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Thread: Birmingham Update

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    Regular Member Jonathon Norris's Avatar
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    Hello all, this is Jonathon Sometimes, decided to change the screen name to my real name. Well, OC'ed a few times at gas stations, to and from the apt., and once on my motorcycle down Hwy. 280. Also, I've been printing out the Alabama tri-fold and leaving copies at all the gun stores that will allow it. Today and yesterday, I OC'ed at the BJCC for the Gun and Knife Show and handed out 50 tri-folds each day. Every time I slung a flyer, I mentioned this website and forum. Rockin an Rollin.
    A wayfarer should not walk unarmed,
    But have his weapons to hand:
    He knows not when he may need a spear,
    Or what menace meet on the road.

    - Odin
    The Havamal

  2. #2
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    Jonathon Norris wrote:
    Hello all, this is Jonathon Sometimes, decided to change the screen name to my real name. Well, OC'ed a few times at gas stations, to and from the apt., and once on my motorcycle down Hwy. 280. Also, I've been printing out the Alabama tri-fold and leaving copies at all the gun stores that will allow it. Today and yesterday, I OC'ed at the BJCC for the Gun and Knife Show and handed out 50 tri-folds each day. Every time I slung a flyer, I mentioned this website and forum. Rockin an Rollin.
    Nice. I was hoping to go to BJCC but had to go elsewhere. Did you have any problems carrying at the convention? I know legally they can't prohibit it (if the building is owned by the city)...

  3. #3
    Regular Member Jonathon Norris's Avatar
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    So if you are on here cuz of the gun show flyer, introduce yourselves. Also, I'm restarting the Birmingham restaurant meetup idea - so if you could make the drive, post your most available times and favorite restaurant. But this time it'll happen if I'm the only person that can make it. And I'll be doing this dance ---->:celebrate
    A wayfarer should not walk unarmed,
    But have his weapons to hand:
    He knows not when he may need a spear,
    Or what menace meet on the road.

    - Odin
    The Havamal

  4. #4
    Regular Member Jonathon Norris's Avatar
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    Nope. No problems. Passed five badges outside, two at the door, and one inside the show. Picked up a surplus IIA vest on the cheap, too. Four of the officers I encountered, I asked if they wanted flyers, and one actually accepted it! He was Sheriff Dept. and was pretty cool. Can't remember the name. Will post when the next gun show is and maybe we can all meetup, at least for the tried and true safe OC environment to hand out some trifolds. Gotta watch out for that pesky demonstration law, tho.
    A wayfarer should not walk unarmed,
    But have his weapons to hand:
    He knows not when he may need a spear,
    Or what menace meet on the road.

    - Odin
    The Havamal

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    I would be more then willing to drive up from Fort Rucker for a dinner. I would hope to have a decent turnout.

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    Jonathon Norris wrote:
    Nope. No problems. Passed five badges outside, two at the door, and one inside the show....
    Forgive me if I'm slow catching on, but do you mean you were able to OC a LOADED handgun into the show itself? I thought they had checkpoints at the entrance to insure that all weapons were unloaded. TIA

  7. #7
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    Jonathon Norris wrote:
    Gotta watch out for that pesky demonstration law, tho.
    It's not entirely pesky as it's pretty narrowly defined.

    Neo wrote:
    Jonathon Norris wrote:
    Nope. No problems. Passed five badges outside, two at the door, and one inside the show....
    Forgive me if I'm slow catching on, but do you mean you were able to OC a LOADED handgun into the show itself? I thought they had checkpoints at the entrance to insure that all weapons were unloaded. TIA
    I'm surprised too. But technically the city can't make any rules prohibiting handguns. I'm guessing that the convention center is at least owned in part by Birmingham. I don't know for sure though.

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    Private Property owners can very well ask anyone to leave at any time for any reason they so choose, however; if the property in question is owned by The City of Birmingham or if the building in question is supported by tax payer dollars, then, Alabama Code 11-45-1.1 would apply vis a vis.

    Remember, although some may be inclined to argue otherwise, clearly established Case Law suggests that where 13A-11-52 and 13A-11-73 conflict the provisions of 13A-11-73 govern, it being the complete revision of the subject matter of carrying Handguns in addition to State Handgun Preemption Law 11-45-1.1.

    Additionally, please do not forget about State-wide Firearms Preemption in General. The same is codified 11-80-11(a), and it also preempts gun shows as well. Even though 11-80-11(b) would allow Birmingham to outlaw discharge of Firearms, outside of Lawful Self-Defense, such action would not be applicable to Handguns, such being Preempted further under 11-45-1.1 above. This, too, is evidenced under Alabama Attorney General ruling 2005-127, so filied wherefore on May. 10, 2005.

    In short, I would be inclined to believe that the open carrying of aLoaded Handgun into a Gun Show thattakes place in a Public Buildingin Birmingham is perfectly Legal underestablished Alabama Code, provided; that if you carry the Handgun concealed on your person or within a Motor Vehicle, then, you would need to first procure a Pistol Permit from Jefferson County.

