GLOCK21GB
Campaign Veteran
imported post
WheelGun wrote:
WheelGun wrote:
M-16 came first, then the civilian version AR-15
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Is it better to have a cheap riffle rather than none?
- Thread starter bigdaddy1
- Start date
office888
Regular Member
imported post
bigdaddy1 wrote:
You can convert the single-stack, to the double-stack with 30 min and a dremel. Whiicch is what I'm going to do promptly, before I even shoot the thing.
And polish all sliding / rotating surfaces. =)
-Richard-
bigdaddy1 wrote:
Eh, didn't feel like paying the $70+tax extra.
You can convert the single-stack, to the double-stack with 30 min and a dremel. Whiicch is what I'm going to do promptly, before I even shoot the thing.
And polish all sliding / rotating surfaces. =)
-Richard-
Interceptor_Knight
Regular Member
imported post
WheelGun wrote:
WheelGun wrote:
Not to be nit-picky, but the original ArmaLite (Designed by Eugene Stoner) AR-15 was select fire full auto as was the original AR10.Colt bought the rights from Fairchild ArmaLite in 1959. The present day Armaliteis not related to the original Fairchild ArmaLite.Some early M16s were marked AR15 also as the M16 is the US Military designation for the AR15 rifle. All current production AR15s are semiautomatic variants of the original AR15 as Colt used the AR15 designation for both its full auto rifles sold to the militaries of various countries including the USA and for its semiautomatic versions sold to Joe Sixpack......:dude:
Hawkflyer
Founder's Club Member
imported post
bigdaddy1 wrote:
I'm glad to see this is your view. As you can see one post can bring a lot of people out of the woodwork. Setting aside all the nit picking over history for a moment, the short answer to the question yin your original post is yes it is better to have a well made, sturdy rifle that is safe to shoot then to have no rifle at all.
Regards
bigdaddy1 wrote:
I don't think there will be any invading going on any time soon. I am not one of the Mad Maxer's waiting for armageddon. I do believe in being prepared just in case some sh*t does happen.
I'm glad to see this is your view. As you can see one post can bring a lot of people out of the woodwork. Setting aside all the nit picking over history for a moment, the short answer to the question yin your original post is yes it is better to have a well made, sturdy rifle that is safe to shoot then to have no rifle at all.
Regards
M
McX
Guest
imported post
ODA 226
Regular Member
imported post
Armond Reese wrote:
Armond Reese wrote:
Obviouslyyou've never carried an AK in combat.
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
imported post
ODA 226 wrote:
I'd be interested in here the pro's and con's of an AK in combat from someone who's been there.
ODA 226 wrote:
I'd be interested in here the pro's and con's of an AK in combat from someone who's been there.
marshaul
Campaign Veteran
imported post
Citizen wrote:
Citizen wrote:
+1
ABNinfantryman
Regular Member
imported post
A cheap weapon is better than no weapon at all, but if you had the luxury to pick what you want I'd look into the Patriot Ordnance 416 or the SIG556. I prefer the SIG556 because it removes the forward assist and rear charginghandle, combines both and sticks it on the bolt itself, and is an american version of the 550 with some tweaks here and there. It also uses a gas piston system similar to an AK, and they seemed to have fixed the problems with the Gen 1s (The tolerances in thegas tube were too tight whichwas causingthe piston toseize).Expensive though.
On the topic of the AK vs AR, the AK was designed on the philosophy of sending a wall of lead in the direction of your enemy. It's essentially an automatic version of a musket meant to work in tandem with many more AKs to work effectively. Not to say you can't get a Krebs whom retools the barrel or makes his own, but if you're looking to get a Russian AK, or the POS Chinese and Romanian AKs, don't expect much for accuracy. Like ODA, my experience overseas has not been pleasant with AKs. They work for the locals because they use them like they're supposed to, a lot of rounds from a lot of different AKs at the same time, but for precision shots, bleh.
A cheap weapon is better than no weapon at all, but if you had the luxury to pick what you want I'd look into the Patriot Ordnance 416 or the SIG556. I prefer the SIG556 because it removes the forward assist and rear charginghandle, combines both and sticks it on the bolt itself, and is an american version of the 550 with some tweaks here and there. It also uses a gas piston system similar to an AK, and they seemed to have fixed the problems with the Gen 1s (The tolerances in thegas tube were too tight whichwas causingthe piston toseize).Expensive though.
