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Thread: MONTANA BEHIND THE POWER CURVE ON CARRY RIGHTS

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    http://www.opencarry.org/images/restaurantcarrymap.png

    look at the map and the colors - Montana is behind the power curve on this issue - needs to be corrected in 2011 - start contacting your local rep's now and write the governor, the ag, MSSA, and MRPA

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    This map, who ever did it is giving false information with the map. It says Open Carry Required.

    So, this information is false, but cause it is not required as one can carry concealed or open out away from cities which as also been discussed many times here.

    Behind the power curve, I think not.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    JBinMontana wrote:
    This map, who ever did it is giving false information with the map. It says Open Carry Required.

    So, this information is false, but cause it is not required as one can carry concealed or open out away from cities which as also been discussed many times here.

    Behind the power curve, I think not.
    Well I'd say at least behind the curve - state preemption contains a number of exceptions not really acceptable. See below.

    Further, the map referred to seems quite accurate -

    Montana Code 45-8-328 Carrying concealed weapon in prohibited place

    (1) A person commits the offense of carrying a concealed weapon in a prohibited place if the person
    purposely or knowingly carries a concealed weapon in:
    (a) portions of a building used for state or local government offices and related areas in the building that
    have been restricted;
    (b) a bank, credit union, savings and loan institution, or similar institution during the institution's normal
    business hours. It is not an offense under this section to carry a concealed weapon while:
    (i) using an institution's drive-up window, automatic teller machine, or unstaffed night depository; or
    (ii) at or near a branch office of an institution in a mall, grocery store, or other place unless the person is
    inside the enclosure used for the institution's financial services or is using the institution's financial services.
    (c) a room in which alcoholic beverages are sold, dispensed, and consumed .....etc.

    I believe that parks are also restricted locations also.

    If you have a cite that modifies the above, we'd like to see it.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    JBinMontana wrote:
    This map, who ever did it is giving false information with the map. It says Open Carry Required.

    So, this information is false, but cause it is not required as one can carry concealed or open out away from cities which as also been discussed many times here.

    Behind the power curve, I think not.
    JBinMontana:

    the map is related to booze andlimited torestaurant carry





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    Grapeshot wrote:
    JBinMontana wrote:
    This map, who ever did it is giving false information with the map. It says Open Carry Required.

    So, this information is false, but cause it is not required as one can carry concealed or open out away from cities which as also been discussed many times here.

    Behind the power curve, I think not.
    Well I'd say at least behind the curve - state preemption contains a number of exceptions not really acceptable. See below.

    Further, the map referred to seems quite accurate -

    Montana Code 45-8-328 Carrying concealed weapon in prohibited place

    (1) A person commits the offense of carrying a concealed weapon in a prohibited place if the person
    purposely or knowingly carries a concealed weapon in:
    (a) portions of a building used for state or local government offices and related areas in the building that
    have been restricted;
    (b) a bank, credit union, savings and loan institution, or similar institution during the institution's normal
    business hours. It is not an offense under this section to carry a concealed weapon while:
    (i) using an institution's drive-up window, automatic teller machine, or unstaffed night depository; or
    (ii) at or near a branch office of an institution in a mall, grocery store, or other place unless the person is
    inside the enclosure used for the institution's financial services or is using the institution's financial services.
    (c) a room in which alcoholic beverages are sold, dispensed, and consumed .....etc.

    I believe that parks are also restricted locations also.

    If you have a cite that modifies the above, we'd like to see it.

    Yata hey
    Yes, Montana is behind the power curve in many areas as you show above in Montana code .....

    1. No carry on trains - even though Congress recently passed we can carry trains - AMTRAK - which runs East to West all across Montana

    2. No carry in banks is aMT problem not a federal law the MT Sheriff and Peace Officer Association along with individual Sheriffs and County Attorneys lied about in the Spring of 2009 when HB 228 was being passed. They should lose their jobs for lying to the Reps in Helena and for lying to the general public.

