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NC OC experience reports

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
I'm sorry Rusty, et al., did I miss the part in the newbie's conversation where there was any need to pull their firearm to protect themselves from some allegedly substance abusing person who is wandering about and shouting at mythical delusions?

so perhaps you missed the order in my post for carrying, SD was listed first! again, since there was no mention of immediate need to pull a firearm for defence, you are projecting. I note interestingly, you listed similar opportunities later in your post!

however, the opportunity to take a moment out to walk a woman out to their vehicle in the parking lot so their peace of mind is maintained and enhanced is priceless. That this is the same individual who was ranting at you for your firearm minutes before is just being the better individual and could, just could have opened a viable dialogue over topics that you mentioned, thus to show another perspective to this individual and leave a sweet memory instead of a bitter memory which could be shared to all who will listen.

I am sorry you and others from around the country disagree, however , my point stands...the opportunity presented itself to show who the better group is...

yet you and others fail to see that !!!

ipse
 
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solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
To get directly to the point, I have in fact posted in this forum previously: my initial post (with a single reply) are in this very thread. Furthermore, I chose to respond as I did for the reasons stated above; the lady in question had already made it perfectly clear how she felt about firearms and she had done so in front of the cashier at the QT. Let's assume for a moment that all he sees is me walking across the parking lot with the woman in question. What is he to think? Am I being kind and helpful? Am I a man carrying a gun harassing the sweet, innocent soccer mom? He can't tell, but based on the previous interaction, I was concerned for myself that it would perceived as harassment. I didn't assist her for that reason. And let's be clear that this isn't in some "small NC town," it was at a gas station on Woodlawn Road, right off of I-77 North in Charlotte, a city with a population of around 800,000. But on the other hand, I pretty sure I already mentioned that in my post above.

Am I a bad Christian because I refused to help? Well, that's between Christ and myself—and given Christ's admonition for his people to be "as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves," I think I made the right call.

That being said, I could have handled it differently. I could have escorted her to her car, and told he politely to have a nice day. But would you put yourself at risk for to be on the receiving end of a MWAG call?

I'm sorry, I misspoke, you had posted two posts prior to posting this latest crisis you recounted.

and you are projecting with 'what ifs' and now trying to justify something that wasn't ...

I certainly hope that is whom you have to justify yourself to....

if you had been lurking for the last year you would know the MWAG in NC is again your feeble projection to justify...find out what our laws are and get over your projection of the sky is falling when you OC, if not just CC and call it a day.

ipse
 

Rusty Young Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
1,548
Location
Árida Zona
I'm sorry Rusty, et al., did I miss the part in the newbie's conversation where there was any need to pull their firearm to protect themselves from some allegedly substance abusing person who is wandering about and shouting at mythical delusions?

so perhaps you missed the order in my post for carrying, SD was listed first! again, since there was no mention of immediate need to pull a firearm for defence, you are projecting. I note interestingly, you listed similar opportunities later in your post!

And I missed the part in my post or the others where it was suggested the drawing of his firearm was imminent.
I stated that I wouldn't put my neck on the line, which includes the legal ramifications one may expect, as well as the possibility of being further mischaracterized by the person you intended to help (though Southern Covenanter goes more in depth regarding his encounter and the possible outcomes).

Perhaps it was a Freudian slip on your part, seeing as I never mentioned Southern Covenanter needing to or having to place his hand on his grip, much less draw his sidearm. The only "opportunity" I mentioned (besides children, who I would define as those who are ~10 years old and younger, thus having little say in being legally armed for self preservation) was in the instance of those who may carry a sidearm to work in the capacity of a personal bodyguard, and I thought I'd made it clear that such an example, while a valid example of carry to protect others, did not apply to the event we are discussing.

however, the opportunity to take a moment out to walk a woman out to their vehicle in the parking lot so their peace of mind is maintained and enhanced is priceless. That this is the same individual who was ranting at you for your firearm minutes before is just being the better individual and could, just could have opened a viable dialogue over topics that you mentioned, thus to show another perspective to this individual and leave a sweet memory instead of a bitter memory which could be shared to all who will listen.

I am sorry you and others from around the country disagree, however , my point stands...the opportunity presented itself to show who the better group is...

yet you and others fail to see that !!!

ipse

He may have been less than courteous to the MAD mom, yet I fail to understand how his placing himself in legal jeopardy (MAD moms have been known to embellish the outright lies they spew) would have helped him or OC.
Had this been a simple case of a passerby mentioning that guns scared them I could see a benefit in rendering aid, but this was someone who made a very public ruckus about his OCed sidearm, something which alone could have resulted in a fatal tragedy.
I am not opposed to helping those who request it, I am simply not willing to help those who've made clear they would take measures to see me killed.
 
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Southern Covenanter

New member
Joined
Sep 5, 2013
Messages
8
Location
Greenville, South Carolina
I'm sorry, I misspoke, you had posted two posts prior to posting this latest crisis you recounted.

and you are projecting with 'what ifs' and now trying to justify something that wasn't ...

I certainly hope that is whom you have to justify yourself to....

if you had been lurking for the last year you would know the MWAG in NC is again your feeble projection to justify...find out what our laws are and get over your projection of the sky is falling when you OC, if not just CC and call it a day.

ipse

I did not and have not referred to this as a "crisis." That's your term for it; mine was that the interaction was ironic.

Without knowing if you have any sort of professional training in psychology or a related field such as psychiatry, I'll give your diagnosis of projection exactly the amount of consideration it deserves.

I am well aware of the laws in North Carolina regarding Open Carry; I am also aware of the fact that Rodney Moore, the current CMPD police chief, was once in an executive leadership role on the Washington D.C. Police force and that he's told his officers to harass those whom are open carrying inside the I-277 loop, effectively turning that area into a "no Open Carry zone." This is no "feeble projection," but rather the state of affairs in the city of Charlotte. Given that reality, I have more than ample reason to be wary of interacting with a CMPD officer, inside the I-277 loop or not.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
I did not and have not referred to this as a "crisis." That's your term for it; mine was that the interaction was ironic.

Without knowing if you have any sort of professional training in psychology or a related field such as psychiatry, I'll give your diagnosis of projection exactly the amount of consideration it deserves.

I am well aware of the laws in North Carolina regarding Open Carry; I am also aware of the fact that Rodney Moore, the current CMPD police chief, was once in an executive leadership role on the Washington D.C. Police force and that he's told his officers to harass those whom are open carrying inside the I-277 loop, effectively turning that area into a "no Open Carry zone." This is no "feeble projection," but rather the state of affairs in the city of Charlotte. Given that reality, I have more than ample reason to be wary of interacting with a CMPD officer, inside the I-277 loop or not.

as a self proclaimed lurker for 'over a year and a half, you have a cite for this hearsay ?

ipse
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
And I missed the part in my post or the others where it was suggested the drawing of his firearm was imminent.
I stated that I wouldn't put my neck on the line, which includes the legal ramifications one may expect, as well as the possibility of being further mischaracterized by the person you intended to help (though Southern Covenanter goes more in depth regarding his encounter and the possible outcomes).

Perhaps it was a Freudian slip on your part, seeing as I never mentioned Southern Covenanter needing to or having to place his hand on his grip, much less draw his sidearm. The only "opportunity" I mentioned (besides children, who I would define as those who are ~10 years old and younger, thus having little say in being legally armed for self preservation) was in the instance of those who may carry a sidearm to work in the capacity of a personal bodyguard, and I thought I'd made it clear that such an example, while a valid example of carry to protect others, did not apply to the event we are discussing.