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    Jonathon Norris wrote:
    ....Today and yesterday, I OC'ed at the BJCC for the Gun and Knife Show and handed out 50 tri-folds each day. Every time I slung a flyer, I mentioned this website and forum. Rockin an Rollin.
    Thank you for such a strong show of support for OC in Alabama and this forum!

  10. #10
    Regular Member Jonathon Norris's Avatar
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    Sorry for being unclear, I did unload at the door. But once outside the venue, where the majority of the tri-folds were handed out, I was loaded with two extra magsweak side.Whatfelt good was walking from the parking spot a block awayin full daylight downtownBirmingham. :-)

    What inspired me to do this was, the last time I was OC'ingat theBJCC gun show, an oldergentleman with aWWII veteran hat on came up and askedmeifhow I was carrying was legal because he was interested in carrying like that.This just absolutely broke my heart. I told him it was and made alittlepromise to myself that I would try to get the word out next time I was there. Now, I'm not a veteran and here's this guy who's seen more and done more for his country than I can imagine, asking ME if he can carry openly. Wow. Hope we can make it where everyone, including him and people like him,won't get hassled for merely excersizing their inaliable right to bear arms openly.
    A wayfarer should not walk unarmed,
    But have his weapons to hand:
    He knows not when he may need a spear,
    Or what menace meet on the road.

    - Odin
    The Havamal

  11. #11
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    aadvark wrote:
    Private Property owners can very well ask anyone to leave at any time for any reason they so choose, however; if the property in question is owned by The City of Birmingham or if the building in question is supported by tax payer dollars, then, Alabama Code 11-45-1.1 would apply vis a vis.

    Remember, although some may be inclined to argue otherwise, clearly established Case Law suggests that where 13A-11-52 and 13A-11-73 conflict the provisions of 13A-11-73 govern, it being the complete revision of the subject matter of carrying Handguns in addition to State Handgun Preemption Law 11-45-1.1.

    Additionally, please do not forget about State-wide Firearms Preemption in General. The same is codified 11-80-11(a), and it also preempts gun shows as well. Even though 11-80-11(b) would allow Birmingham to outlaw discharge of Firearms, outside of Lawful Self-Defense, such action would not be applicable to Handguns, such being Preempted further under 11-45-1.1 above. This, too, is evidenced under Alabama Attorney General ruling 2005-127, so filied wherefore on May. 10, 2005.

    In short, I would be inclined to believe that the open carrying of aLoaded Handgun into a Gun Show thattakes place in a Public Buildingin Birmingham is perfectly Legal underestablished Alabama Code, provided; that if you carry the Handgun concealed on your person or within a Motor Vehicle, then, you would need to first procure a Pistol Permit from Jefferson County.
    Right. Although you can have a permit from any county, or a permit recognised by Alabama.

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    Didn't go this time. How were the prices? I did pick up some reloading dies
    last time, and just missed the attempted armed robbery idiots. Never
    heard about a trial so I guess they plead out. Is it armed robbery when you
    steal the vendors gun, or plain robbery of guns?
    But till they lock up 60 felon Larry, it isn't safe to walk the streets unarmed.:celebrate

    The only problem short term is if the creditors grab up the center from the city/county
    for not paying their bills. Would kill the municipal property restrictions. You can bet
    NY wall street ain't gonna have no guns in their buildings.

    Does an armed motorcycle get better traffic flow on 280 as you walk along side
    the cars?

    Just pick someplace outside the city limits, I am protesting the tax hikes, and
    would only be able to get a glass of tap water.:X

  13. #13
    Regular Member Jonathon Norris's Avatar
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    I believe there's another gun show on or around Jan. 9 and 10th at the BJCC, so mark ya'lls calendars and come on out and OC with me. It'd be really cool if we could get an info booth like the nice Constitution Party and Rainy Day Patriot folks I met inside. This could be our pre-outing warm up.

    Oh and traffic CRAWLS on 280 regardless. You could be dual wielding RPG's and people would just look at you like, 'Wait your turn, buddy.'
    A wayfarer should not walk unarmed,
    But have his weapons to hand:
    He knows not when he may need a spear,
    Or what menace meet on the road.

    - Odin
    The Havamal

  14. #14
    Regular Member Jonathon Norris's Avatar
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    Also, OC'ed into four gun stores and left trifolds at each. Makin the rounds, as it were. Hoover Tactical Firearms said the flyers were goin like hotcakes. Its got that new gun store smell, check it out if you guys are in town. The Gun Cellar down on Hwy. 150 has been supportive, too.
    A wayfarer should not walk unarmed,
    But have his weapons to hand:
    He knows not when he may need a spear,
    Or what menace meet on the road.

    - Odin
    The Havamal

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    I really like the idea of getting a booth at the show

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    Regular Member Monkeytown's Avatar
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    What is this Alabama tri-fold of which you speak?

  17. #17
    Regular Member Jonathon Norris's Avatar
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    http://alabamagunrights.org/wp-conte...2/tri-fold.pdf

    I think that OCDO's own Kurtmax was responsible for putting the site Alabamagunrights.com together and this flyer was part of that. Makes a great conversation starter, I just write www.opencarry.org on the top of the master copy when I print out a bunch.
    A wayfarer should not walk unarmed,
    But have his weapons to hand:
    He knows not when he may need a spear,
    Or what menace meet on the road.

    - Odin
    The Havamal

  18. #18
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    I didn't make the flyer. I don't quite remember who did actually.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Jonathon Norris's Avatar
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    Well, OC'ed to Granny and Pop's for the family Christmas party. It felt really good not hidingmy gunfrom the people I care most about.

    I'll print out around75 trifolds, maybe 100 if I can, for the gun show. Slackware, Kurtmax, Daddyo, rocknsnow, cricket, ...or anybody else down for OC'ing the tried and true safe OC environment of the BJCCGun and Knife Show and slinging flyers with me? January 9th and 10th - Shouldn't take more than acouple hours, back and forth inside the show and outside. Guess we'll just meet at 11am outside the front doors.I'll be there at that time both days, so anybody who wants to show up, just meet there at that time. It would be cool to get a booth, and that's what Open Carry advocates in other states have done, but don't have the $66 right now.

    We can also plot the next move in our eeeevil plan for Alabama, an OCrestaurant outing!!




    A wayfarer should not walk unarmed,
    But have his weapons to hand:
    He knows not when he may need a spear,
    Or what menace meet on the road.

    - Odin
    The Havamal

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    Jonathon Norris wrote:
    We can also plot the next move in our eeeevil plan for Alabama, an OCrestaurant outing!!
    I might also add that you can contact AL Representative Barry Mask and ask what you can do to support OC-clarifying legislation he plans to introduce in January.

    http://www.legislature.state.al.us/h...ios/hd031.html

  21. #21
    Regular Member Jonathon Norris's Avatar
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    Sent Rep. Barry Mask asupportive email asking him to clarify what kind of legislation he's considering. I also suggested he check out trying to overturn vehicle carry laws and may issue permits. Haven't recieved a reply yet, but it's great to hear some one in the House is at least interested!

    I actually saw Gov. Riley in Mark's Outdoors a couple of months back. I'm just standing there holding an XD, and I hear one of the workers say, "Hey Gov." He was withone of hisgrandkids I think, and no security personnel that I saw. His shirt, however, was quite long, and untucked. Completelypossible I witnessed the Gov. CCW'ing on his day off. Haha.

    It took everything I had not to approach him and ask for his support on OC, but as I saw it, he was "off duty."
    A wayfarer should not walk unarmed,
    But have his weapons to hand:
    He knows not when he may need a spear,
    Or what menace meet on the road.

    - Odin
    The Havamal

  22. #22
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    Jonathon Norris wrote:
    Sent Rep. Barry Mask asupportive email asking him to clarify what kind of legislation he's considering. I also suggested he check out trying to overturn vehicle carry laws and may issue permits. Haven't recieved a reply yet, but it's great to hear some one in the House is at least interested!

    I actually saw Gov. Riley in Mark's Outdoors a couple of months back. I'm just standing there holding an XD, and I hear one of the workers say, "Hey Gov." He was withone of hisgrandkids I think, and no security personnel that I saw. His shirt, however, was quite long, and untucked. Completelypossible I witnessed the Gov. CCW'ing on his day off. Haha.

    It took everything I had not to approach him and ask for his support on OC, but as I saw it, he was "off duty."
    Thanks for contacting him. I received a reply when I contacted him, but that was months ago. Hopefully, he's enjoying time with family and will get back to email afterwards.

    I, too, think it would be a good idea to reverse the permit requirement for vehicle carry. However, since this isn't warm, southern California, most of us will need a concealed carry permit several months out of the year or any time we put on a suit coat. Since AL CCWs are issued at the sheriff's discretion, that means we currently need cooperation from their offices. Several AL sheriffs have revoked CCWs based on good, clean OC incidents. Perhaps ultimately we should push to completely revamp AL's current discretionary CCW system into something like TN's "shall-issue" system. This would insure statewide uniformity. As part of that new system, I'd certainly like OC to be left alone as a constitutional right and only require a permit for CC.

    Best regards,
    - Neo

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    I'd like to meet some of y'all at the gunshow next weekend as well. I can be there Sunday.

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    I plan on being there one of the 2 days

  25. #25
    Regular Member Jonathon Norris's Avatar
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    Gun Show went well, had my first "Are you on OpenCarry.org?" comment.. lol (what's up, Para.) Met a bunch of people who were interested, some who were not. Handed out 50 flyers and left 20 more at the two gun stores I frequent.

    Still OC'in in the gas station across the street and to and from the apt mostly. Walked right past asherriff's deputystanding with some peoplefilling out a report rightoutside the apt. Nothing was said, just got in my truck and left.There's no way he couldhave missed the SpringfieldXDm, I passed him strong side, and I had on a white shirt.The more I venture out, the more evident it is that attitude simply is everything.
    A wayfarer should not walk unarmed,
    But have his weapons to hand:
    He knows not when he may need a spear,
    Or what menace meet on the road.

    - Odin
    The Havamal

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