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Thread: What discussing UOC had lead me to

  1. #1
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    My name is steve, I reside in the east bay area and I strongly believe in the right to keep and bear arms. Not too long ago, I have descovered the UOC movement from watching the news about the man who open carried an AR15 in Arizona. Further research has lead me to the ca open carry website. I decided to have an open discussion about UOC with one of my coworkers on a social networking site. The coworker; a former police explorer states that if I open carry, he gaurantees that police will force me on the ground at gun point. I proved this guy wrong by UOCing for 8 hours in public without any encounters from law enforcement. By the end of the day, the discussion gets out of hand. A few weeks later, I was called into my directors office. My director brought in a phsycologist to evaluate my "mental condition". At the same time, I have noticed That a police officer was present during the time of the evaluation. I was told that a few coworkers were concerned for their safety due to the fact that I open carried. After speaking to the phsycologist, I have assured him that I would not cause any physical harm to my employees. After speaking with the phsycologist, my employer; who I've been working working for 2 years decided to give me 2 choices: force to resign or get terminated. All due to the fact that I believed in open carry. I chose to quit and I found another job within 4 days of my resignation. My former coworkers continue to mock and harrass me of the incidents and of my rights.
    Where did I go wrong?

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    You didn't go wrong at all, you did exactly right. You deprived your freedom hating previous employer of your talents and moved on to another who is hopefully more supportive of your rights.

    My one question for you is the name of your previous employer so I can do everything in my power to avoid and encourage others to avoid doing business with them.

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    rpyne wrote:
    You didn't go wrong at all, you did exactly right. You deprived your freedom hating previous employer of your talents and moved on to another who is hopefully more supportive of your rights.

    My one question for you is the name of your previous employer so I can do everything in my power to avoid and encourage others to avoid doing business with them.
    PM sent

  4. #4
    Regular Member demnogis's Avatar
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    Yellowneck86, you did nothing wrong. What you experiienced was the severely distorted anti-rights culture in effect. You desire to exercise your rights in order to protect yourself, so you most certainly must be a threat to yourself and others. *rolleyes*

    I wouldn't expect any less from an area which also contains san leandro and oakland. In all honesty, it sounds like the coworker that couldn't respect, or even attempt to understand your pov was intent on proving his point, especially if things got heated. Sadly, people in this state (as a majority) fail to understand there are consequences for actions, yet in this state the system tends to potect the aggressor.
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

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    Sounds like you had a great case for a wrongful termination law suit. Except, since you quit, I am not sure this is still the case. I hate to hear about situations like this. I hope your new employment is with more correctly enlightened folks. Best of luck!

  6. #6
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bad_ace's Avatar
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    yellowneck86, Welcome to the OCDO forums.

    A few things. You must have worked for a medium/large company. A small company would have just fired you and not given a reason (or blamed it on the economy). A large company has to build a case to fire you, hence the physiologist. I believe there are other details you haven't shared here (and that's ok). A large company would be concerned with a wrongful termination lawsuit. They'd need something a bit more concrete than "he open carries" to fire you. Basically they scared you into quitting.

    I think you're better off. They don't sound like people I'd want to work with.

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    I probably would have first asked the police officer if he was ready to put me on a 5150 (involuntary psychiatric hold), as that would greatly enhance my slander lawsuit against all parties involved. If not, then if I could count on him as a witness, or at the very least, to be my investigating officer if these scumbags get criminal about the whole affair.

    Fairly certain they couldn't have legally prevented you from speaking to the cop first, just as it's a crime to prevent someone calling 911.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    bad_ace wrote:
    A few things. You must have worked for a medium/large company. A small company would have just fired you and not given a reason (or blamed it on the economy). A large company has to build a case to fire you, hence the physiologist. I believe there are other details you haven't shared here (and that's ok). A large company would be concerned with a wrongful termination lawsuit. They'd need something a bit more concrete than "he open carries" to fire you. Basically they scared you into quitting.
    +1. Never quit in this scenario. You always want to get fired. This sounds like a pretty easy wrongful termination case as far as wrongful termination cases go. Not too many people know this, but you can go straight through the state's labor department and avoid having to get a lawyer. It's fairly straight forward.

    Don't feel too badly though, I've had family yell at me for open carrying. They either are going to open their eyes or not.

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    Generally, I refuse to talk religion or politics with coworkers. Not that it's the "right" way to do things, just that I have had my fill of work-place hostility. My preference is to keep it friendly, but strictly business.
    Participant in the Free State Project - "Liberty in Our Lifetime" - www.freestateproject.org
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  10. #10
    Founder's Club Member MudCamper's Avatar
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    Sounds like your coworkers and employer have psychological problems. See this article on the subject: http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-n-z/ragi...elfdefense.htm



  11. #11
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    yellowneck86 wrote:
    rpyne wrote:
    You didn't go wrong at all, you did exactly right. You deprived your freedom hating previous employer of your talents and moved on to another who is hopefully more supportive of your rights.