    3. It is a MTproblem not a federal law we cannot carry in city county state public buildings - like Police, Sheriff, County Clerk, Drivers License, Chamber of Commerce, County Courthouse, City Hall, Bus Offices, city parks in some towns, etc

    4. It is a MT problem former felonies can not carry after they have completed their sentencing requirements, whatever they maybe as per the courts.

    5. It is a MT problem we cannot eat in Apple Bees, Outback, Casino's, etc because of booze even though we do not drink ourselves unless we go unarmed or open carry with the permission of the owner or manager - it is illegal to conceal carry.

    Need to change this in the 2011 session but need to vote out in NOV 2010, the Commies, Nazis, Fascist, Socialist Reps that went to Helena in 2009 along with voting out Commie, Nazis, Fascist, Socilaist Sheriffs, County Attorneys, State Attorney, Judges, Mayors, County Commissioners, Councilman/woman ...... they may not carry the partY cards but if they think like them they are one or they are fools/morons and need to go anyway.All thosein 2009 that vote against HB 228 in Helena and made statements against HB 228need to be voted out of office in 2010.

    Montana Citizens need to continue to organize and rally now to keep the flow against the current Commies, Nazis, Fascist, and Socialists in power off balance until NOV 2010 then vote these low life's out of office

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    JBinMontana wrote:
    This map, who ever did it is giving false information with the map. It says Open Carry Required.

    So, this information is false, but cause it is not required as one can carry concealed or open out away from cities which as also been discussed many times here.

    Behind the power curve, I think not.
    Well I'd say at least behind the curve - state preemption contains a number of exceptions not really acceptable. See below.

    Further, the map referred to seems quite accurate -

    Montana Code 45-8-328 Carrying concealed weapon in prohibited place

    (1) A person commits the offense of carrying a concealed weapon in a prohibited place if the person
    purposely or knowingly carries a concealed weapon in:
    (a) portions of a building used for state or local government offices and related areas in the building that
    have been restricted;
    (b) a bank, credit union, savings and loan institution, or similar institution during the institution's normal
    business hours. It is not an offense under this section to carry a concealed weapon while:
    (i) using an institution's drive-up window, automatic teller machine, or unstaffed night depository; or
    (ii) at or near a branch office of an institution in a mall, grocery store, or other place unless the person is
    inside the enclosure used for the institution's financial services or is using the institution's financial services.
    (c) a room in which alcoholic beverages are sold, dispensed, and consumed .....etc.

    I believe that parks are also restricted locations also.

    If you have a cite that modifies the above, we'd like to see it.

    Yata hey

    Another MT problem not allowed to carry at public meeting (town hall, city council, county commissioners, etc.), public events/ gatherings (rodeo, football, basketball, baseball, etc) unless a firearms related,etc

    Another MT problem not allowed to have gatherings of armed men/women for such things like the IdahoOpen Carry picnic'sin parks with families (many other States canhave these armed picnics too)

    Note: Many (if not nearly all) MT cities do not allow carry in public parks !

    Many things Montana needs to correct to be full Citizens like in Idaho along with several other States and not partial Subjects / Govt Slaves like in Kalifornia and the North Eastern Block States along with of course the UK / England.

    Apathy seems to bethe biggest problem.

    Nov 2010 elections, are coming fast, start organzing now across the entire State of Montana. Email, letter, phone call, fax, personal visits, etc to the governor, ag, mayors, sheriffs, police chiefs, other govt state - county - city attorneys, your local reps in Helena that live in your area, etc or continue to live like the Subjects in Kalifonia, North Eastern Block States along with of course the UK / England - burying one;s head in the sand or elsewhere does not make the problems go away.

    Why does not the elected, hired,and appointedpublic servant govt workers from the governor on down to the lowest decision makers in govt state county cityin MT not trust the people of MT whom elected, hired, andhelp appointedalong with pay their wages not trust the people of MT ? Why ?





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    With all due Respect , are you baseing all those areas on thatone law, MCA: 45-8-328 ?

