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Thread: chatting at oc get-together - take out your gun?

  1. #1
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    Ok, I'm not sure if this is the correct sub forum, but when oc people get together in a public setting, say at a Starbucks, and they're sitting outside, talking oc, or the weather, or football, or whatever, can you take out, or has anyone taken out their gun to show the others what you have? Like I see someone carrying a gun I've beenaching to have and eventually maybe buy, could I ask the owner to let me inspect it? I'd like to see how much it weights, how it fits in my hand, etc. Is this done? Is it frowned upon? Is it better to just chat and ignore each other's weapons? When I'm at the range I go up to people when I see they havesomethingof a gun or rifle that isunusual orbig or small orold or loud that gets my attention I'lladmire from short distancebut not touch it and eventually the owner will say, you wanna shoot it? Hell yeah, I say. Ok, we're not going to shoot anything ata meet, butis it considered bad manners to show off your gun out of the holster in public? I know I wouldn't hesitate to ask if I could handle a gun belonging to another in a private setting like a home, but in public, what say ye?

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    NO! Absolutely NO. Weapons stay holstered at all time until needed and showing is not needed.

    Do this in a safe place like a firing range or what ever after all agree the weapon is cleared.

    Admire, discuss and what you wanna do but do NOT remove from holster. Period.:shock:

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forum.

    No it is not common practice to show your firearms to others. Handling a firearm in such a setting is not just bad form it is unsafe. The purpose of these sort of gatherings or events is to make firearms carry by regular citizens visible. You can certainly ask a person about their carry weapon, but people do not take out a firearm under these circumstances and pass it around.

    Remember, these are self f=defense tools. They are loaded. Taking them out and clearing them to pass around disarms the carrier, and is a generally unsafe practice in most places these events are held. Remember also that at these events there are a lot of people who are not familiar or comfortable about firearms present. Handling the weapons and passing them around will cause a degree of fear and discomfort for these people which is counterproductive to the entire purpose of the gathering.

    If you want to feel a firearm in your hand, you should go someplace appropriate to that activity such as private home, a store or a range.

    Regards
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    SUCH VULGAR WORDS DANG MAN EVERYONE HAS A RIGHT TO ASK QUESTIONS CHILL-OUT DUDE !!

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    I appreciate your attempt to moderate conversations here, but - what I said stands. Any attempts to describe my statements as vulgar will be ignored.

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    I am completely comfortable with whipping out all three. You don't have to look if you don't want to and I'm pretty sure we've all seen one before. Case in point, ******* on the side of a moving subway car in Munich during Oktoberfest. My knife, if you're close enough to me that I stab you in the midst of pulling out my knife then you're probably not someone I care too much about offending. My gun, I'm comfortable enough with it that I know it won't fire unless I squeeze the trigger. Drop the mag, eject the round, and hand it to you with the slide open so you can look at it. There's no threat to you other than your fragile sensibilities.

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    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    TheMrMitch wrote:
    NO! Absolutely NO. Weapons stay holstered at all time until needed and showing is not needed.

    Do this in a safe place like a firing range or what ever after all agree the weapon is cleared.

    Admire, discuss and what you wanna do but do NOT remove from holster. Period.:shock:
    THIS. never unholster in public. it's considered Brandishing.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

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    i cant stand when people ask to see my gun. it happens almost daily and its usually some stupid kid with no trigger discipline or muzzle awareness

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    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    r6-rider wrote:
    i cant stand when people ask to see my gun. it happens almost daily and its usually some stupid kid with no trigger discipline or muzzle awareness
    it's funny when the ladies ask to see it, I tellem I will give them a private showing..:P
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

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    haha i defiantly need to steal that one from you

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    Just adding my thoughts to the original question. Not just no, but HELL NO.

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    I say NO! The more you handle a firearm the more there is a chance for a negligent or accidental discharge. It wouln't be good for you or those around you or open carry in general.

    If you had an AD or ND at the very least it's an embarrassment and at worst death.
    JMHO. Hope this helps.