    My one question for you is the name of your previous employer so I can do everything in my power to avoid and encourage others to avoid doing business with them.
    PM sent
    This changes my point of view. They wanted to get rid of you because if OC were to catch on in a big way, it would eliminate the need for their services.

  12. #12
    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    yellowneck86 wrote:
    My name is steve, I reside in the east bay area and I strongly believe in the right to keep and bear arms. Not too long ago, I have descovered the UOC movement from watching the news about the man who open carried an AR15 in Arizona. Further research has lead me to the ca open carry website. I decided to have an open discussion about UOC with one of my coworkers on a social networking site. The coworker; a former police explorer states that if I open carry, he gaurantees that police will force me on the ground at gun point. I proved this guy wrong by UOCing for 8 hours in public without any encounters from law enforcement. By the end of the day, the discussion gets out of hand. A few weeks later, I was called into my directors office. My director brought in a phsycologist to evaluate my "mental condition". At the same time, I have noticed That a police officer was present during the time of the evaluation. I was told that a few coworkers were concerned for their safety due to the fact that I open carried. After speaking to the phsycologist, I have assured him that I would not cause any physical harm to my employees. After speaking with the phsycologist, my employer; who I've been working working for 2 years decided to give me 2 choices: force to resign or get terminated. All due to the fact that I believed in open carry. I chose to quit and I found another job within 4 days of my resignation. My former coworkers continue to mock and harrass me of the incidents and of my rights.
    Where did I go wrong?
    Your first mistake was talking to the physcologist! Unless you're required to under an employee rule handbook, contract, or some other previously agreed upon circumstance, I would never have allowed them to phyco-analyze me. Second if I had decided to talk to the phycologist, I certainly wouldn't have done so in the presence of law enforcement. I suspect this could have been considered some kind of medical privacy invasion.

    In a nutshell, all the clues were there telling you regardless ofthe meeting's results were they were not going to allow you to stay there any longer. Companies don't bring in police until they are absolutely ready to remove you. The whole meeting was a setup to get you to say something that would protect them in a wrongful termination lawsuit.

    You didn't go wrong with your beliefs to open carry, that's your inalienable right granted to you by your Creator. Where you did go wrong, was you talked and then you quit. When an employer gives you this kind of ultimatum, you stop talking and make them decide what their going to do.

    Finally, when trying to convince someone of any gun right, use facts and data, not emotional arguments or "it's my right". Because for those who are anti-gun, for whatever reason, those arguments will never work. Sometimes facts will, but not always.
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

  13. #13
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Kudos on taking a stand for your rights!!!! I am so glad you found another job so quickly especially when so many are having a hard time.

    Personally I would have let them fire/remove/etc., with the police a mental doc and your employer all there this could have turned into something much larger.

    Of course I am not judging your actions you did what you thought best and I wasn't in your shoes.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  14. #14
    Regular Member OPS MARINE's Avatar
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    You were absolutely right to do what you did. I applaud you for having the courage to OC, butI should ask you a few questions. Did you have at least the Penal Code in one of your pockets to perhaps educate the public, or a Police Officer who may or may not understand the law fully? Did you have a friendly witness with you? Did you have a silent witness with you (recorder, video camera)? I only ask this because these same questions, although I paraphrased, were asked of me. Be sure you know the law pertaining to where you are OCing, and always be prepared to educate those who are ignorant of their own rights. I'd also like to add that if you are ever approached by LEOs, be polite. A little respect goes a loooong way. Please be careful and continue to exercise your rights. Happy OC!!



    "Si Vis Pacem Parabellum"

    "You, you...and you, PANIC! The rest of you, come with me."- Unknown Marine
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    yellowneck86 wrote:
    My name is steve, I reside in the east bay area and I strongly believe in the right to keep and bear arms. Not too long ago, I have descovered the UOC movement from watching the news about the man who open carried an AR15 in Arizona. Further research has lead me to the ca open carry website. I decided to have an open discussion about UOC with one of my coworkers on a social networking site. The coworker; a former police explorer states that if I open carry, he gaurantees that police will force me on the ground at gun point. I proved this guy wrong by UOCing for 8 hours in public without any encounters from law enforcement. By the end of the day, the discussion gets out of hand. A few weeks later, I was called into my directors office. My director brought in a phsycologist to evaluate my "mental condition". At the same time, I have noticed That a police officer was present during the time of the evaluation. I was told that a few coworkers were concerned for their safety due to the fact that I open carried. After speaking to the phsycologist, I have assured him that I would not cause any physical harm to my employees. After speaking with the phsycologist, my employer; who I've been working working for 2 years decided to give me 2 choices: force to resign or get terminated. All due to the fact that I believed in open carry. I chose to quit and I found another job within 4 days of my resignation. My former coworkers continue to mock and harrass me of the incidents and of my rights.
    Where did I go wrong?
    Classic illegal behavior by ignorant fools. Sue their ass off!

  16. #16
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    I carried a couple of open carry pamphlets from the caopencarry.org website, I spent most of my time OC'ing at a gun shop I volunteer and help out at. I did have my cellphone on me with camcorder mode on standby. I really liked that read on how to educate an anti gun person.

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