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    MT GUNNY wrote:
    With all due Respect , are you baseing all those areas on thatone law, MCA: 45-8-328 ?
    MT Gunny and JBinMontana, I may not always live in Montana, but it is home for me more than any other State in the USA, plus lots of people I know from East to West.

    I do see a lot of apathy in all my travels everywhere, people have just given up or just do not care.

    Montana has come a long ways since the mid 1990's concealed and open carry laws and did a good job in the Spring of 2009 improving some situations. Hopefully, there will be surge starting soon in Montana and continuing into the elections of NOV 2010 then the 2011 session in Helena will hopefully be much more productive - fixing all or at least most of the problems listed above. Along with other items: such as - NO SSN's on CWP's State wide in all counties, NO SSN's for Hunting, Fishing, Trapping, etc, full funding for ranges using Licenses, increase in the number of Wolf kill permits along with Mountain Lions and Bears to assist in bringing back the Elk populations, increase in the Buffalo kill permits

    +++++++++++++++++++++++

    Many Montana Citizens across Montana from Glendive, Miles City, Billings, Lewistown, Glasgow, Red Lodge, Bozeman, Helena, Butte, and Missoula areas of Montana.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++

    Numerousarticles from about 1995 to the present.


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    Gary Marbut, President of MSSA, Gun Laws of Montana Book edition 2007 and 2009.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++

    http://data.opi.state.mt.us/bills/mca_toc/45_8_3.htm


    Table of Contents

    TITLE 45. CRIMES
    CHAPTER 8. OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC ORDER

    Part 3. Weapons
    Back Up One Level in Table of Contents

    45-8-301. Uniformity of interpretation.
    45-8-302. Definitions.
    45-8-303. Possession or use of machine gun in connection with a crime.
    45-8-304. Possession or use of machine gun for offensive purpose.
    45-8-305. Presumption of offensive or aggressive purpose.
    45-8-306. Repealed.
    45-8-307. Exceptions.
    45-8-308. Repealed.
    45-8-309. Repealed.
    45-8-310. through reserved.
    45-8-313. Unlawful possession of firearm by convicted person.
    45-8-314. Lifetime firearms supervision of certain convicted persons.
    45-8-315. Definition.
    45-8-316. Carrying concealed weapons.
    45-8-317. Exceptions.
    45-8-318. Possession of deadly weapon by prisoner or youth in facility.
    45-8-319. Repealed.
    45-8-320. Repealed.
    45-8-321. Permit to carry concealed weapon.
    45-8-322. Application, renewal, permit, and fees.
    45-8-323. Denial of renewal -- revocation of permit.
    45-8-324. Appeal.
    45-8-325. Permittee change of county of residence -- notification to sheriffs and chief of police.
    45-8-326. Immunity from liability.
    45-8-327. Carrying concealed weapon while under influence.
    45-8-328. Carrying concealed weapon in prohibited place -- penalty.
    45-8-329. Concealed weapon permits from other states recognized -- advisory council.
    45-8-330. Exemption of concealed weapon permittee from federal handgun purchase background check and waiting period.
    45-8-331. Switchblade knives.
    45-8-332. Definitions.
    45-8-333. Reckless or malicious use of explosives.
    45-8-334. Possession of destructive device.
    45-8-335. Possession of explosives.
    45-8-336. Possession of silencer.
    45-8-337. Possession of unregistered silencer or of bomb or similar device prima facie evidence of unlawful purpose.
    45-8-338. reserved.
    45-8-339. Carrying firearms on train -- penalty.
    45-8-340. Sawed-off firearm -- penalty.
    45-8-341. Repealed.
    45-8-342. Repealed.
    45-8-343. Firing firearms.
    45-8-344. Use of firearms by children under fourteen prohibited -- exceptions.
    45-8-345. Criminal liability of parent or guardian -- prosecution.
    45-8-346. through reserved.
    45-8-351. Restriction on local government regulation of firearms.
    45-8-352. through reserved.
    45-8-360. Establishment of individual licensure.
    45-8-361. Possession or allowing possession of weapon in school building -- exceptions -- penalties -- seizure and forfeiture or return authorized -- definitions.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    various city rulesacross Montanaincluding Bozeman and Billings

