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Open Carry "On Steroids"

BARELY ILLEGAL

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longwatch wrote:
Ill be nearby for the march that day. I think thats a more productive place to be.
http://secondamendmentmarch.com/
Look for the signs and flags along the george Washington Parkway. I and several others will likely be there that day. 2A marchers would definitely be part of the target audience I am trying to reach. I don't know which one would be more productive, and I'm really not trying to get into a competition. I'm all about the 2nd amendment, of course, but I'd also like to excercise it as I protest, which I cannot do in DC without serious risk.
 

marshaul

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Tom Gresham wrote:
A few thoughts . . .

The OP clearly wants this to be some kind of "media event." He wants to educate the media.

You may as well try to educate a tree.

Having been part of the media for 40 years, I can tell you that they don't want to be educated, because they are quite sure they are smarter and much better informed than you are, and NOTHING you say can change their minds.

It is 1. wasteful, 2. pointless, and 3. actually counterproductive to engage in this kind of "educate the media" stunts.

If you want to be effective, you USE the media to educate the public. This is what I tried to explain to the folks at the Second Amendment March, but finally gave up as they got caught up in T-shirt sales, aligning with folks we don't want the gun movement to be linked to, etc.

You have to USE the media. To do that, you have to understand what it is that motivates them, gets their attention, and you have to take advantage of their biases.

It's actually quite easy. You turn their biases upside down.

Case in point -- the Pink Pistols organization drives the media crazy, because the media can't portray them as mindless, backwoods, mouth-breathing men with guns. Because of the media's support of the gay and lesbian movement, they are forced to treat the Pink Pistols with respect.

Take that observation, and expand it, then use it to get the media to cover you in the way you want.

One guy, or a bunch of guys, with guns, packs, water, etc., on the day that a nutjob blew up a bunch of children, is about the dumbest media move possible.

The media will love it. You'll get lots of coverage. And you will make anti-gunners out of people in the middle, and you will turn many gun owners against open carry.

Just my view from a lot of years inside the media.

EDIT: Here's the thing that a lot of gun owners don't get.

The fact that you are right is totally irrelevant. It is immaterial. It doesn't matter. It does not help you win.

Knowing HOW to win helps you win. That means knowing how to USE the media, and to do that, you have to understand that motivates the media.

Get over the "but we are RIGHT" kind of thinking. Yes, we are.

And it doesn't matter in the battle of who is going to win.
+1,000,000

The proof that it isn't a good idea to completely pretend the other side doesn't exist (which is what the OP suggested he does, at one point) is that we have to do these marches in the first place.

If righteousness alone sufficed, there wouldn't be a debate in the first place.

Like it or not, the "other side" matters. You won't make progress with back-slapping and choir-preaching.

Only by using logic to convince fence-sitters and discredit antis will we win this fight.
 

rodbender

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bigdaddy1 wrote:
like_the_roman wrote:
If you're going to go through with it, then at least change the day. I know it's 'symbolic' to choose the same day that McVeigh blew up the OKC building, but
that's not an event that open carry needs to be connected with.
You'll only play into the hands of the people who think all gun owners are "extremists."

I would rather you NOT speak for the entire OPEN CARRY community.

As for your comment regarding his choice of date, many things happens through out history on any given date. You choose what you want to be remembered for. I stubbed my toe really bad on that day last year.
The real poblem is that the news media will pick the historicalevent that best fits their agenda, and you should know that.
 

like_the_roman

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The real problem is that the news media will pick the historicalevent that best fits their agenda, and you should know that.
More than that, certain events are automatically more prominent in people's minds because of the period of time that they lived through.

When "BARELY ILLEGAL" proposes for a get-together near Washington on 19 April, I immediately thought back to OKC, the Branch Davidians, and Columbine -- not the Revolutionary War (you can blame public school indoctrination for this -- my schools were always on lockdown those days and the teachers would always use the opportunity to attack gun owners and "right-wingers." But I digress.)

CNN/ABC/CBS/*NBC will spin any sort of RKBA related stunt to show a resurgience in "right-wing" extremism, so one has to do everything to disprove that to be taken seriously in "respectible" channels. That's the way it is, unfortunately.
 

altajava

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Oct 31, 2008
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Occupied Virginia, USA
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The Second Amendment March is on the same day downtown but you must go unarmed or you will be there for an extended stay.

I do have a minor issue with this PC crap of you can't do it on this day in history because... There will always be a date on the calender that is inappropriate for this or that reason, or you will offend someone somewhere.
 

marshaul

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altajava wrote:
 

The Second Amendment March is on the same day downtown but you must go unarmed or you will be there for an extended stay. 

I do have a minor issue with this PC crap of you can't do it on this day in history because... There will always be a date on the calender that is inappropriate for this or that reason, or you will offend someone somewhere.
Please, can we all get over "PC" already, which hasn't been relevant for 10 years or more?

It's about good tactics. Sure, every date has significance to someone. But, this date wasn't picked at random. It was picked precisely because it has significance, and as a result it's the same date chosen by several other people trying to make a point, people whom we do not want to be associated with.

Long before "PC" ever existed, political activists had to carefully consider the ramifications of their actions, and they will long after. Please let's stop using "anti-PC" as an excuse not to think. It makes us no better than the hypothetical person who does practice PC.

Political correctness is about not offending people by putting your foot in your mouth. Since offense is stupid anyway, I agree that political correctness is stupid, and recognize that we all makes choices about who we wish to offend or not regardless of notions of "PC".

But obvious bad strategy and tactics are not a result of "PC".

By the way, it occurs to me, if you want to argue "but every date has some significance to someone!", trying doing that on a random day which wasn't intentionally selected by you for its significance, and see if it even matters what occurred on that day. I suspect you'll find that the significance is generally irrelevant when it isn't actively sought.

If you're just going to lump everything that might cause disagreement with the other side into "PC" then you've stopped thinking.
 

BARELY ILLEGAL

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Any takers here? Is there even such a thing as a rifle open carry movement?Putting aside what anyone anticipates the media or "middle" reaction, what are y'allsindividual reactions? Do y'all think I'm some kind of extremist or publicity fiend?

Let's say for arguments sake that my only intended audience is the 2A/ conservative side and that I've already taken into account that the "sides" are already firmly in their camps.

I remind you that the ONLY reason I am doing this is to put out the word that the constitution is not being followed and get people thinking.If this message were getting throughand our elected officials understood this already, I wouldn't feel the need to get up in their faces as much. Our electedofficials could care less if they follow the constitution, which enshrines rights protecting the MINORITY agasinst the tyranny of the majority, because they know they can getaway with it.

If you accept the premise that the only game in town is to convince 51% and play "majority rule," you can't expectany protection against a tyranny of the majority, OR tyrannyof a governent that was democratically elected. This country is supposed to be a republic, not a mob rule democracy. But conservatives want to continue to play an "appeal to the majority" game. That's fine, but don't pretend to be standing up for the republican form of government vs. democratic mob rule if that's the only game you're willing to play.

:cuss:

Secondly, I'll get off rant in one second here, but I just have to ask again: is the open carry movement just about handguns and defense against the common criminal? Is there any room for rifles here?

:cuss:
 

Decoligny

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ABNinfantryman wrote:
BARELY ILLEGAL wrote:
So, I figured I'd up the chances of getting my message across by carrying a rifle and a pistol. 2) The right to bear arms is important to protect the other rights from government tyranny. Look at the example of the protests being crushed by force in Iran, and20 years ago, the Tienanmen square massacre. As an American citizen I have the right to exercise my first and second amendment rights simultaneously.

Just a hypothetical situation, all of you bring up 2A as being the tool to protect the other amendments. The first amendment says we have the right to peaceable assembly, it does not say "except on private land," nor does it say, "except in your bedroom at 3:00 a.m." so if you were to hold a protest in front of an establishment forming a picket line and a cop came up and said "Move or I'll move you," would you draw your weapon to protect your right to be there protesting? Or let's say during your pow-wow on 19 APR 2010 (A day before Hitler's birthday and the Columbine school shootings, might rethink the day since that's the crap people are going to think of) the cops start telling you to clear out when you're there peacefully, are you going to tell them they'll have to move you by force?

Just saying, I've yet to see anyone use weapons to defend their rights against the government, except maybe at Waco depending on who you believe.

See Blue Above.

Do a little research on private property rights.
 

Interceptor_Knight

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BARELY ILLEGAL wrote:
Is there even such a thing as a rifle open carry movement?

No, there isn't. The Open Carry movement is about normalizing firearms in public. Openly Carrying a holstered handgun is the preferred method and the most practical one. There are very few every-day tasks one can not continue to do while you are OC-ing. Most all jobs can still be done with a sidearm holstered. I built my deer stand this year with my sidearm. There is no way I could have done so with a rifle strapped to my back. It would have actually been dangerous because the barrel or stock would have likely gotten caught on something and I could have fallen.

This is not to say that you can not be making poiltical statements while OC-ing. You are encouraged to do so. Normalizing firearms means normalizing firearms. The simple facts are that you will be scrutinized much more if you are carrying a long arm. It sucks, but it is the truth.
 

Tomahawk

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hansolo wrote:
BARELY ILLEGAL sounds like an FBI fake.

I was thinking more like BARELY PREGNANT...

In any case I won't be there that day, got other plans and as a rule I usually don't OC rifles. Not very practicle for self-defense in this area.
 
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