On the topic of the AK vs AR, the AK was designed on the philosophy of sending a wall of lead in the direction of your enemy. It's essentially an automatic version of a musket meant to work in tandem with many more AKs to work effectively. Not to say you can't get a Krebs whom retools the barrel or makes his own, but if you're looking to get a Russian AK, or the POS Chinese and Romanian AKs, don't expect much for accuracy. Like ODA, my experience overseas has not been pleasant with AKs. They work for the locals because they use them like they're supposed to, a lot of rounds from a lot of different AKs at the same time, but for precision shots, bleh.
AZkopper
Regular Member
imported post
I'll start another war that will cover 3 pages....
Go with the "American AK"....the Mini-14.
It is chambered in.223, accuracy is better than 2 MOA out of the box, you can buy reliable 20 round factory mags for $35 or so on sale, or 30 rounders for $45 or so on sale, it is based loosley on the Garand-style action and can shoot and shoot long after the AR jams. You can also get one for under $700.
While some Mini's were innacurate back in the day, the newer (2008+) heavier barrels have solved those problems.
I'll start another war that will cover 3 pages....
Go with the "American AK"....the Mini-14.
It is chambered in.223, accuracy is better than 2 MOA out of the box, you can buy reliable 20 round factory mags for $35 or so on sale, or 30 rounders for $45 or so on sale, it is based loosley on the Garand-style action and can shoot and shoot long after the AR jams. You can also get one for under $700.
While some Mini's were innacurate back in the day, the newer (2008+) heavier barrels have solved those problems.
Interceptor_Knight
Regular Member
imported post
ABNinfantryman wrote: Some Chinese variants areof the most accurate mass produced variants. you will find. The receivers are often made of thicker material than the cheaper WASRs and MISRs, etc.. I have yet to see an AK that will not shoot 3-MOA. Some are better. 4MOA is good enough to hit a man sized target out to 400M and a head shot at 200M+..
ABNinfantryman wrote:
Send all of the Chinese AKs my way......
Some Chinese variants areof the most accurate mass produced variants. you will find. The receivers are often made of thicker material than the cheaper WASRs and MISRs, etc.. I have yet to see an AK that will not shoot 3-MOA. Some are better. 4MOA is good enough to hit a man sized target out to 400M and a head shot at 200M+..
Interceptor_Knight
Regular Member
imported post
AZkopper wrote:
The Minis are a good value if you can find a used one. Unfortunately Ruger has increased the new price to more than a basic new AR. The 2MOA accuracyonly holds true for the standard barrel length models. The shorter barrel models (16-ish)are somewhat less accurate. Since I have never experiencedjamming problems with my issue M16s or any of the AR15s I have owned and otherwise used over the years, the only advantage to a Mini that I see is the conventional stock design for those who prefer it over a pistol grip.
AZkopper wrote:
The Minis are a good value if you can find a used one. Unfortunately Ruger has increased the new price to more than a basic new AR. The 2MOA accuracyonly holds true for the standard barrel length models. The shorter barrel models (16-ish)are somewhat less accurate. Since I have never experiencedjamming problems with my issue M16s or any of the AR15s I have owned and otherwise used over the years, the only advantage to a Mini that I see is the conventional stock design for those who prefer it over a pistol grip.
Armond Reese
Banned
imported post
ODA 226 wrote:
:quirky
ODA 226 wrote:
Tell me more about your experience carrying around a $700 AR-15 in combat.
:quirky
GLOCK21GB
Campaign Veteran
imported post
Interceptor_Knight wrote:
Interceptor_Knight wrote:
+ 1 , The Chinese, Norinco Milled AK47's are sweet.ABNinfantryman wrote:Send all of the Chinese AKs my way......
MSC 45ACP
Regular Member
imported post
suntzu wrote:
I HAVE THE VERY FIRST FINICKY AK IN HISTORY!
I have a WASR 10/63 that shoots AMERICAN made ammo (brass casings) with no trouble, but it JAMS (failure to extract) nearly EVERY TIME with WOLF ammunition!!!
HOW IRONIC is THAT???
A Russian-designed weapon WON'T SHOOT RUSSIAN AMMO!
I've tried cleaning it and really cleaning the chamber, and no luck... the POS still won't extract WOLF ammo.