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    40 plus years of around the world working with theirmilitary, civilian, and just drinking buckets of various forms of tea and coffee with locals.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Prepare and get others prepared for the elections of November 2010 to turn this Nation back to the path of being a Republic not a democracy (note the word democracy is not mentioned anywhere in the original documents of this Country only the word Republic - Check out the wordsof the Pledge of Allegiance


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Jf3MQpffBc&feature=PlayList&p=29A 7E6E1B05FC6B6&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL& amp;index=2
    John Wayne and the Pledge of Allegiance



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZBTyTWOZCM&feature=related
    January 14, 1969 -A must for all to watch, correction a must for all Real AMERICAN'S
    Red Skelton's Pledge of Allegiance




    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sekHkR5BKOY&feature=PlayList&p=29A 7E6E1B05FC6B6&index=10
    John Wayne "America Why I Love Her"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaPA8fGeRUc&feature=fvw
    John Wayne and Davy Crockett on The Republic, Right and Wrong, Standing Up

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6Y3SMMrVJs
    John Wayne - We know they were Hero's ! What are we ?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fuzLTrwVbc&feature=related
    John Wayne - The Hyphen - the so called the Hyphen - American

    Ivisited and paid my respects to John Wayne on Sunday 22 Nov 2009, he is buried in Newport Beach, California. John Wayne 1907 - 1979. An AMERICAN.




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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTRe5xDLfXw

    the U.S. Constitution is NOT a living document

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz5GLoX-fCU

    In My Land

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B93yn0O35Cw&NR=1

    Thomas Jefferson

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    http://www.progunleaders.org/AG/

    Sent on the letterhead of the Montana Shooting Sports Association
    (Update, november 6, 2007 - no reply yet from the AG.)



    September 24, 2007


    The Honorable Mike McGrath
    Attorney General of Montana
    Justice Building
    215 N. Sanders
    Helena, Montana 59620

    Dear Mike,

    Greetings from Missoula.

    This letter ends with a request for action on your part. Please read it through.

    In the past ten years, I have graduated 1,406 Montanans from firearms safety classes that generate a credential allowing these students to apply for a Montana concealed weapon permit (CWP) pursuant to 45-8-321(3) M.C.A.

    In all of these classes, I have addressed how a person with a CWP and carrying a firearm should act if stopped by a law enforcement officer. I tell my students that law enforcement personnel have sufficiently stressful lives, and that a legal gun carrier should try to avoid adding to that stress. As a courtesy to the officer, I say to my students, the person stopped should offer the officer his or her CWP credential as the least stressful way to cue the officer both that the person has a firearm, and that the person is a sheriff-certified "good guy," having paid to get a background check and personal references checked, and having completed the requisite firearms safety training.


    .......... open the link above to read the entire letter and comments

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



    http://www.progunleaders.org/leo/



    Dear Montana Officer,

    I am a member of the International Association of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors. I also train civilians in Montana to qualify them to apply for Montana concealed weapon permits (CWP). I have graduated 1,406 Montanans from such classes in the past decade.

    That's what I want to hear from you about. I want to hear from officers who actually work the streets and highways in Montana about what I teach my students. From this input I will adjust this standard about what is taught to CWP students in Montana.


    ...... open the link above and read the entire letter

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    Another are dealing with "Arm's" the State of Montana needs to fix in 2011

    http://www.progunleaders.org/university/

    Analysis

    The Montana University System and FirearmsAuthority, Policy, Discussion and Conclusions

    © by Gary Marbut*, 2008



    I. Introduction


    This paper will discuss the treatment of firearms by the Montana university system, the authorities available, the policies applied, discussion of the reasonableness of any regulatory effort, and conclusions.

    Excluded from this discussion will be laws and policies relating to regulating campus security personnel and the firearms they are allowed to carry.

