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Thread: Confronting unlawful City Ordinance

  1. #1
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    I will be going before the Alpena City Council to address the following unlawful ordinance:

    Sec. 54-2. DISORDERLY CONDUCT

    (a)The following acts shall constitute disorderly conduct, and no person shall:

    (6)Go armed with or have concealed upon his person, a dirk, dagger, sword, PISTOL, air gun, stiletto, metallic knuckles, pocket billie, sand bag, skull cracker, slingshot, razor or other offensive and dangerous weapon or instrument, unless such person is a police officer or night watchman, and is legitimately employed as such.

    Any and all who wish to attend with me and voice their support, or simply sit in as armed open carry support, are asked to do so on Monday, 12-7-2009 at 7:00PM at city hall in downtown Alpena. I will have submitted a resolution to dissolve the above city ordinance, and demand a revision of the ordinance to be written that reflects the governing State laws. I have the State laws that supersede the lower city ordinance and will call for an immediate striking of the ordinance until which time a lawful ordinance can be drawn up by the city attorney.

    I may be contacted by email at: excelltrinity@yahoo.com Please contact me if you plan to attend.


  2. #2
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Welcome to OCDO!

    I cannot be there with you, but sounds like you have the right idea. You could send the City Manager/Attorney a letter/email, but the direct approach is good also.

    Here is one that I sent: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...mp;forum_id=30

    I guess my idea for Salt-Laden Crackers shaped like a Skull cannot be sold in Alpena until this ordinance is struck down. I mean, once they are in a box, wouldn't they be considered "concealed"?
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

  3. #3
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    Welcome,

    Have you OCed around Alpena? My parents have had a cottage on Long Lake forabout 20 years now. I have not had a chance to OC up there yet, as I have not been up there in almost a year.

  4. #4
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    Sheepdog,

    I suppose you already know this, but... Michigan firearms preemption laws prohibit any municipality from making exactly the ordinance you have quoted. I don't know the statute off hand but it was enacted in 1990, so that should make it easy for you to find.

    I bet if you send what you just wrote to the AG, and ask for a QUICK opinion (they have a tendency to take their time over there,) they will tell you that that ordinance is absolutely unlawful. I cannot conceive of a any possible scenario, in fact, where that ordinance could be considered valid under state preemption.

    Bottom line is that state law is on your side, so don't even bring up your own opinion or get bogged down in any other information with the council.

    Let me know how it goes, and if you have any other questions.


  5. #5
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    If you post the contactinfo for the Alpena council person I need to contact, I will email them.

  6. #6
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    American Sheepdog, do you have a business west of town? We may have met.springerdave.

    edit on text.

  7. #7
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    You betchya! No problems yet, but then again I just started. Come on up and we'll get together!
    Long live the Republic!

  8. #8
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    10-4! I've got all the legal stuff on paper from this site and other dissertations from successful city council confrontations here in Michigan. I'm a former police officer, infantry soldier, hostage rescue instructor, and am an NRA instructor. Sadly nobody local, not even the local sportsmans club will show up. Oh well, I'm a loner anyhow.
    Long Live the Republic!

  9. #9
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    springerdave wrote:
    American Sheepdog, do you have a business west of town? We may have met.springerdave.

    edit on text.

    Negative! I have been here 3 years. I'm from Arkansas. I was born here but that's along story. Basically, I am a former police officer (veteran of Katrina), infantry soldier, hostage rescue instructor, and am a certified NRA instructor. If you got a job for me though I would gladly accept! LOL!

  10. #10
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    T Vance wrote:
    If you post the contactinfo for the Alpena council person I need to contact, I will email them.
    Sure friend, It's;
    http://alpena.mi.us/Council/index.htm

    And thank you,
    Long Live the Republic!

  11. #11
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    reidksmith wrote:
    Sheepdog,

    I suppose you already know this, but... Michigan firearms preemption laws prohibit any municipality from making exactly the ordinance you have quoted. I don't know the statute off hand but it was enacted in 1990, so that should make it easy for you to find.

    I bet if you send what you just wrote to the AG, and ask for a QUICK opinion (they have a tendency to take their time over there,) they will tell you that that ordinance is absolutely unlawful. I cannot conceive of a any possible scenario, in fact, where that ordinance could be considered valid under state preemption.

    Bottom line is that state law is on your side, so don't even bring up your own opinion or get bogged down in any other information with the council.

    Let me know how it goes, and if you have any other questions.
    Roger that Patriot! Will post right here for all to see.

  12. #12
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    NOTE: I will be video taping the council session. I have a youtube account that it will be uploaded to. If anyone is interested in visiting my account, I have provided a link to it below. I sure would like to connect with some like minded individuals here in Alpena.
    Long live the Republic!

    http://www.youtube.com/user/futurevent

  13. #13
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    reidksmith wrote:
    Sheepdog,

    I suppose you already know this, but... Michigan firearms preemption laws prohibit any municipality from making exactly the ordinance you have quoted. I don't know the statute off hand but it was enacted in 1990, so that should make it easy for you to find.

    I bet if you send what you just wrote to the AG, and ask for a QUICK opinion (they have a tendency to take their time over there,) they will tell you that that ordinance is absolutely unlawful. I cannot conceive of a any possible scenario, in fact, where that ordinance could be considered valid under state preemption.

    Bottom line is that state law is on your side, so don't even bring up your own opinion or get bogged down in any other information with the council.