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, OVER?!?!?!?!?
suntzu wrote:
I HAVE THE VERY FIRST FINICKY AK IN HISTORY!
I have a WASR 10/63 that shoots AMERICAN made ammo (brass casings) with no trouble, but it JAMS (failure to extract) nearly EVERY TIME with WOLF ammunition!!!
HOW IRONIC is THAT???
A Russian-designed weapon WON'T SHOOT RUSSIAN AMMO!
I've tried cleaning it and really cleaning the chamber, and no luck... the POS still won't extract WOLF ammo.
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, OVER?!?!?!?!?
M
McX
Guest
imported post
Hawkflyer
Founder's Club Member
imported post
McX wrote:
+1
However the original question was AK or AR. Once you get past those the mini would be my first choice. I drive one every day ... Oh wait you mean the rifle ... Yea they are very good too.
Regards:lol:
McX wrote:
+1
However the original question was AK or AR. Once you get past those the mini would be my first choice. I drive one every day ... Oh wait you mean the rifle ... Yea they are very good too.
Regards:lol:
GLOCK21GB
Campaign Veteran
imported post
Hawkflyer wrote:
2. FN/FAL
3. ak-47
4. sig-556
5. S&W M76
6. Ruger-SR Rifle
7. Rem M700 - .308 / 30.06
8. Mini-14
9. Mauser K98
10. 30.06 Garand
Hawkflyer wrote:
1. Ar-15
2. FN/FAL
3. ak-47
4. sig-556
5. S&W M76
6. Ruger-SR Rifle
7. Rem M700 - .308 / 30.06
8. Mini-14
9. Mauser K98
10. 30.06 Garand
Deanimator
Regular Member
imported post
The Kalashnikov isn't a "poor" rifle. It's a rifle designed under a different premise than the Armalite.
The premise of the Kalashnikov is that it's better to have an incredibly reliable, inexpensive rifle with average accuracy out to about 300 yards rather than a moderately expensive rifle of average reliability that's incredibly accurate out to 600 yards.
Either will get the job done better. The Kalashnikov will get the job done better in a remote environment, with no logistical support. The AR will [usually] get it done better in a supportable environment... like your living room. In most home defense applications, they're interchangeable.
The Kalashnikov isn't a "poor" rifle. It's a rifle designed under a different premise than the Armalite.
The premise of the Kalashnikov is that it's better to have an incredibly reliable, inexpensive rifle with average accuracy out to about 300 yards rather than a moderately expensive rifle of average reliability that's incredibly accurate out to 600 yards.
Either will get the job done better. The Kalashnikov will get the job done better in a remote environment, with no logistical support. The AR will [usually] get it done better in a supportable environment... like your living room. In most home defense applications, they're interchangeable.
Nutczak
Regular Member
imported post
RockyMtnScotsman wrote:
The forward assist was added after the original design, And for a few important reasons.
First off the rifle was tested with extruded powder ammunition, Then the military changed specs on the ammunition after the rifle went into production and they decided on "Ball Powder" which is known for being a very dirty powder that leaves lots of residue.
With the ball powder gumming up the action, and the rifles not being cleanedthe bolt would not close fully due to the fouling from the powder, dirt and mud in the environment. so, the forward assist was a life saver.
I will take a singleAR variant instead of 2 or 3 AK's
The AR platform goes against what should be happening with accuracy, because we all know a bolt-action rilfe is the most accurate action, right? Well not so with the AR, the bolt lock-up is so solid it will shoot just as accurate as a bolt-action rifle.
RockyMtnScotsman wrote:
I have to seriously question any "assault rifle" that needs the addition of a forward assist button to make sure rounds chamber properly.
Make mine AK.
The forward assist was added after the original design, And for a few important reasons.
First off the rifle was tested with extruded powder ammunition, Then the military changed specs on the ammunition after the rifle went into production and they decided on "Ball Powder" which is known for being a very dirty powder that leaves lots of residue.
With the ball powder gumming up the action, and the rifles not being cleanedthe bolt would not close fully due to the fouling from the powder, dirt and mud in the environment. so, the forward assist was a life saver.
I will take a singleAR variant instead of 2 or 3 AK's
The AR platform goes against what should be happening with accuracy, because we all know a bolt-action rilfe is the most accurate action, right? Well not so with the AR, the bolt lock-up is so solid it will shoot just as accurate as a bolt-action rifle.