He may have been less than courteous to the MAD mom, yet I fail to understand how his placing himself in legal jeopardy (MAD moms have been known to embellish the outright lies they spew) would have helped him or OC.
Had this been a simple case of a passerby mentioning that guns scared them I could see a benefit in rendering aid, but this was someone who made a very public ruckus about his OCed sidearm, something which alone could have resulted in a fatal tragedy.
I am not opposed to helping those who request it, I am simply not willing to help those who've made clear they would take measures to see me killed.

i'm sorry do you have a cite for what legal (NC, BTW) jeopardy southern was putting himself in?

and as you apparently stereotype all antis into one huge baileywick, could you provide some type of unemotional evidence when have they taken measures to see you killed? is there a contract out for you by bloomberg?

since everyone from across the nation is projecting , please allow me to project for a moment...southern fails to 'escort' the nice woman to her car, ranting man does her bodily harm, and nice woman from her hospital bed tells her story, near and far, to anybody who listens of how the OC'g gentleman failed to honour her request for an escort when she asked...convenience store cams back up hospitalized woman's story....how's that for a projection and ammunition for bloomberg's cause...!

ipse
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
I didn't get that information here at OCDO; I got it directly from an officer in the CMPD Central Division.

never stated you got your rumor out at OCDO...

as a born again lurker, you should should have read the postings and know unequivocally LE(s) will lie to your face because they themselves do not know the facts or statutes so misinformation is passed along as gospel and you have just furthered that rumor and myth on a public forum!!

so, as you succinctly put it earlier, quote: To get directly to the point unquote, your recent statement is exactly what i perceived it was...misstatements, hearsay, and not based on any cite or fact?

ipse
 

Southern Covenanter

New member
Joined
Sep 5, 2013
Messages
8
Location
Greenville, South Carolina
never stated you got your rumor out at OCDO...

as a born again lurker, you should should have read the postings and know unequivocally LE(s) will lie to your face because they themselves do not know the facts or statutes so misinformation is passed along as gospel and you have just furthered that rumor and myth on a public forum!!

so, as you succinctly put it earlier, quote: To get directly to the point unquote, your recent statement is exactly what i perceived it was...misstatements, hearsay, and not based on any cite or fact?

ipse

I am perfectly aware of the propensity that some LEO's have for intentionally lying to folks about the status of open carry, or unintentionally passing along bad information. However, the officer in question is also a ruling elder in my denomination, and I have absolutely zero reason to believe he's misleading me on this. If you have evidence to the contrary, please produce it so that I can confront him directly and have the session of his church deal with him in hopes of bringing him to repentance or, should he refuse, removing him from his office as an elder.
 
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tiggy1190

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
Messages
31
Location
Western NC
Forced to pull, and discharge outside of Asheville.

I wont go into all the details, but long story short. Drunk, and drugged up moron threatens me with a knife, then a gun, and advances towards me. I never saw the weapon, but his hands were behind his back the whole time. I knew I was just in taking a shot, but there were at least 30-50 onlookers standing behind him. I have a .40 Storm, and had 180g FMJ's in it that day due to working in the woods around bears. I had an overwhelming fear of over penetration, so I gave a warning shot to the ground just in front of him. He retreated like a scalded cat. So far the BCSD has been extremely positive, and supportive through all this. They said I made the right choice. I feel the same. Sadly, some of my chest pounding family seems to think I should have shot him irregardless. Sorry, but I made the right call. I carry to protect myself, my family, and those around me who may be in harms way. I am not going to jeopardize innocent folks. For the record, if he had continued then yes, I would have fired on him, but that wasn't the case. The SD did tell me he had a small knife in his front right pocket when they arrested him. I filed charges against him for communicating a threat. Just waiting on the SD to finish analyzing my weapon before they return it. All, but one officer that night supported me when the asked if I had a CCHP, and I stated "no, I OC".
 
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Jamesm760

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
429
Location
Salisbury, NC
I wont go into all the details, but long story short. Drunk, and drugged up moron threatens me with a knife, then a gun, and advances towards me. I never saw the weapon, but his hands were behind his back the whole time. I knew I was just in taking a shot, but there were at least 30-50 onlookers standing behind him. I have a .40 Storm, and had 180g FMJ's in it that day due to working in the woods around bears. I had an overwhelming fear of over penetration, so I gave a warning shot to the ground just in front of him. He retreated like a scalded cat. So far the BCSD has been extremely positive, and supportive through all this. They said I made the right choice. I feel the same. Sadly, some of my chest pounding family seems to think I should have shot him irregardless. Sorry, but I made the right call. I carry to protect myself, my family, and those around me who may be in harms way. I am not going to jeopardize innocent folks. For the record, if he had continued then yes, I would have fired on him, but that wasn't the case. The SD did tell me he had a small knife in his front right pocket when they arrested him. I filed charges against him for communicating a threat. Just waiting on the SD to finish analyzing my weapon before they return it. All, but one officer that night supported me when the asked if I had a CCHP, and I stated "no, I OC".

