Lol, one time I was looking haggard and was a little sleep deprived on top of that and stopped in a convienence store. I was returning from a journey to see my mom and the store was in a bad part of town. There were bars on the windows and the whole deal. When I walked in I was the only white guy. The rest were black and a couple looked like the thug type. I don't know if I gave one of those looks when I walked in, but they all were joking when I opened the door and stopped talking immediatly when I entered and made sure to give me a wide berth. Lol, I'm like 5'8" and a buck 60 on a good day andtheyall werescared of me. It was surreal to say the least.

    -Gruu
    They were probably telling jokes about YOU, or bad mouthing you, until you walked in.
    Likely continued to do so after your departure until they had adequately elevated their opinion of their own self-worth.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Task Force 16 wrote:
    TehGruu wrote:
    When I am aweek past due on a haircut and shave, I'm sure I look creepy. Lol, one time I was looking haggard and was a little sleep deprived on top of that and stopped in a convienence store. I was returning from a journey to see my mom and the store was in a bad part of town. There were bars on the windows and the whole deal. When I walked in I was the only white guy. The rest were black and a couple looked like the thug type. I don't know if I gave one of those looks when I walked in, but they all were joking when I opened the door and stopped talking immediatly when I entered and made sure to give me a wide berth. Lol, I'm like 5'8" and a buck 60 on a good day andtheyall werescared of me. It was surreal to say the least.

    -Gruu
    They were probably telling jokes about YOU, or bad mouthing you, until you walked in.
    Likely continued to do so after your departure until they had adequately elevated their opinion of their own self-worth.

    Yata hey
    Lol, probably! I still got a kick out of it though.



    -Gruu

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