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    How about showing off a nice firearm that wasn't brought in the holster, but rather unloaded in a gun case? Just a thought.

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    Count me in with the "keep it holstered" crowd.

    Form and safety. Check the VCDL website for their rules about gun handling at events and while working the membership drive booths at gunshows.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    NightOwl wrote:
    How about showing off a nice firearm that wasn't brought in the holster, but rather unloaded in a gun case? Just a thought.
    I'd schedule the show-and-admire session for some other time and place.

    Starbucks and others are creating the atmosphere of a public gathering/cafe sort of place; but I don't think firearms is quite what they have in mind.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  16. #16
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    "Show & Tell" should be held somewhere very private so that no bystanders can see what is going on. If ANYONE sees an unholstered weapon, you are opening yourself up to a Brandishing charge (in Virginia, anyway).

    It isrude, inconsiderate, foolish and seriously lacking in judgement to draw and clear a weapon anywhere other than a "safe direction" and away from curious onlookers. John Q. Public just doesn't understand the clearing procedure and is quite likely to experience a significant emotional event in his Fruit of the Looms or worse, his tick-tocker... It could quit working alltogether at the sight of an unholstered pistol andassume the functionality of a quivering bowl ofJello,AKA: V-fib orVentricular fibrillation.

    We have enoughsheep having apoplexy at the sight of a HOLSTERED weapon! Can you just IMAGINE for a moment:
    Panic in a crowded Starbucks if my Lovely Modern Art Masterpiece (Kimber Ultra Crimson Carry II with the most beautiful Rosewood grips I've EVER seen) were to be seen by MommaSheep and her little lambs? Think about MommaSheep's reaction at the sound ofa slide locking to the rear (after the magazine had been removed, of course) and then seeing it passed from one person to another?

    Not only would I have an interesting conversation with local LE, but in this New Age of OsamaCare, I would also be responsible for the medical bills of the people trampled by MommaSheep and her lambchops as they exited the premises post-haste.

    Yeah... THAT's a GREAT idea... clearing a weapon in a room full of people. Remember when EF Hutton Spoke, EVERYONE LISTENED?

    The sound of a 1911's slide (or most any semi-auto pistol) locking to the rear is rather unmistakeable.

    WTF ARE YOU THINKING???

    Silliness like this is what sets our cause BACK to caveman days, not forward.

    <rant off>

    msc
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
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    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    "Show & Tell" should be held somewhere very private so that no bystanders can see what is going on. If ANYONE sees an unholstered weapon, you are opening yourself up to a Brandishing charge (in Virginia, anyway).

    It isrude, inconsiderate, foolish and seriously lacking in judgement to draw and clear a weapon anywhere other than a "safe direction" and away from curious onlookers. John Q. Public just doesn't understand the clearing procedure and is quite likely to experience a significant emotional event in his Fruit of the Looms or worse, his tick-tocker... It could quit working alltogether at the sight of an unholstered pistol andassume the functionality of a quivering bowl ofJello,AKA: V-fib orVentricular fibrillation.

    We have enoughsheep having apoplexy at the sight of a HOLSTERED weapon! Can you just IMAGINE for a moment:
    Panic in a crowded Starbucks if my Lovely Modern Art Masterpiece (Kimber Ultra Crimson Carry II with the most beautiful Rosewood grips I've EVER seen) were to be seen by MommaSheep and her little lambs? Think about MommaSheep's reaction at the sound ofa slide locking to the rear (after the magazine had been removed, of course) and then seeing it passed from one person to another?

    Not only would I have an interesting conversation with local LE, but in this New Age of OsamaCare, I would also be responsible for the medical bills of the people trampled by MommaSheep and her lambchops as they exited the premises post-haste.

    Yeah... THAT's a GREAT idea... clearing a weapon in a room full of people. Remember when EF Hutton Spoke, EVERYONE LISTENED?

    The sound of a 1911's slide (or most any semi-auto pistol) locking to the rear is rather unmistakeable.

    WTF ARE YOU THINKING???

    Silliness like this is what sets our cause BACK to caveman days, not forward.

