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Thread: Because I can carry a full sized service pistol

  1. #1
    Regular Member sraacke's Avatar
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    It's difficult to conceal a fullsized Ruger P-89 when dressing for typical south Louisiana weather. I could opt for a smaller weapon and/or one in a smaller caliber or fewer rounds but I'm not comfortable doing that.

    I'm even less comfortable after reading an article in this month's issue of Police Magazine. The story, which you can read at-

    http://www.policemag.com/Channel/Pat...3-30-1996.aspx

    tells the story of an off duty LEO who, while shopping, takes on a hostage taker. The bad guy was armed with a Glock 17. The LEO had a 5 shot revolver which was being carried in his wifes purse when things went bad.

    A gunfight began. The BG fired and hit the LEO. The LEO fired back and scored a few hits but quickly ran out of ammo.
    As he dropped his spent revolver to the asphalt, Hendrix could only hope that Ripley might still retain some vestige of humanity and show some mercy.

    He didn't
    Think about it. Would you want to be caught in a situation where you have to defend your life and you only have 5 rounds? I wouldn't.

    The LEO had 13 holes in his body but he survived and now passes on what he lerned to others.
    Today, Hendrix routinely shares his experience that day with academy cadets, as well as his feelings on what things he would have done differently.

    "I was carrying a five-shot revolver," Hendrix says. "None of the trainees that I have spoken to will carry one of those as their primary off-duty weapon. Five shots is simply not enough."

    Hendrix also explains to new recruits the difference between shooting on a range and shooting to save your own life.

    "I'm shooting five shots, and people think that it's easy to place those rounds where you want them. But when you're taking fire-and worse, when your body's taking rounds-you're putting yourself behind the eight ball the moment you engage with a limited number of low velocity rounds and your suspect isn't so hamstrung. You need to carry a larger caliber firearm with greater round capacity.

    "I hit the suspect four out of five shots, and I think that's very good after being hit as many times as I was and returning fire while he was shooting at me and from a distance of 31 feet. But a larger caliber gun, with its longer barrel and better sights, also allows for greater accuracy."
    So there is a good example of why I perfer Open Carry. I can carry a reliable, full sized handgun with more comfort than if I tried to conceal carry the same firearm.


    President/ Founding Member
    Louisiana Open Carry Awareness League
    www.laopencarry.org

  2. #2
    Regular Member Statesman's Avatar
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    That is an amazing story!

    Just don't go to Whole Foods to shop, as they have allegedly banned firearms in their stores. They claim it is necessary to ensure that no "shootouts" take place. Apparently they would rather it just be a victim killing spree, by not allowing good people to be armed.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum4/34506.html

    My hat is off to anyone that can hit a target with what is mostly likely a short barreled snub nose revolver. I have a hard enough time hitting the target at 15 yards with those things! 4 out of 5 under fire at 31 feet is impressive to me.

    How on Earth does someone have 13 bullet wounds in their body and survive!? Obviously nothing critical was hit I hope.

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    Statesman wrote:
    How on Earth does someone have 13 bullet wounds in their body and survive!? Obviously nothing critical was hit I hope.
    Maybe the reportercounted pass through shots as 2-holes each? So 6-shots that went through non vital parts, and one that stayed in? Who knows? With enough adrenaline pumping through your body, you would be amazed at what you could do while injured very badly.

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Statesman wrote:
    That is an amazing story!

    ...SNIP...

    How on Earth does someone have 13 bullet wounds in their body and survive!?¬* Obviously nothing critical was hit I hope.
    Usually because the person does not "leak" too much. While it is possible to hit something so important that the targets clock just stops, usually people who are shot die from blood loss. So if no major arteries are hit a person can keep going for a while. It will hurt like hell but they can stay alive. This is something for people to remember in self defense situations. The guy you shoot may not just stop the first time you hit him.

    As to the OP, a full size work well as to capacity, but you can shrink the package a little. A good double stack auto can carry a lot of ammo. Even the Para-Ordnance P10.45 or Warthog is smaller than a lot of five shot revolvers and yet it carries 11 .45 auto rounds. Move up one size to a p12.45 and you have 13 rounds in an auto pistol that a normal man can grip well, and shoot with reasonable accuracy in a serious social situation.

    There are a lot of other equally fine choices out there.

    Regards
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    q1 - Why would you buy a Ruger?

    They supported the AWB and voluntarily
    limited mag capacities before it
    went into effect.

