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Thread: FBI Bullet tests...pass or fail

  1. #1
    Regular Member SlowDog's Avatar
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    Ever wonder how the FBI conducts their bullet tests to decide which bullets are ok for their agents to carry? Here's the link that describes the whole procedure in case anyone is interested.....enjoy....

    http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammunitio...911/index.html
    Only two have offered their lives for you. A Soldier and Jesus....

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    A few 2-3-5 years back (it's been a while) I had the pleasure of shootingalongside a ballistics guru retired from the FBI. He was involved in designing and evaluating ammuntionusedbythe organization.

    I was walking down range to checkmy targets, and I saw jacket shrapnel that looked a little odd, instead of copper, it was brass, and it was exapnded into curled back petals like you see on the Talon rounds. Nasty looking stuff for sure

    I did not know who this guy was or his history at the time, but I asked him if he had ever seen a jacketed round that looked like what was on the ground. He said "yup, those are from me" I asked what he was shooting and he said it was a round that I would not see in any store. We walked back to the shooting bench, and he opened a box of .45ACP with semibrass-jacketed ammunition with some agressive looking expansion initiating cuts in them. I asked where he got those, and if it was a little expensive to be shooting ammo like that, then he told me where it came from, it purpose, and how it got designed.

    The guy was a treasure trove of information, I wish I could have had a digital recorder handy when talking to this guy because he had so much knowledge on ballistics.

    I wish I could remember half of the stuff I learned that day.



    Anyone else ever see brass-jacketed hollowpoint handgun ammo in .45ACP?

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    Federal Effective Full Metal Jacket EFMJ is copper jacketed enclosing a plastic pill in the hollow and with IIRC scores inside the jacket. This is my carry ammo in .40 and .45.

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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Nutczak wrote:
    A few 2-3-5 years back (it's been a while) I had the pleasure of shootingalongside a ballistics guru retired from the FBI. He was involved in designing and evaluating ammuntionusedbythe organization.

    I was walking down range to checkmy targets, and I saw jacket shrapnel that looked a little odd, instead of copper, it was brass, and it was exapnded into curled back petals like you see on the Talon rounds. Nasty looking stuff for sure

    I did not know who this guy was or his history at the time, but I asked him if he had ever seen a jacketed round that looked like what was on the ground. He said "yup, those are from me" I asked what he was shooting and he said it was a round that I would not see in any store. We walked back to the shooting bench, and he opened a box of .45ACP with semibrass-jacketed ammunition with some agressive looking expansion initiating cuts in them. I asked where he got those, and if it was a little expensive to be shooting ammo like that, then he told me where it came from, it purpose, and how it got designed.

    The guy was a treasure trove of information, I wish I could have had a digital recorder handy when talking to this guy because he had so much knowledge on ballistics.

    I wish I could remember half of the stuff I learned that day.



    Anyone else ever see brass-jacketed hollowpoint handgun ammo in .45ACP?
    TheKunk47 would know.He's an ammo manufacturer.
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Nutczak wrote:
    A few 2-3-5 years back (it's been a while) I had the pleasure of shootingalongside a ballistics guru retired from the FBI. He was involved in designing and evaluating ammuntionusedbythe organization.

    I was walking down range to checkmy targets, and I saw jacket shrapnel that looked a little odd, instead of copper, it was brass, and it was exapnded into curled back petals like you see on the Talon rounds. Nasty looking stuff for sure

    I did not know who this guy was or his history at the time, but I asked him if he had ever seen a jacketed round that looked like what was on the ground. He said "yup, those are from me" I asked what he was shooting and he said it was a round that I would not see in any store. We walked back to the shooting bench, and he opened a box of .45ACP with semibrass-jacketed ammunition with some agressive looking expansion initiating cuts in them. I asked where he got those, and if it was a little expensive to be shooting ammo like that, then he told me where it came from, it purpose, and how it got designed.