    <rant off>

    msc
    That whole rant breaks down to "Think of the children." The beauty of the idea of freedom is that you have the freedom to look away if something bothers you, so the whole "think of the guy with the bad heart or who will sh*t himself" argument can kiss my ----. As for brandishing, brandishing is when you draw your weapon with the intent to instill fear in an individual or the people around you, which is not my intent when I'm allowing someone to look at my piece. If you're not willing to risk pushing the law to it's limit you're never going to win anything. What do you think all of these OC get togethers are for? To incite the question being asked in public where everyone can see.

    And to the guy who says the more you handle a weapon the more you're likely to have an ND, two things. One, no crap, that's like saying "the more you drive the more likely you are to get in a wreck" simply because of the amount of time spent on the road, but I highly doubt we're going to see people spend less time in their vehicles. Two, so far in my military career I've had one ND, and itwas not my fault. Some retard half cocked a machine gun and when I opened the feed tray to clear itthe seer slipped and allowed the bolt to slam forward discharging a round. Other than that I carry and handle a loaded weapon for a year or more that gets slammed around and never have an issue. Most NDs in the military happen because of negligence and ignorance, that's why the Army no longer calls them ADs, they're all NDs. As you all like to say, a gun's a tool, and no matter how long you place it in a chair and let it sit there, it's not going to shoot itself.

    The biggest threat to the movement are not the people who are comfortable with handling their weapon, it's those who aren't.

  18. #18
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    22 years military service, 19 of them as a small arms instructor.

    Brandishing isn't YOUR intent... it is SOMEONE ELSE'S FEELING threatened because of something you did. In Virginia, the only way to prevent a brandishing charge is to NOT draw your weapon from the holster, OR if you are CCing, don't "show your weapon in a threatening manner"

    A guy in Va Beach was charged with brandishing when he was CCing and he pulled his jacket back and "showed" that he was carrying during an arguement with someone else. The other person "FELT" threatened and he was charged. It happens.

    I agree it IS silly with the "feelings" of others. I don't write the laws.

    in 22 years' serivce, I NEVER had an ND. I saw a couple, but it never happened on any range I was running. ND's happen when people do stupid chit or get complacent.

    "half cocked and sear slammed forward"???

    You gotta be kidding, me, right? Was the MG broken? That silly story doesn't hold water. Try telling that story to someone that doesn't work on machine guns.

    Don't go running your mouth unless you KNOW WTF you're talking about. In this situation, you haven't a clue.
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    "show your weapon in a threatening manner"



    in 22 years' serivce, I NEVER had an ND. I saw a couple, but it never happened on any range I was running. ND's happen when people do stupid chit or get complacent.

    "half cocked and sear slammed forward"???

    You gotta be kidding, me, right? Was the MG broken? That silly story doesn't hold water. Try telling that story to someone that doesn't work on machine guns.

    Don't go running your mouth unless you KNOW WTF you're talking about. In this situation, you haven't a clue.
    Really, so you're telling me the sear on a M240B won't wear out from being half-cocked (Which would imply a broken MG would it not?)? That's funny, because that's exactly why we stopped half-cocking the weapon in the first place. Same with the M249. The sear would wear out and the bolt would slip causing a discharge either on it's own or from enough external shock to the weapon, like say bouncing around in a HMMV on a dirt road in the mountains of Afghanistan. EIB, Master Gunner, Armorer, no small arms course worth it's salt still trains soldiers to half cock an open-bolt machine gun and the current FMs specifically forbid it. Being an instructor means squat, every armorer I know (including myself) warns against half-cocking and wearing out the sear. Maybe you're thinking about the M2, now that's a closed bolt MG which doesn't put stress on the sear, can't half cock it though so maybe not.

    Back to the topic at hand with that first quote, "show your weapon in a threatening manner." Here's why your guy in an argument in VA Beach doesn't matter to what the initial poster asked, the guy was in an argument with the guy he showed his weapon to! That's an entirely different situation to me talking with another gun owner who asks to see my piece. Here's a theoretical situation for you, if I'm walking around NC with my M4 on my chest, am I brandishing or OC?