Glad you are ok. I would say you made the right call, but that's just my opinion and everyone will have one too.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
3,428
Location
northern wis
Many have said never fire a warning shot a good article on why at rare times a warning shot is acceptable.

This seems to be one of them.



http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/3110404/posts


Even a small gun can deter an attack A friend said that they had to fire their mini-revolver to convince an attacker that it was a real gun.


Florida is moving toward a "Defensive Display" law that includes the possibility of a warning shot or shots being acceptable as a part of self defense, if no innocents are injured. Arizona passed a similar law several years ago after the aggressors in self defense situations were using the criminal justice system to have the defenders arrested on aggravated assault charges.

In the case that I know of, the aggressors were following the defender in a "road rage" scenario. At one point, they pulled up along side of him, while traveling, and threw a beverage container at him with enough force that it cause a small cut. When he stopped at a light, boxed in by traffic, two of them got out of their vehicle and started running toward him from a couple of cars back. He held up his defensive sidearm for them to see, and they quickly stopped their aggressive actions and ran back to their vehicle. Then they called 911. He was also on the phone to 911. The police came to his house, and eventually arrested him (he thinks that it was because, under stress, he made a bad joke that offended the investigating officer). He was going to trial, when the prosecution informed the defense that there was a third 911 call that confirmed the defender's version of events. The case was dismissed, but there was tremendous stress and expense involved. The aggressors were never arrested or charged.

With the Florida law, the most contentious issue is that of "warning shots". Here is a discussion of the issue from a retired State Patrol firearms instructor. I have edited it a little for spelling, with permission of the author:

I think defensive display can have a place in a self defense situation.

More then one criminal assault has been stopped when it has become know that victim is armed.

Warning shots are a lot tougher because of the high probability of some thing bad happening.

When I was on my Department's firearms and use of force committee, we had a long discussion on warning shots. Some were for forbidding them all together, some were for a more modest policy.

We were trying to determine if the policy should allow or forbid them. We decided the policy should read, that they should be RARE and INFREQUENT, based on the facts at the time they were used.

This was decided mostly on the facts of two situations where warning shots were used and the suspects were taken into custody after the warning shots without harm to the officers or suspects.

Having read the use of force reports and interviewing the officers I truly believe without the warning shots the officers would have ended up shooting both suspects.

It seemed clear that both of these suspects were trying to commit suicide by cop and the warning shots jarred them out of that line of thought and they surrendered because of the warning shots and not pressing forward with their attack on the officers that would have forced the officers to shoot them.

One was armed with a baseball bat the other was not armed, but kept making threats saying he had a gun and making movements like he had a gun and was going to use it.

Both warning shots were fired into good bullet stopping areas and there was no one else around.

Warning shots good, bad, or other wise, I guess one would have to take the totality of the situation into account before determining if they were justified or not and safely executed.
This summation of warning shots seems well thought out. I have always taught a policy of *not* firing warning shots, but with the caveat the every policy has exceptions. The idea that warning shots should be rare, but that each circumstance should be considered in the totality of the situation, appeals to me and to my understanding that each defensive shooting is unique.

In most situations, it is a better resolution to a situation if it can be resolved without having to shoot someone.

©2013 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.
Link to Gun Watch
 
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tiggy1190

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
Messages
31
Location
Western NC
They were very vocal in their approval as to how I handled it. The detective introduced himself when he came to my house the next day, and immediately stated he was not going to tell me I did wrong. He said he wouldve closed the case immediately, but was forced by the higher ups to make sure I wasn't a nut with a gun.
 

solus

Regular Member
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Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
first tiggy, glad you and yours are physically ok from your encounter. your next step is to quit over analyzing the situation and your actions in your mind and with your friends and relatives, etc. it is extremely difficult (especially with SD's asking and asking and could you tell me what occurred again) and while some type of 'what-if-i-did-this-review' is necessary, just do not dwell on over thinking a situation that took seconds to occur as it will put you in a significant bind, heaven forbid, there is a next time you need to respond to a threat, and cause you to make an inappropriate response.

while i know the SD folk seem helpful, but please watch what you say as they could misconstrue a statement and then the DA could decide it is an election year.

as a CYA, do you an attorney to consult, just to tell them what you did and said to SD and possibly plop down a couple of bucks for retainer?

again glad you and yours are ok.

