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Thread: Revolvers, .357 Mag or the .41 need some insight

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    Trying to decide on which one to carry, I like the .357mg cause everyone knows it, but I like the .41 cause its not as common, which could be good and bad. I have holsters for them and what not, theyre both right side belt holsters. The only thing is the 41 is a single action, while the 357 is double. Anyway, it may sound stupid to everyone but would like some opinions. 357 is Dan Wesson, and 41 is Sturm and Ruger

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    There is so much more choice in ammo with .357, besides, how can you give up compatibility with the .38 spl for target practice with the same gun?

    Part of the desirablity of the .357 is that it is considered pretty much the most desirable self defense round, (with all due respect to the .45)

    I believe it is because of ammo development more than weapons development.

    For comparison, the .44 magnum is actually less desirable for self defense, obviously not because it offers less power, but because most rounds were developed for hunting and defense against large animals. I believe .41 ammo is developed with the same purposes in mind.

    For self defense, most .44 rounds tend to overpenetrate due to the fact that they were designed to kill large animals.

    I could imagine the .41 offfering a verynarrow choice of off the shelf ammo.

    (Remember to always use off the shelf ammo in self defense)

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    The .41 Magnum was introduced in 1964 as a patrolman's sidearm and was intended for use more in the open areas of the central U.S. than the more urban environs. It never really caught on.

    The .357 is your better choice for a personal sidearm. Very good assortment of ammunition for this caliber and the guns chambered for it are excellent. A proven defensive caliber, the .357 also makes a decent hunting handgun for small to medium game. I killed a whitetail deer with a 6 1/2" Ruger Blackhawk .357 years ago using handloads.


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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    I would carry that D-A .357, and a speedloader, a single action takes too long to reload for a defensive carry gun if you don't stop the threat with the first 6 out of it.

    Southern Boy, Do you need any supplies for that .41Mag, I have brass that has been cleaned, sized & primed, a box of 100 Hornady XTP JHP's, Lee Dies with the factory crimp die.
    I used to shoot a Desert Eagle in .41, And all the brass has been loaded once from new (not fired rounds reloaded, but new unfired brass loaded to my specs) and prepped to be loaded again but I sold the gun.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Nutczak wrote:
    I would carry that D-A .357, and a speedloader, a single action takes too long to reload for a defensive carry gun if you don't stop the threat with the first 6 out of it.

    Southern Boy, Do you need any supplies for that .41Mag, I have brass that has been cleaned, sized & primed, a box of 100 Hornady XTP JHP's, Lee Dies with the factory crimp die.
    I used to shoot a Desert Eagle in .41, And all the brass has been loaded once from new (not fired rounds reloaded, but new unfired brass loaded to my specs) and prepped to be loaded again but I sold the gun.
    I don't own a .41 Magnum nor have I ever owned one. The only revolvers I currently own are two Rugers, one in .357 Magnum (Security Six) and one in .44 Magnum (Ruger Redhawk).

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    The .41 Magnum was introduced in 1964 as a patrolman's sidearm and was intended for use more in the open areas of the central U.S. than the more urban environs. It never really caught on.

    The .357 is your better choice for a personal sidearm. Very good assortment of ammunition for this caliber and the guns chambered for it are excellent. A proven defensive caliber, the .357 also makes a decent hunting handgun for small to medium game. I killed a whitetail deer with a 6 1/2" Ruger Blackhawk .357 years ago using handloads.

    +1

    Southern boy has provided the best advice so far, and is right on target for the genesis of the .41. It was a real popular caliber in Missouri for a while among the game enforcement guys. Since you already own both firearms this is not a purchasing choice and you should make the selcetion based on your specific defense needs.

    you mentioned ...

    I like the .357mg cause everyone knows it, but I like the .41 cause its not as common, which could be good and bad.
    The fact is that what people "know" is not relevant to your selection process, and the carry of an unusual caliber has many more drawbacks than advantages.

    The .357 Mag has been around for a long time. It is a well proven defense round and it come in a wide range of flavors. The particular firearm you have is of high quality and when set up right is very accurate. You cannot go wrong with that firearm if you are going to carry a revolver.

    That said I usually don't carry anything these days if the caliber starts with a number smaller than a 4, but that is because I want to see the hole in anything I shoot and my eyesight is not what it used to be.:what:

    Welcome to the forum

    Carry on
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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    The .41 Magnum was introduced in 1964 as a patrolman's sidearm and was intended for use more in the open areas of the central U.S. than the more urban environs. It never really caught on.

    The .357 is your better choice for a personal sidearm. Very good assortment of ammunition for this caliber and the guns chambered for it are excellent. A proven defensive caliber, the .357 also makes a decent hunting handgun for small to medium game. I killed a whitetail deer with a 6 1/2" Ruger Blackhawk .357 years ago using handloads.

    +1

    Southern boy has provided the best advice so far, and is right on target for the genesis of the .41. It was a real popular caliber in Missouri for a while among the game enforcement guys. Since you already own both firearms this is not a purchasing choice and you should make the selcetion based on your specific defense needs.

    you mentioned ...

    I like the .357mg cause everyone knows it, but I like the .41 cause its not as common, which could be good and bad.
    The fact is that what people "know" is not relevant to your selection process, and the carry of an unusual caliber has many more drawbacks than advantages.