    METT-TC guy, METT-TC.

  20. #20
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    You're right, I didn't have all the info as you did. Half-cock is an unsafe and silly thing to do. HYou got boned by the guy that did it. Are things so bad over there that your weapons aren't getting the required PMS and maintenance?

    You're good to go walking around with your M4. It isn't brandishing until you TOUCH it.

    You CAN legally OC a rifle in VA, just like the black guy did out in AZ (?) at the Obumma thing a few months ago. Just don't go unslinging it. THEN its brandishing. I think we're on the same side, Brother. The laws on brandishing don't make sense to those of us that carry weapons for a living because we know they are just tools. If abused, they can be used to hurt people.

    No different from a hammer to you and me, just more efficient for the job at hand. the sheep aren't going to go ******** if you carry a hammer around on a carpenter's belt.
    Some of them get antsy when they just SEE a firearm because they don't know any better.
    They will probably be a little nervous if someone is carrying the hammer and definitely get upset if someone raises that hammer over their heads or walks around holding it or swinging it.
    They will also get upset if your pistol is out of its holster because they don't know know about "cleared weapons" and "safe directions".

    Unfortunately, the law is written with the "least common denominator" in mind... Sheeple.
    Its all about perception. What responsible gun owners know to be a safe operation can be seen by the sheeple as "something dangerous"

    That's why we only unholster and clear our weapons in private.
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  21. #21
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    ABNinfantryman wrote:
    ...SNIP

    That whole rant breaks down to "Think of the children." The beauty of the idea of freedom is that you have the freedom to look away if something bothers you, so the whole "think of the guy with the bad heart or who will sh*t himself" argument can kiss my white arse. As for brandishing, brandishing is when you draw your weapon with the intent to instill fear in an individual or the people around you, which is not my intent when I'm allowing someone to look at my piece. If you're not willing to risk pushing the law to it's limit you're never going to win anything. What do you think all of these OC get togethers are for? To incite the question being asked in public where everyone can see.

    And to the guy who says the more you handle a weapon the more you're likely to have an ND, two things. One, no crap, that's like saying "the more you drive the more likely you are to get in a wreck" simply because of the amount of time spent on the road, but I highly doubt we're going to see people spend less time in their vehicles. Two, so far in my military career I've had one ND, and itÂ*was not my fault. Some retard half cocked a machine gun and when I opened the feed tray to clear itÂ*the seer slipped and allowed the bolt to slam forward discharging a round. Other than that I carry and handle a loaded weapon for a year or more that gets slammed around and never have an issue. Most NDs in the military happen because of negligence and ignorance, that's why the Army no longer calls them ADs, they're all NDs. As you all like to say, a gun's a tool, and no matter how long you place it in a chair and let it sit there, it's not going to shoot itself.

    The biggest threat to the movement are not the people who are comfortable with handling their weapon, it's those who aren't.
    With all due respect sir ... Your own statements prove the logical errors of your position. You describe a situation where military "professionals" commit a few oversights that end with the ND of a weapon. You then somehow reach the conclusion that because this was a rare incident that it justifies handling a weapon in an uncontrolled environment. The facts of the incident are that the weapon discharged inappropriately while under your control, and while being handled by you. You blame the weapon, the other people who handled it, and even the design of the weapon itself.

    By definition a ND is the result of failing to do something that should have been done or doing something that should not have been done WHILE HANDLING A FIREARM. The fact is YOU are responsible for ANY ND of a weapon that is under your control and being handled by you, no matter the details leading to the incident or the design of the weapon.

    In your closing statement you conclude that the most dangerous threat to the movement is people who are uncomfortable handling weapons. This conclusion dismisses the fact that a person asking to see your weapon likely is asking because they are NOT familiar with it. When attending an OC event a lot of people ask to see the weapons. Many of them may not have a clue as to proper handling of any firearm, let alone yours. You need not look any further that the local gun show to see people who should know better exhibiting poor clearance procedures and even worse muzzle control.

