Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Transport Law

  1. #1
    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Kalamazoo, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    987

    Post imported post

    I know non-cpl holding OCers have been harassed by law enforcement for transporting a handgun in their trunk while not on their way to the range, etc.

    Is there any case law or amendment to the law yet to say that the transport law is not exclusive?

    What I'm trying to figure out is if I OCed a long arm, would I be okay driving somewhere with it, or would I have to walk?

    I should really have more knowledge of this, but since I got my CPL I haven't worried about the transport law at all, at least for pistols.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

  2. #2
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,446

    Post imported post

    EM87 wrote:
    I know non-cpl holding OCers have been harassed by law enforcement for transporting a handgun in their trunk while not on their way to the range, etc.

    Is there any case law or amendment to the law yet to say that the transport law is not exclusive?

    What I'm trying to figure out is if I OCed a long arm, would I be okay driving somewhere with it, or would I have to walk?

    I should really have more knowledge of this, but since I got my CPL I haven't worried about the transport law at all, at least for pistols.
    For handguns:
    Yes there is one in the house, that is removing the examples of lawful carry. The bill will just say you can transport a handgun for all lawful purposes. Without a CPL it still has to be unloaded in the trunk, etc. But this should make it clear that all lawful purposes are allowed.

    Attachment: HB5303-SR-1.pdf (Downloaded 28 times)

    You can transport a long gun in a vehicle for all lawful purposes now as long as it's unloaded...trunk, etc.

    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  3. #3
    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Kalamazoo, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    987

    Post imported post

    So, loaded on a motorcycle... not legal?
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Macomb County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,865

    Post imported post

    EM87 wrote:
    So, loaded on a motorcycle... not legal?
    Unless you have a CPL you cannot have a loaded pistol in a motor vehicle which a motorcycle is.

    As far as I understand it you cannot legally have a loaded long gun in a motor vehicle.

    Mike

  5. #5
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,446

    Post imported post

    EM87 wrote:
    So, loaded on a motorcycle... not legal?
    Gray area. MSP says it's lawful as the firearm is in plain site. Others say it's not legal as it's in/on a vehicle. A CPL only applies to handguns.

    But this goes back to RAS. If they stop you for the gun then the stop is in my opinion illegal. They wouldn't have RAS to check the weapon to see if it's legal.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,416

    Post imported post

    Venator wrote:
    EM87 wrote:
    So, loaded on a motorcycle... not legal?
    Gray area. MSP says it's lawful as the firearm is in plain site. Others say it's not legal as it's in/on a vehicle. A CPL only applies to handguns.

    But this goes back to RAS. If they stop you for the gun then the stop is in my opinion illegal. They wouldn't have RAS to check the weapon to see if it's legal.
    Yep. They must articulate reasonable suspicion of criminal activity. That means that they can't do it just to confirm that you are legal. They have to suspect criminal activity based on a totality of circumstances generated from that officer's experience. The gun alone is not enough.

  7. #7
    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Kalamazoo, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    987

    Post imported post

    ghostrider wrote:
    Yep. They must articulate reasonable suspicion of criminal activity. That means that they can't do it just to confirm that you are legal. They have to suspect criminal activity based on a totality of circumstances generated from that officer's experience. The gun alone is not enough.
    I disagree. Say that long gun OC on a motorcycle is not legal (which it may not be). If the cops stop you for that reason, that would be perfectly legal in my opinion because they saw you doing something illegal so they stopped you.

    Thoughts?
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

  8. #8
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,446

    Post imported post

    EM87 wrote:
    ghostrider wrote:
    Yep. They must articulate reasonable suspicion of criminal activity. That means that they can't do it just to confirm that you are legal. They have to suspect criminal activity based on a totality of circumstances generated from that officer's experience. The gun alone is not enough.
    I disagree. Say that long gun OC on a motorcycle is not legal (which it may not be). If the cops stop you for that reason, that would be perfectly legal in my opinion because they saw you doing something illegal so they stopped you.

    Thoughts?
    BUT it is legal to transport a long gun on a motorcycle. You can do so if it's unloaded in a case. A scabbard is a case, therefore you could transport a long gun in a scabbard. They couldn't stop you just to see if the long gun is loaded or not.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  9. #9
    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Kalamazoo, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    987

    Post imported post

    Does the law specify that the gun be affixed to the motorcycle for transport? Does it make a difference in the eyes of the law if a person transports the long gun across their back instead?

    And this means that a sling would not be legal.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

  10. #10
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,446

    Post imported post

    EM87 wrote:
    Does the law specify that the gun be affixed to the motorcycle for transport? Does it make a difference in the eyes of the law if a person transports the long gun across their back instead?