    They aren't pro 2A just pro-money
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

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    That was true, but, no longer. Change of ceo's and higher ups put Ruger back on track.
    Chuck Norris/Ted Nugent That's the ticket for 2016!

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    carracer wrote:
    That was true, but, no longer. Change of ceo's and higher ups put Ruger back on track.
    Too right. Now they're producing an AR style rifle, as well as selling 30 round magazines for both the mini and their AR. I'd say they're trying to change.

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    AS far a Ruger goes, They make a nice piece. Rifle and Handgun. There new SR556 is an awesome toy. I love how it shoots but, for the same money you could have 2 AR15s. Preference.

    As far as having ammo. I Carry a slightly smaller framed gun (Beretta M92 Custom Carry) and a few extra mags in a mag pouch(two M92 15rnd mags, instead of the Custom Carry 10rnds). Not that much extra space or weight on the belt and the gun and mags are easy to conceal.

    Same with revolvers I Have carryied my Ruger GP 100 and My 44MAG before, with a couple speed loaders fro the ruger and also the good old Cowboy gun belt for the 44mag. admittedly you do get a lot more funny looks but you have all the ammo you need.

    Just My 2 cents

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    I carry a 5" 1911. If I can't carry it, I have a Taurus PT745. Throw the biggest rock you can.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    I would carry a fullsize 1911, even concealed. It's really not a cumbersome piece.

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    marshaul wrote:
    I would carry a fullsize 1911, even concealed. It's really not a cumbersome piece.
    As opposed to a miniature 1911? Is your miniature piece less cumbersome for your special friend? Inadequate, even?

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Lead Lobber wrote:
    marshaul wrote:
    I would carry a fullsize 1911, even concealed. It's really not a cumbersome piece.
    As opposed to a miniature 1911? Is your miniature piece less cumbersome for your special friend? Inadequate, even?
    Once again, you make no sense.

    There are many sizes of 1911-pattern guns.

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    Colt Defender surely could be considered a mini 1911?

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    N6ATF wrote:
    Colt Defender surely could be considered a mini 1911?
    Sure, if you're actually capable of rational thought.

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    marshaul wrote:
    N6ATF wrote:
    Colt Defender surely could be considered a mini 1911?
    Sure, if you're actually capable of rational thought.
    I'm not. Whoops.

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    lol, I wouldn't worry about it.

    Compared to Lead Lobber here, you're a paradigm of correct reasoning.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    I saw two holes in this story (no pun intended). It says the officer shot the BG in his left leg, severing his femoral artery. That artery is in the right leg. The other hole was;

    "The officer could actually see the rounds exiting Ripley's firearm"

    While possible, I would vote doubtful. Still the fact that this officer survived his ordeal is a blessing and he is to be commended for his actions. It does once more prove that you just never know.


    As for seeing rounds exit a handgun, under ideal circumstances, it is possible to see bullets in flight. This happened to me once at a shooting range. I took my wife's boss to Gilbert's in Lorton for some range time. We both had Browning Hi-Power Mark III-S pistols (mine had been worked by Sandy at Northern Virginia Gun Works). He also took a small .38 Special revolver and I took my .44 Magnum 5 1/2" Redhawk which he wanted to try.

    I also took handloads for the .44 in the form of 240gr Sierra JHC bullets over 23 grains of 2400 Hercules. When it came time for him to try the .44, I loaded 6 rounds and put it on his side for him. (he was on my left). When he fired, I saw five of the six rounds going down range (accordingly to my Sierra loading manual, this load was in the neighborhood of 1500 fps). The reason I saw this was the lighting. He was right under some flourescent fixtures and with the normal 60 hertz, it was perfect for this to happen. They looked like copper colored rays - damnedest thing.

    Then I tried it and he saw one of six, but I was not directly under light fixtures so I suspect that was why he didn't see more. I am reluctant to tell people this because they look at you like you're some kind of nutcase. But it's true and it did happen.



    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    This happens under the right conditions a lot. Another set of conditions that leads to this, usually in the morning,is at an outdoor range when the hunidity is very high, and the tempreature is very close to the due point. If the sun is low and behind the shooter, the bullets can at time leave a momentary trail of mist behind them. Looks kind of like a con trail behind an airplane that disapates quickly. It is caused by the preasure change in the air as the bullet passes through. Same thing can happen as frost thaws and rises from the groud under proper lighting.