    In the wake of the tragedy at Virginia Tech, there is renewed interest in the role of firearms on university and college campuses, and in regulation of firearms on campus. This is an issue of national interest. University and college administrators desire to make campuses as safe as possible for students and employees, and may have a legal duty to do so. Some believe that adopting campus policies limiting or banning firearms will make campuses safer for everyone. Others believe that those intending Virginia Tech-type assaults will not be deterred by mere campus policies, the only effect of which will be to insure a defenseless pool of unarmed victims incapable of mounting effective resistance to mayhem.

    This has been a matter of policy debate in Utah for several years, and is the subject of proposed legislation in Virginia, South Dakota, Arizona and other states. What is the status of this discussion in Montana?



    II. Authority


    Montana Constitution. The chief controlling authority in Montana is the Montana Constitution. The right of individuals to bear arms in Montana is secured from government intrusion by the people of Montana with a clear statement at Article II, Section 12 of the Montana Constitution. It is worth repeating that declaration of right here in full:

    Section 12. Right to bear arms. The right of any person to keep or bear arms in defense of his own home, person, and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall not be called in question, but nothing herein contained shall be held to permit the carrying of concealed weapons.

    Several points are worth noting about this declared right.

    1) The Montana Supreme Court has said that the individual rights reserved by the people to themselves in the Montana Constitution are specifically a direct bar to government actors. (St. v. Long, 216 M 65, 700 P2d 153, 42 St. Rep. 643 (1985))

    2) There is no question but what the Montana university system is a government entity - a creation of government -, and that its employees and managers are government actors. It is funded by government and its structure and activities are determined and governed by Montana law, including the Montana Constitution. The university system exists only as authorized by law, perhaps an exact definition of a government entity.

    3) The wording of the right to bear arms in the Montana Constitution is unchanged since the adoption of the territorial constitution in 1884 and the statehood constitution in 1889, including with the Montana constitutional revision in 1972.

    4) The right to bear arms in Montana is a personal and individual right under the Montana Constitution, and no sort of right of government as is sometimes argued about the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

    5) The right to bear arms clearly contemplates the right of "any person" to defend himself or herself, and to defend their home, whatever their home may be.

    6) The right to bear arms does not include a right to carry concealed weapons, defined in the law as concealed by an article of clothing, a practice in Montana that is a privilege granted by the Legislature.

    7) The right to self defense and the right to possess the necessary tools for that purpose is well-supported by other provisions in the Declaration of Rights in the Montana Constitution, including Sections 3, 4, and 10. [1]

    The Montana Constitution says at Article X, Section 9:



    ........ open the link above to read the entire letter

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    http://www.progunleaders.org/

    All Montana Citizens should know this information by heart - chapter and verse - every ounce of the verses and scripture ....



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    Regular Member MT GUNNY's Avatar
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    You didnt answer the Question! I am not questioning your patriotism!

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    MT GUNNY wrote:
    With all due Respect , are you baseing all those areas on thatone law, MCA: 45-8-328 ?

    No, not in whole but only in part and all other listed above and others not listed.

    Do you think - Montana laws are good enough ? or need to be changed ?

    To follow the Supreme Law of the Land the U.S. Constitution and the 2A - RKBA shall not be infringed. Along with following to the letter the Montana Constitution on the RKBA.

    Do you think open AND conceal carry of handguns, rifles, shotguns, tomahawks, knives, etc should be allowed on trains and college campus ? in eating establishments, bars, and casinos' ? in all public building and on all public property city, county, state, and federal ? in all city parks for picnics ? in all banks, savings loan, etc ? former felony's should not have their 2A rights restricted ?

    Do you agree or disagree that SSN's should not be on CWP, hunting, fishing, etc licenses ?

    Do you agree a CWP should not be required to carry concealed in the city limits ? a.k.a Alaska and Vermont .... which do you like better and why - Alaska or Vermont conceal carry law ?

    Do you agree or disagree that Peace Officers should not disarm Citizens whether open or concealed carry without justification, blanket use of Officer Safety is not justification under the 4th Amendment ? Do you agree that someone shouldnot be Peace Officerif he/she cannot stand alone in the presence of one or more Armed Citizens ?