    And this means that a sling would not be legal.
    You have seen the laws posted, they do not address a motorcycle individually. Your interpretation is as good as ours.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  11. #11
    Regular Member SlowDog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Redford, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    424

    Post imported post

    This brings to mind a question I am asked all the time. Can the DNR pull someone over and search the vehicle with out warrant siting RAS that if they are carrying a loaded weapon they might be poaching or road hunting. Now I know this is illegal but the DNR are infamous for such tactics. I once had my freezer raided for game meat check without a warrant while I was at work. My wife was told they could search for game at will in the house. Go figure huh......Just Saying....
    Only two have offered their lives for you. A Soldier and Jesus....

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Not on this website, USA
    Posts
    2,482

    Post imported post

    SlowDog wrote:
    This brings to mind a question I am asked all the time. Can the DNR pull someone over and search the vehicle with out warrant siting RAS that if they are carrying a loaded weapon they might be poaching or road hunting. Now I know this is illegal but the DNR are infamous for such tactics. I once had my freezer raided for game meat check without a warrant while I was at work. My wife was told they could search for game at will in the house. Go figure huh......Just Saying....
    WARRANT, WARRANT, WARRANT!!!

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Macomb County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,865

    Post imported post

    SlowDog wrote:
    This brings to mind a question I am asked all the time. Can the DNR pull someone over and search the vehicle with out warrant siting RAS that if they are carrying a loaded weapon they might be poaching or road hunting. Now I know this is illegal but the DNR are infamous for such tactics. I once had my freezer raided for game meat check without a warrant while I was at work. My wife was told they could search for game at will in the house. Go figure huh......Just Saying....
    They cant pull you over for no RS of a crime. Having a pistol or a rifle doesnt mean you're a poacher or doing anything illegal outside of transporting a pistol or a rifle. If they saw you shooting and creating extra road kill thats another thing.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    625

    Post imported post

    mikestilly wrote:
    SlowDog wrote:
    This brings to mind a question I am asked all the time. Can the DNR pull someone over and search the vehicle with out warrant siting RAS that if they are carrying a loaded weapon they might be poaching or road hunting. Now I know this is illegal but the DNR are infamous for such tactics. I once had my freezer raided for game meat check without a warrant while I was at work. My wife was told they could search for game at will in the house. Go figure huh......Just Saying....
    They cant pull you over for no RS of a crime. Having a pistol or a rifle doesnt mean you're a poacher or doing anything illegal outside of transporting a pistol or a rifle. If they saw you shooting and creating extra road kill thats another thing.
    No matter what your told the DNR has no more power to violate the 4th amendment or any other Amendment/law than any other law enforcement agency.

    They may have a different scope of authority but they still need PC, RAS, & a WARRANT!

  15. #15
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,446

    Post imported post

    SlowDog wrote:
    This brings to mind a question I am asked all the time. Can the DNR pull someone over and search the vehicle with out warrant siting RAS that if they are carrying a loaded weapon they might be poaching or road hunting. Now I know this is illegal but the DNR are infamous for such tactics. I once had my freezer raided for game meat check without a warrant while I was at work. My wife was told they could search for game at will in the house. Go figure huh......Just Saying....
    I fear your wife gave permission unwittingly after perhaps being lied to by the CO.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  16. #16
    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Kalamazoo, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    987

    Post imported post

    Venator wrote:
    You can transport a long gun in a vehicle for all lawful purposes now as long as it's unloaded...trunk, etc.
    Where can I find information on this?
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

  17. #17
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,446

    Post imported post

    EM87 wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    You can transport a long gun in a vehicle for all lawful purposes now as long as it's unloaded...trunk, etc.
    Where can I find information on this?
    This only applies to transporting it in a vehicle. On foot is another matter. The thought is that a loaded long gun carried while on foot is lawful as long as it's not concealed.



    750.227d Transporting or possessing firearm in or upon motor vehicle or self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel; conditions; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
    Sec. 227d.
    (1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a motor vehicle or any self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel a firearm, other than a pistol, unless the firearm is unloaded and is 1 or more of the following:
    (a) Taken down.
    (b) Enclosed in a case.
    (c) Carried in the trunk of the vehicle.
    (d) Inaccessible from the interior of the vehicle.
    (2) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.
    History: Add. 1981, Act 103, Eff. Mar. 31, 1982
    © 2007 Legislative Council, State of Michigan

    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  18. #18
    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Kalamazoo, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    987

    Post imported post

    I'll OC my new-to-me Mosin-Nagant 91/30 to the next OC picnic we have! I've seen the applicable law regarding the carry of a long gun and I see nothing that prohibits it. Of course I'll make sure to get a small game license just to cover my bases. (And a deer license if it's deer season.)

    I doubt a picnic would be any fun in the cold though... might have to wait 'til the spring.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

  19. #19
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SE, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,336

    Post imported post

    EM87 - please see the following thread: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/33017.html

    They vote on changes to the transport law tomorrow (at least in the house)!
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

  20. #20
    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Kalamazoo, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    987

    Post imported post

    PDinDetroit wrote:
    EM87 - please see the following thread: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/33017.html

    They vote on changes to the transport law tomorrow (at least in the house)!
    Thanks :-)
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •