A CC question for those of us in non-OC states

imported post

My home state is Florida, and as we all know it's a CC state with few OC exceptions, but I got to wondering something reading a thread in the accessories forum. Is it considered brandishing/printing if you're wearing your spare mags in plain view? Reading the regs there's nothing that mentions loaded mags. The reason I ask I think is obvious, but I'll lay it out anyway, I might not be able to show my weapon to deesculate the situation, but pointing to the mags works to insinuate that there is a very strong possibility that I'm carrying one. Is there something I missed on the regs or case law saying this is illegal?

imported post

ABNinfantryman wrote:

Is there something I missed on the regs or case law saying this is illegal?

Click to expand...

Yes, there may be something that you missed.

I carried concealed in SC for about ten years.

Hypothetically, after you make it clear that you are armed your potential assailant disengages and withdraws. You go on your way but he files a complaint. On investigation the cops find your permit and that you were indeed armed. Welcome to deep kimchee.

In SC there have been a number of road rage incidents in which one party accused the other of displaying a weapon. In SC all may have a gun in the car. It's a cheap shot that works best against a permitted carrier for the cops to find that the accuser was correct that his victim was armed whether the gun was displayed or not.

Just like your other 'gun', keep it in your pants until you can legally use it, then use it without hesitation. Draw and fire in one smooth motion. None of this ignorant stylin' as an ABN (Able Bodied Nauti?).

imported post

ABNinfantryman wrote:

My home state is Florida, and as we all know it's a CC state with few OC exceptions, but I got to wondering something reading a thread in the accessories forum. Is it considered brandishing/printing if you're wearing your spare mags in plain view? Reading the regs there's nothing that mentions loaded mags. The reason I ask I think is obvious, but I'll lay it out anyway, I might not be able to show my weapon to deesculate the situation, but pointing to the mags works to insinuate that there is a very strong possibility that I'm carrying one. Is there something I missed on the regs or case law saying this is illegal?

Click to expand...

When the BG makes a MWAG call (based on seeing your mags) and insists that you displayed/threatened him with it. LE arrives and finds that you do indeed have a gun that was supposed to be completely concealed. What is your viable defense?

Yata hey

imported post

ABNinfantryman wrote:

SNIP The reason I ask I think is obvious, but I'll lay it out anyway, I might not be able to show my weapon to deesculate the situation, but pointing to the mags works to insinuate that there is a very strong possibility that I'm carrying one.

Click to expand...

De-escalate? Introducing a weapon is an escalation.

I can't imagine a situation where I would de-escalate by pointing to the gun or mags.

De-escalation is verbal, or leaving the scene.

I'm figuring that if I need to make reference to my gun, or display it, things are right on the edge. For example, the other guy pulls a knife inside 21' and makes a threat. I need to start creating distance, and pointing the gun while loudly demanding he drop the knife. That sort of thing.

I guess the dividing line for me is that if there is enough threat to make reference to the gun, there is enough threat to display the gun, or perhaps actually use it. If there is not enough threat to make reference to the gun or display it, then everybody is still just talking, or I am leaving, and there is no need for any weapons to be introduced into the mix.

+1 to the posters who mentioned police investigating a brandishing call from the antagonist.

imported post

Grapeshot wrote:

When the BG makes a MWAG call (based on seeing your mags) and insists that you displayed/threatened him with it. LE arrives and finds that you do indeed have a gun that was supposed to be completely concealed. What is your viable defense?

Yata hey

Click to expand...

The gun would be completely concealed, we're talking about mags which there's nothing in Florida regs stating spare mags must be completely concealed. There is also nothing in Florida regs stating how you can transport ammo or parts. For all they know, prior to a search, all I'm carrying is the mags. Besides of which, the same MWAG call could be made because I'm wearing a Glock shirt, or some other gun shirt, which I agree with Massad Ayoob putting it out there that you're carrying is not always the best idea because of MWAG calls, the question is more about technically being within the scope of the law.

imported post

ABNinfantryman wrote:

Grapeshot wrote:

When the BG makes a MWAG call (based on seeing your mags) and insists that you displayed/threatened him with it. LE arrives and finds that you do indeed have a gun that was supposed to be completely concealed. What is your viable defense?

Yata hey

Click to expand...

The gun would be completely concealed, we're talking about mags which there's nothing in Florida regs stating spare mags must be completely concealed. There is also nothing in Florida regs stating how you can transport ammo or parts. For all they know, prior to a search, all I'm carrying is the mags. Besides of which, the same MWAG call could be made because I'm wearing a Glock shirt, or some other gun shirt, which I agree with Massad Ayoob putting it out there that you're carrying is not always the best idea because of MWAG calls, the question is more about technically being within the scope of the law.

Click to expand...

I think you are mixing your questions.

Earlier you said your reason was to be able to point to the mags to de-escalate a situation. We've dealt with that.

Now you are asking again about being technically within the law. Fine question. Nothing wrong with that. Answer: whatever the statute says, as modified by court opinions on the subject.

I don't know of anything; but I can speculate. I'm betting there are plenty of judges who will uphold a brandishing charge for pointing to the magazines. Not all judges. I imagine there are plenty who would say it doesn't fit the statutory prohibition. But, I'll bet there are enough weasel judges who would stretch the definition. And cops.

Also, you have the whole angle of: "the question has never come up before". As we have seen, plenty of cops are willing to take enforcement action on what they think is illegal, without first consulting the statute.

I wouldn't want to be the test case. But, this assumes there is no case law on the subject.