    Do you agree or disagree that Citizens should be able to carry handguns, rifles, shotguns, tomahawks, knives, etc to rodeos, baseball, football, basketball, city council meetings, county commissioners meetings, in state meeting buildings in Helena, and the governors office ?

    Did you go hear Sheriff Mack speak when he was up in your part of Montana back this last summer ? Have you read Sheriff Mack's books ?

    Do you agree with what SheriffJoe Arpaio does in AZ as a Sheriff ? Do you think Montana Sheriffs should do the same ?

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...+a&aqi=g10

    If you show up December 12, 2009 in Billings MT for Sheriff Mack's presentation, I will personally buy your supper, anywhere in Billings - you name the location and you name your meal.

    I was answering your question direct with my previous answers - all of this discussion by all on this thread is about Patriotism - the Bill of Rights, 2A, open and concealed carry, etc ......... everything on this thread is about Patriotism.

    I am an USA American Patriot, not a Commie, Nazis, Facist, Socialist, Liberal Patriot.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aEg2...L&index=19

    when you watch the above - remember these words were said in 1960 - 49 years ago - nearly a half a century ago - this is aTV interview of John Wayne about the State of the Nation in 1960, what do you think he would say about today ?

    I look forward to reading your responses to my questions above.










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    IDAHO COWBOY wrote:
    I look forward to reading your responses to my questions above.

    In addition to being a nut, you have a snotty attitude and act as if people here must hop to your demands.



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    Regular Member MT GUNNY's Avatar
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    You are barking up the wrong tree! This thread started out to about a map and how you think it means Montanans cant carry in a restaurant.

    Why are you spilling a bunch of Patriotic stuff that we all agree on? We all now the Problems out there. I for one do my part! So don't sit there on your high falutting Horse and talk down to me! Stopbeing the problem here and start being a part of the solution!How many people do you have to Piss off before you realise we are all on the same side!

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    Tomahawk wrote:
    IDAHO COWBOY wrote:
    I look forward to reading your responses to my questions above.

    In addition to being a nut, you have a snotty attitude and act as if people here must hop to your demands.

    Tomahawk - you had your chance to state your position or positions several days ago, you failed to do so in any area not even on one topic. All of your posts are just agreeing with this and that and calling people different names. Child like indeed or a troll, as I stated before. My last response to you ever, not worth anyone's time.

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    MT GUNNY wrote:
    You are barking up the wrong tree! This thread started out to about a map and how you think it means Montanans cant carry in a restaurant.

    Why are you spilling a bunch of Patriotic stuff that we all agree on? We all now the Problems out there. I for one do my part! So don't sit there on your high falutting Horse and talk down to me! Stopbeing the problem here and start being a part of the solution!How many people do you have to Piss off before you realise we are all on the same side!
    What tree are you talking about - what is the name of your correct andwrong trees ?

    Yes, I posted the map from this web site, you statement is partly correct and partly incorrect - the maps points out (not my opinion although I doagree with the map IAW Montana Law) restaurant carry with booze under the roof requires open carry if approved by management / owner or no carry and it is illegal to carry concealed. I realize some in Montana think that they can based on phone calls to the AG per their posts, but many MT Sheriffs and County Attorney's do not agree with the posts on this subject nor does anyone have anything in wiriting from the MT AG like a letter or even a piece of toilet paper or napkin.

    You are the first one that mention the word "Patriotic, Patriotism, etc", not me.

    You asked a question, I posted direct answers to your question. Maybe you did or did not agree with my answer but that is my answer or answers. So you did not think I answered you question even though I did. So, I answered you question again and asked you some questions - so you are not happy ? why or why not ?

    Re-read my answers, where did I talk down to you ? My answer to the question no where. Your just trying to sling mud when there is no mud sling,a tactic in interviews by some Peace Officers or trolls on the internet. Some of your previous do not reflect this but some of your previous posts do reflect this.