    Let me know how it goes, and if you have any other questions.
    Off the top of my head: MCL 123.1102.

  14. #14
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    Hey by the way. How do I put a picture next to my info on the left? I'm into photography and I want to put one there.
    Thanks,
    Sheepdog

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    American Sheepdog wrote:
    Hey by the way. How do I put a picture next to my info on the left? I'm into photography and I want to put one there.
    Thanks,
    Sheepdog
    Nice Vids AS and welcome to OCDO.

    Go to My Account, then to Avatar.

    If you would, please go to My Account, then to Profile to add Michigan to your location. Use the dropdown under State to add Michigan.

  16. #16
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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    American Sheepdog wrote:
    Hey by the way. How do I put a picture next to my info on the left? I'm into photography and I want to put one there.
    Thanks,
    Sheepdog
    Nice Vids AS and welcome to OCDO.

    Go to My Account, then to Avatar.

    If you would, please go to My Account, then to Profile to add Michigan to your location. Use the dropdown under State to add Michigan.

    Got it! Thanks!

  17. #17
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    American Sheepdog wrote:
    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    American Sheepdog wrote:
    Hey by the way. How do I put a picture next to my info on the left? I'm into photography and I want to put one there.
    Thanks,
    Sheepdog
    Nice Vids AS and welcome to OCDO.

    Go to My Account, then to Avatar.

    If you would, please go to My Account, then to Profile to add Michigan to your location. Use the dropdown under State to add Michigan.

    Got it! Thanks!

    Oops! I didn't see that one! Good eyes there high speed!

  18. #18
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    I like this guy. He is interesting!

  19. #19
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    T Vance wrote:
    I like this guy. He is interesting!
    Yeah, I watched a couple of his introductory to "sheep dogging" videos and they seemed good. I had heard of that concept before and I practice it to a limited extent even tho I don't really call it that. I have basically formed alliances with like minded neighbors in case of a SHTF scenario. I'll be watching more of his vids when time permits. His class sounds interesting but its quite aways away for me and money is super tight right now.

  20. #20
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    Off topic, but have you ever eaten at Burton's Last Resort on Long Lake? I highly suggest it. The owner is into guns too.

  21. #21
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    T Vance wrote:
    Off topic, but have you ever eaten at Burton's Last Resort on Long Lake? I highly suggest it. The owner is into guns too.
    No I haven't but I've heard it was a great place to go to. Is the owner on board with OC in his establishment?

  22. #22
    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    I can't be there to support you, but I'll offer my support from out here. Go get'em, Sheepdog!
    "Fault always lies in the same place, my fine babies: with him weak enough to lay blame." - Cort

    Gun control is like trying to reduce Drunk Driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.

    Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare.

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    1776"

    With freedom comes much responsibility. It is for this reason so many are loathe to exercise it.

  23. #23
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    American Sheepdog wrote:
    NOTE: I will be video taping the council session. I have a youtube account that it will be uploaded to. If anyone is interested in visiting my account, I have provided a link to it below. I sure would like to connect with some like minded individuals here in Alpena.
    Long live the Republic!

    http://www.youtube.com/user/futurevent
    I've watched 3 of your vids on there so far. Good stuff. I'm gonna have to look for the poor mans Night vision you mentioned in the third one. Sounds interesting.

  24. #24
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    American Sheepdog wrote:
    T Vance wrote:
    Off topic, but have you ever eaten at Burton's Last Resort on Long Lake? I highly suggest it. The owner is into guns too.
    No I haven't but I've heard it was a great place to go to. Is the owner on board with OC in his establishment?
    Well considering it is a bar/restaurant, from what I have gathered, it seems like they make most of their profit from the sale of alcohol. So I would suggest that you OC in there if you are going to carry.

    Personally I have only met the guy once. But some VERY close friends of mine in that area frequent the place often. It was actually in that restaurant where my friends invited me to the CPL class they were taking. Myself and the owner talked guns for about 20 minutes. His brother had just bought an SKS a few days earlier.

    I'm not sure what his take on OC is, but I'd think he wouldn't have a problem with it as long as he was informed about it in a polite manner. I'll be OCing up there next time I come up.

  25. #25
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    T Vance wrote:
    American Sheepdog wrote:
    T Vance wrote:
    Off topic, but have you ever eaten at Burton's Last Resort on Long Lake? I highly suggest it. The owner is into guns too.
    No I haven't but I've heard it was a great place to go to. Is the owner on board with OC in his establishment?
    Well considering it is a bar/restaurant, from what I have gathered, it seems like they make most of their profit from the sale of alcohol. So I would suggest that you OC in there if you are going to carry.

    Personally I have only met the guy once. But some VERY close friends of mine in that area frequent the place often. It was actually in that restaurant where my friends invited me to the CPL class they were taking. Myself and the owner talked guns for about 20 minutes. His brother had just bought an SKS a few days earlier.

    I'm not sure what his take on OC is, but I'd think he wouldn't have a problem with it as long as he was informed about it in a polite manner. I'll be OCing up there next time I come up.
    I am somewhat confused about the conflicting info on OC without a CPL near schools. I live several blocks from my kids school and I often walk down to meet him. Now, My question is this. since I stand across the street from his school and wait for him to come to me, can I OC without a CPL? I just need some closure on this complicated subject. Also, can I walk into my City Council while OC'ing and give my dissertation? I think I can, but want to make sure.
    Anyone with knowledge on these issues please chime in.
    Thanks.

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