    It can also happen on clear days when the lighting is behind the shooter and very bright. If you are shooting large subsonic bullets, especially with a high color contract with the background,you can sometimes see them in flight. Especially as an observer as you described.

    Regards
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    I saw two holes in this story (no pun intended). It says the officer shot the BG in his left leg, severing his femoral artery. That artery is in the right leg.
    Really irrelevant to the conversation... but you brought it up as a hole in the story.... I assure you each lower extremity has a femoral artery.

  20. #20
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    atlantis wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    I saw two holes in this story (no pun intended). It says the officer shot the BG in his left leg, severing his femoral artery. That artery is in the right leg.
    Really irrelevant to the conversation... but you brought it up as a hole in the story.... I assure you each lower extremity has a femoral artery.
    The left leg has a larger femoral artery.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    simmonsjoe wrote:
    atlantis wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    I saw two holes in this story (no pun intended). It says the officer shot the BG in his left leg, severing his femoral artery. That artery is in the right leg.
    Really irrelevant to the conversation... but you brought it up as a hole in the story.... I assure you each lower extremity has a femoral artery.
    The left leg has a larger femoral artery.
    While it is true that there is a femoral artery in each leg, they are both nominally the same size. Any difference in this regard is strictly due to natural variation in biological organism growth patterns.

    Regards
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    simmonsjoe wrote:
    atlantis wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    I saw two holes in this story (no pun intended). It says the officer shot the BG in his left leg, severing his femoral artery. That artery is in the right leg.
    Really irrelevant to the conversation... but you brought it up as a hole in the story.... I assure you each lower extremity has a femoral artery.
    The left leg has a larger femoral artery.
    While it is true that there is a femoral artery in each leg, they are both nominally the same size. Any difference in this regard is strictly due to natural variation in biological organism growth patterns.

    Regards
    Both still bleed - damage to one will result in death in approximately four minutes.

    He must be right legged. :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

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    simmonsjoe wrote:
    atlantis wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    I saw two holes in this story (no pun intended). It says the officer shot the BG in his left leg, severing his femoral artery. That artery is in the right leg.
    Really irrelevant to the conversation... but you brought it up as a hole in the story.... I assure you each lower extremity has a femoral artery.
    The left leg has a larger femoral artery.
    Since when?? Maybe if your left leg is larger than the other or some other physical oddity
    If either of your femoral arteries are severed, you have very little time to stop the blood flow before you are unconscious, something like 30 seconds. if the flow is not stopped or slowed, you have about 5 minutes before too much blood is lost to save you.

  24. #24
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Nutczak wrote:
    simmonsjoe wrote:
    atlantis wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    I saw two holes in this story (no pun intended). It says the officer shot the BG in his left leg, severing his femoral artery. That artery is in the right leg.
    Really irrelevant to the conversation... but you brought it up as a hole in the story.... I assure you each lower extremity has a femoral artery.
    The left leg has a larger femoral artery.
    Since when?? Maybe if your left leg is larger than the other or some other physical oddity
    If either of your femoral arteries are severed, you have very little time to stop the blood flow before you are unconscious, something like 30 seconds. if the flow is not stopped or slowed, you have about 5 minutes before too much blood is lost to save you.
    because the femoral artery for the right leg branches off from the main femoral artery, which is on the LEFT side of your body (remember your circulatory system is NOT symmetrical)
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    simmonsjoe wrote:
    Nutczak wrote:
    simmonsjoe wrote:
    atlantis wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    I saw two holes in this story (no pun intended). It says the officer shot the BG in his left leg, severing his femoral artery. That artery is in the right leg.
    Really irrelevant to the conversation... but you brought it up as a hole in the story.... I assure you each lower extremity has a femoral artery.
    The left leg has a larger femoral artery.
    Since when?? Maybe if your left leg is larger than the other or some other physical oddity¬*
    If either of your femoral arteries are severed, you have very little time to stop the blood flow before you are unconscious, something like 30 seconds. if the flow is not stopped or slowed, you have about 5 minutes before too much blood is lost to save you.
    because the femoral artery for the right leg branches off from the main femoral artery, which is on the LEFT side of your body (remember your circulatory system is NOT symmetrical)
    The artery in both legs is nominally the same size and while the system is not perfectly symmetrical it is approximately symmetrical as shown in the image below. The only variation is due to natural differences and imperfections in biological growth patterns. You know ... we are all like snowflakes ...

    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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