    This thread started off with one gap in Rights then another person posted more gaps in Rights then I posted more gaps in Rights - all related to Montana. So you do not like discussing gaps or someone pointing out the gaps in the Rights in the State Montana ? Do you just want the status quo ?

    I am fairly sure we are not all on the same side, esp if we do not agree there are many gaps in Rights in the State of Montana, esp in regard to open and concealed carry in Montana along with the 2A and Montana Constitution .... and ... apathy .... we are not willing to admit, discuss, and try to change this situation by election of True Americans to offices at all levels of government then to e-mail, letter, fax, and phone this elected Reps to ensure we pass laws IAW the U.S. and Montana Constitution.

    I asked simple straight forward questions, merelyyes or no answer, of course you could have expanded beyond yes or no if you wanted too.

    I am sure ofthis - one can only be an USA AmericanPatriot if he/she fully without exception supports The U.S. Constitution Bill of Rights - the first ten amendments. Which the Second Amendmentif used as perceived by our forefathers makes the 20,000 gun laws in the USA illegal.

    Patriotism, the U.S. Constitution, Second Amendment, The Pledge, etc are all rolled into one, one cannot be without the other, the sum of the parts is the total.

    I amfairly sure you and I are not on the same side, since you did not like mypost and are unwilling to state your own opinion (which is your Right). We must not agree on all or even a few of the topics maybe none of the topics, which is okay with me, but I am not changing my opinion nor can I change the facts of the Constitution(s) or laws.

    Did you support HB 228 passed in the Spring of 2009 ?

    Somein the Kalispell area, have been and keep posting for months on checkingseveral of this issues out,no postings onthe results.



  19. #19
    Regular Member MT GUNNY's Avatar
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    If you could just stick to the main discussion of each thread, Instead of going off on some Tangent, We might be able to accomplish some thing here. I'm not going to answer all your Off topic Questions.

    Originally you made it sound like a Montanans couldn't carry in a restaurant which is false You can, Openly and Concealed. The only ? that needs to be addressed is the Alcohol part!The Process of getting to a Vermont style carry is a Working process. which has been going on for some time and the state "WE" are getting some where. Yes I did support HB228 and the other that passed at the same time.

    You are so Broad in your attempt to answer Questions, you come off as some one making Excuses. Don't get so But hurt about otherspost's, and slow down be Precise. You are wasting alot of time Posting links to laws that every one of us has seen. Its dificult to have a conversation with you because of that.

    I'm not sure what else to tell you, If you feel MT is behind, then do something about it. I can only concentrate on one thing when it comes to politics and that is the Second Amendment. Ive read all the Montana laws regarding Firearms, and when Gary comes up with something else to push through State Congress Ill back it with Emails and everything else, which I did when HB 228 and the other HB 246 which both passed and are law now.


  20. #20
    Regular Member 40s-and-wfan's Avatar
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    How's about this? How about we stick to the true topic at hand and use this forum for the discussion of OPEN CARRY topics such as the name indicates?! I mean after all, this is www.opencarry.org... at least I think it is.
    In a crisis you don't rise to the occasion, but rather default to your level of training.

    Forgiveness is between them and God. It's my job to arrange the meeting.
    -John W. Creasy (Man on Fire)

  21. #21
    Regular Member MT GUNNY's Avatar
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    Im game!

    Some might find this place Interesting http://oathkeepers.org/oath/

  22. #22
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    MT GUNNY wrote:
    If you could just stick to the main discussion of each thread, Instead of going off on some Tangent, We might be able to accomplish some thing here. I'm not going to answer all your Off topic Questions.

    Originally you made it sound like a Montanans couldn't carry in a restaurant which is false You can, Openly and Concealed. The only ? that needs to be addressed is the Alcohol part!The Process of getting to a Vermont style carry is a Working process. which has been going on for some time and the state "WE" are getting some where. Yes I did support HB228 and the other that passed at the same time.