    The guy was a treasure trove of information, I wish I could have had a digital recorder handy when talking to this guy because he had so much knowledge on ballistics.

    I wish I could remember half of the stuff I learned that day.



    Anyone else ever see brass-jacketed hollowpoint handgun ammo in .45ACP?
    Sounds a lot like Federal HST - except that they do not separate and retain virtually 100% of their original weight.

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    Hey, Thanks for the info. I thought it was intresting to learn how they test the ammo.

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    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    Federal Effective Full Metal Jacket EFMJ is copper jacketed enclosing a plastic pill in the hollow and with IIRC scores inside the jacket. This is my carry ammo in .40 and .45.
    It's Expanding Full Metal Jacket (EFMJ).

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Tests like this are easy enough to conduct on your own. Just take a wet pack, (a phone book or bound stack of news papers) and soak it for 24-36 hours. This will simulate mammal organs and muscles, and not have to be refrigerated like ballistic gelatin. You can put old coats in front of them, plus dry wall, wood, glass bottles, whatever you want that you can imagine having to shoot through.

    Evil creamsicle and I recently conducted this type of test on some home made HP ammo that we made with my smelter. Failed miserably. It's a very effective yet cheap way to test ammo.
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Nutczak wrote:
    Anyone else ever see brass-jacketed hollowpoint handgun ammo in .45ACP?
    Sounds a lot like Federal HST - except that they do not separate and retain virtually 100% of their original weight.

    Yata hey
    You also got to remember these rounds were hitting theground which wascomprised of mostlysand with rocks after passing through the paper target, almost any bullet (besides a solid) willcome apart that way .

    These projectilesdid not have acopper jacket material, it was defenitelybrass, that is why it caught me attention so much.

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Also, the distance a round travels in water is roughly 1.5 to 2 times the distance it will travel in ballistics gel. A gallon jug of water is 6 inches across its widest point so you can line them up and get a ball park on bullet penetration.

    I was surprised as hell when my friends 9mm Hornady TAP ammo failed to exapand in water. We tried 3 shots through two layers of denim and all three punched straight through 5 jugs of water with an exit hole only slightly larger than the entrance.

    We had the same results with Winchester Silvertips out of a .32 acp.

    Bronson
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    This is why I carry Speer Gold Dot ammo in my 45acp. In gallon jugs of water it averages 99.8 percent weight retention and an average expansion to .74. That's huge!!
    Only two have offered their lives for you. A Soldier and Jesus....

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    Fishous wrote:
    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    Federal Effective Full Metal Jacket EFMJ is copper jacketed enclosing a plastic pill in the hollow and with IIRC scores inside the jacket. This is my carry ammo in .40 and .45.
    It's Expanding Full Metal Jacket (EFMJ).
    Thank you. You are correct and it is good ammo.

  13. #13
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    I dont much care for the Speer GoldDots, or the Winchester Silver Tips. I have seen both rounds get clogged up from just dry wall, And they didnt expand, They actually shrunk. The GD hit the drywall going straight, then started to spin sideways, That isn`t right at all. I have since changed my carry ammo. I carry Federal Hydra Shock`s, Corbon Pow R Ball`s as my SD ammo, And love the 2 rounds they have expanded the way that they were supposed to, With what ever I put the bullet through.

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    I just switched to Win PDX1 40 cal from the Silvertips. The claim is that the PDX1s meet FBI test protocol.

    Test results I've seen show these to had the best energy transfer, expansion and great penetration.

    I got 4 boxes this weekend.

    Gonna check them out at range soon.



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    I use Cor Bon 9mm +P JHP 115gr, Federal Hydra Shok JHP 135 gr

    I believe what you saw the federal person using was indeed Winchester Ranger Law Enforcement Ammunition the 9mm version being 9mm Luger +P 124gr SXT

    Mel

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    Regular Member SlowDog's Avatar
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    As soon as I can get some time & help I plan to run some real world our world tests.
    Only two have offered their lives for you. A Soldier and Jesus....

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