    You have also overlooked the fact that not taking out your carry piece at an OC event has less to do with scaring people and more to do with safety. If you properly place a firearm in a well designed carry holster and never handle it, it will not fire and it is perfectly safe to carry around. The moment you take hold of the grip and begin to draw, the possibility for a discharge (negligent or intentional) begins to increase. Start operating all those neat little levers, slides and buttons and the potential for an ND goes WAY higher than for the same firearm at rest in the holster. Hand the weapon to a person unfamiliar with it is operation and design, and/or unfamiliar with safe or proper firearms handling and you have set the stage for problems. Especially since the clear intent of that individual is specifically to start operating all those neat little levers, slides and buttons.

    Also don't forget all those OTHER people at an OC event who are armed. Remember OC is basically about self defense. These people are not drones on a movie set carrying prop weapons who have no situational awareness. Take out your weapon, allow it to be mishandled in some way that someone across the room does not expect or thinks is a threat to their safety, and how would you expect that person to react? In short you COULD find you are on the wrong end of one or more other firearms in the room.

    No sir. For a lot of reasons you are wrong. NEVER remove your firearm from the holster except in controlled space and under controlled conditions unless you intend to use it in defense of your life or the life of another.

    IT IS NOT APPROPREATE TO UNHOLSTER YOUR CARRY WEAPONS AT OC EVENTS TO SHOW THEM TO OTHERS.

    As for showing off some secondary weapon you may have in a bag someplace, I agree with Citizen. That activity is best done in a less public setting than an OC gathering for many of the same reasons I have already outlined above.

    Regards
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    ABNinfantryman wrote:
    That whole rant breaks down to "Think of the children." The beauty of the idea of freedom is that you have the freedom to look away if something bothers you, so the whole "think of the guy with the bad heart or who will sh*t himself" argument can kiss my white arse. As for brandishing, brandishing is when you draw your weapon with the intent to instill fear in an individual or the people around you, which is not my intent when I'm allowing someone to look at my piece. If you're not willing to risk pushing the law to it's limit you're never going to win anything. What do you think all of these OC get togethers are for? To incite the question being asked in public where everyone can see.
    Brandishing is often described as displaying in a threatening manor. The word brandishing is not always used in statutes. It is often a strict liability offense. Your intent is not taken into account, only the perception based on a reasonable person standard. Removing your weapon from its holster and showing it off is akin to finger banging with a fair chance of sweeping someone with your muzzle when you are at an OC gathering. You are not in a controlled environment.

    Even if you are able to beat the rap, you will not beat the ride and it will be a PR failure. We need to normalize the carry of firearms in public and get the timid to accept us as having the right to do so even if they choose to refrain.

    OC get togethers are to show that we are reasonalbe responsible adults and there is nothing to fear from us. Acting foolish even if it is technically legal will not help our cause and is not welcome behavior.

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    Once I perform a squeeze-check and drop Mr. Springfield into the SERPA, the only time Mr. Springfield is taken out of the holster is if he has to "speak".

    Unholstering in public for most any other reason is stupid and irresponsible.
    Bitka Sve Rešava!
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    Military service in country has no relationship to civilian laws and perceptions, the most important being perception in this case. We are out to improve our image not destroy it through careless and poorly thought out responses. The public relations war is an every day thing.

    Handling of guns in public for whatever reason is to be avoided. In Virginia, there are some circumstances wherein one could be charged with brandishing w/o ever touching their gun. Know the laws of your state.

    Yata hey
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    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Glock34 wrote:
    TheMrMitch wrote:
    NO! Absolutely NO. Weapons stay holstered at all time until needed and showing is not needed.

    Do this in a safe place like a firing range or what ever after all agree the weapon is cleared.

    Admire, discuss and what you wanna do but do NOT remove from holster. Period.:shock:
    THIS. never unholster in public. it's considered Brandishing.
    i'm asking because i'm genuinely curious.
    why is there no magazine in the fire arm or round in the chamber???


    back on topic, i have shown my pistol but it is in private in a safe setting, I have been asked at gun shows and other places. my answer is always that we need to go somewhere safe and private.

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