    You are so Broad in your attempt to answer Questions, you come off as some one making Excuses. Don't get so But hurt about otherspost's, and slow down be Precise. You are wasting alot of time Posting links to laws that every one of us has seen. Its dificult to have a conversation with you because of that.

    I'm not sure what else to tell you, If you feel MT is behind, then do something about it. I can only concentrate on one thing when it comes to politics and that is the Second Amendment. Ive read all the Montana laws regarding Firearms, and when Gary comes up with something else to push through State Congress Ill back it with Emails and everything else, which I did when HB 228 and the other HB 246 which both passed and are law now.
    I posted the map from open carry look at the link. I did not state either way, left all to interpret the map on their own. Some did it appears interpret the map correctly.
    It's simple if alcohol is under the roof no matter how many rooms, then illegal to carry concealed, if owner or manager approves can carry open. period. You and others can play with words all you want but it will not hold up in court, this is per many a Sheriff and Chief of Police in Montana. MT AG has issued no opinions, phone calls do not count or e-mail from his or her staff. MT AG opinions are posted on the MT AG web site. MT AGweb site is deceptive inseveral of their statements - misleading, they have been told many times and they have agreed but have not changed their web site - MT AG ispart of the problem not part of thesolutions by actions and non-actions along with incorrect party affiliation.
    I do not care what the rest of you post, I do not give tinker's damn, what you post, makes me no difference I could care less.
    I am a LIFE member of MSSA, along with several others in my family, for over 15 years. Yes, I have written many emails and letters plus phone called in support of MSSA interest items.
    P.S. MSSA lends more toward Alaska than Vermont no permit law. I see issues with both, quirkers in the laws the way written.

  23. #23
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    MT GUNNY wrote:
    If you could just stick to the main discussion of each thread, Instead of going off on some Tangent, We might be able to accomplish some thing here. I'm not going to answer all your Off topic Questions.

    Originally you made it sound like a Montanans couldn't carry in a restaurant which is false You can, Openly and Concealed. The only ? that needs to be addressed is the Alcohol part!The Process of getting to a Vermont style carry is a Working process. which has been going on for some time and the state "WE" are getting some where. Yes I did support HB228 and the other that passed at the same time.

    You are so Broad in your attempt to answer Questions, you come off as some one making Excuses. Don't get so But hurt about otherspost's, and slow down be Precise. You are wasting alot of time Posting links to laws that every one of us has seen. Its dificult to have a conversation with you because of that.

    I'm not sure what else to tell you, If you feel MT is behind, then do something about it. I can only concentrate on one thing when it comes to politics and that is the Second Amendment. Ive read all the Montana laws regarding Firearms, and when Gary comes up with something else to push through State Congress Ill back it with Emails and everything else, which I did when HB 228 and the other HB 246 which both passed and are law now.
    from a friend in Virginia 257435



  24. #24
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    Hey Idaho Cowboy...

    While I relize that this thread has turned into somewhat of a Pi**ing contest, I do argee that removing the prohibition on carring CONCEALED in a restrauant that serves alcohol should be a top priority.It is rediciously funny (and absurd) that any woman can carry in her purse (not to offend any lady here) because of the luggage clasue, but that no man can carry IWB. Same for trains...

    But you state "Another MT problem not allowed to have gatherings of armed men/women for such things like the IdahoOpen Carry picnic'sin parks with families." What is your basis for stating that?
    StaySafe,
    MG
    NRA Certified Instructor

  25. #25
    Regular Member 40s-and-wfan's Avatar
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    If the gathering of armed individuals was illegal as you stated, myself and several others on this forum would have been arrested already. We've met countless times and haven't had a problem with it at all. Even local LEO's know we've done it because I've talked to them about it. They haven't had a single problem with it. I think someone's blowing smoke when they say it's illegal for armed men/women to gather and/or meet. There's nothing illegal about it. The only way I can think of it being illegal is if we were meeting to participate in any kind of illegal activity.
    In a crisis you don't rise to the occasion, but rather default to your level of training.

    Forgiveness is between them and God. It's my job to arrange the meeting.
    -John W. Creasy (Man on Fire)

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