INAL, but you might wish to take down your posting of the account until the SD is finished with their investigation.

ipse
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
I am perfectly aware of the propensity that some LEO's have for intentionally lying to folks about the status of open carry, or unintentionally passing along bad information. However, the officer in question is also a ruling elder in my denomination, and I have absolutely zero reason to believe he's misleading me on this. If you have evidence to the contrary, please produce it so that I can confront him directly and have the session of his church deal with him in hopes of bringing him to repentance or, should he refuse, removing him from his office as an elder.

wow, truly just wow...

sorry southern i asked you for a cite since you made the now identified misstatement...

no way in God's green earth am i going to give you ammunition to go after an elder of your religious community so you can excommunicate them...

quite impressed with the actions of this proselytizing christian...whew...

ipse
 

tiggy1190

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
Messages
31
Location
Western NC
first tiggy, glad you and yours are physically ok from your encounter. your next step is to quit over analyzing the situation and your actions in your mind and with your friends and relatives, etc. it is extremely difficult (especially with SD's asking and asking and could you tell me what occurred again) and while some type of 'what-if-i-did-this-review' is necessary, just do not dwell on over thinking a situation that took seconds to occur as it will put you in a significant bind, heaven forbid, there is a next time you need to respond to a threat, and cause you to make an inappropriate response.

while i know the SD folk seem helpful, but please watch what you say as they could misconstrue a statement and then the DA could decide it is an election year.

as a CYA, do you an attorney to consult, just to tell them what you did and said to SD and possibly plop down a couple of bucks for retainer?

again glad you and yours are ok.

INAL, but you might wish to take down your posting of the account until the SD is finished with their investigation.

ipse


Always good advise, thanks. Tbh though, I haven't given what I did any second thought. I feel as if I handled it as each action took place. He acted, I responded. I am very proud of the way it came out. I have multiple combat tours, and carry enough. As far as an attorney, yes I have one. As far as removing my post you may be ccorrect, but don't want to retract anything that's already on record. Once again, thanks for + input.
 

Liberty-or-Death

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Feb 7, 2014
Messages
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Location
23235
One person makes a post, most folks take that person at his word. But one person doubts, accuses, chides, derides, antagonizes, or otherwise abuses the poster. This is what makes OCDO difficult to bear, IMHO.

Be active.
 

ccwinstructor

Centurion
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
919
Location
Yuma, Arizona, USA
Thank you for the post. Informative.

I believe someone did ask the clerk to call the CMPD, however, I was too busy walking to my car to notice if he did or didn't.

And I didn't walk her to the car because it would have been my luck that someone who had heard her ranting at me inside the store would have called the cops to tell them that some mean man with a gun was harassing a lady in the parking lot, too. :banghead:

Honestly, it was a judgment call on my part. Better to let her take care of herself.

We all have to make judgement calls. I was not there. Please continue to inform us.

God bless you.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
One person makes a post, most folks take that person at his word. But one person doubts, accuses, chides, derides, antagonizes, or otherwise abuses the poster. This is what makes OCDO difficult to bear, IMHO.

Be active.

Liberty or Death, that is what gives 'the cynics' their purpose isn't it?

so following you through to posted your word above, and you want us to take you at your word, which i believe is the intent of your post, if that difficulty on OC's forum is so tough for you to bear in VA, why remain and continue posting?

if i might be indulged, let me be a cynic for a moment and challenge your own posted words...you stay on OC's forum as you feel the need to express your opinion(s) which are often done w/o appropriate cite and hope you are taken at your word, cuz your words are always right?

just saying...

ipse
 
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