    The .357 Mag has been around for a long time. It is a well proven defense round and it come in a wide range of flavors. The particular firearm you have is of high quality and when set up right is very accurate. You cannot go wrong with that firearm if you are going to carry a revolver.

    That said I usually don't carry anything these days if the caliber starts with a number smaller than a 4, but that is because I want to see the hole in anything I shoot and my eyesight is not what it used to be.:what:

    Welcome to the forum

    Carry on
    Thanks, hawk. I love the .357 for a trail gun where the possibility of running into something as large as a black bear is remote. My 1976 Security Six is in stainless and the quality is beyond question. Plus it's a collector's gun.

    However, for my personal defense sidearms, I also like something that starts with a .4 - the .40S&W specifically, and in one of the modern loads from a major manufacturer. I say this because I want some firepower in the form of both a nice hard hitting round and a quantity of friends waiting in the magazines.

    I would never feel undergunned with a .357, unless I have just sent the last round to target and have no speed loader handy (that's called an oops, I should think). Over the years, I have bought and sold a lot of defensive handguns in search for that elusive "perfect gun", only to find out that age and experience has taught me there ain't no such thing. But there are some that are pretty darned close to that aloof claim. So I am pretty happy with my chosen carry arms and just hope both them and I can do our jobs should the time ever come when we're both called upon to fess up, though I also hope that time never comes.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    All good choices. And I agree with the likelihood of finding a perfect carry weapon. You can get close, but there is always something a particular firearm is not good at that another would be.

    For .357 I have a GP-100 4" and I carried it exclusively for many years. It was very accurate and a natural pointer for my hand. Remind me over coffee sometime and I'll tell you a good story about that gun. Now I carry either a Para .45 auto, a EAA Witness in .45 or a Lew Horton S&W .44 Mag 3". Of course I would be remiss if I did not confess to carrying that S&W .500 in the avatar over there if I will be out wandering in serious wilderness areas.

    Regards
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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    All good choices. And I agree with the likelihood of finding a perfect carry weapon. You can get close, but there is always something a particular firearm is not good at that another would be.

    For .357 I have a GP-100 4" and I carried it exclusively for many years. It was very accurate and a natural pointer for my hand. Remind me over coffee sometime and I'll tell you a good story about that gun. Now I carry either a Para .45 auto, a EAA Witness in .45 or a Lew Horton S&W .44 Mag 3". Of course I would be remiss if I did not confess to carrying that S&W .500 in the avatar over there if I will be out wandering in serious wilderness areas.

    Regards
    Sounds good. You name the time and place and I have the time.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Nutczak wrote:
    I would carry that D-A .357, and a speedloader, a single action takes too long to reload for a defensive carry gun if you don't stop the threat with the first 6 out of it.
    +1

    Not that the rest of the commentary is bad. I just think that everything else being equal, the rapid follow-up shots of a double-action, plus a faster reload are important in a defensive revolver.

    If single-action was the pinnacle, nobody would have bothered with a double-action.
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    Citizen wrote:
    Nutczak wrote:
    I would carry that D-A .357, and a speedloader, a single action takes too long to reload for a defensive carry gun if you don't stop the threat with the first 6 out of it.
    +1

    Not that the rest of the commentary is bad. I just think that everything else being equal, the rapid follow-up shots of a double-action, plus a faster reload are important in a defensive revolver.

    If single-action were the pinnacle, nobody would have bothered with a double-action.
    Fixed it for you - its subjunctive, don't you know.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    Nutczak wrote:
    I would carry that D-A .357, and a speedloader, a single action takes too long to reload for a defensive carry gun if you don't stop the threat with the first 6 out of it.
    +1

    Not that the rest of the commentary is bad. I just think that everything else being equal, the rapid follow-up shots of a double-action, plus a faster reload are important in a defensive revolver.

    If single-action were the pinnacle, nobody would have bothered with a double-action.
    Fixed it for you - its subjunctive, don't you know.

    Yata hey
    Some people complain this forum doesn't have spell-check. Little do they know. I don't think they've been paying attention.

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    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Well thank you all, I do like the .357, I need to go down the semi auto road one of these days, just dont have the cash for it,I dofeel insecure about it cause everyone else i know that carries, carry semi, but anyway Another Question, Apparently these .357 Models were sold with 3 barrels, and were interchange-able, Mine has a six incher, they have 4's and 2's i believe but cannot find them anywhere out there, anyone know what im talking about?

    Thanks

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    Mo.Co. Original wrote:
    Well thank you all, I do like the .357, I need to go down the semi auto road one of these days, just dont have the cash for it,I dofeel insecure about it cause everyone else i know that carries, carry semi, but anyway Another Question, Apparently these .357 Models were sold with 3 barrels, and were interchange-able, Mine has a six incher, they have 4's and 2's i believe but cannot find them anywhere out there, anyone know what im talking about?

    Thanks
    Yea, in fact the pistols were originally packaged in a nice aluminum case with the barrels, gun, and tools. If memory serves there were 4 or 5 different barrel lengths that were standard fair. These were a real nice setup.

    Unfortunately Dan Wesson fell out of popularity because of accusations that his designs were stolen from S&W. All of the court fights finally broke the company financially. You might check Brownell’s for these parts, but other than that look around at gun shows.

    Someone else may have some ideas where you can find the barrels.

    Regards


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    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    If memory serves there were 4 or 5 different barrel lengths that were standard fair. These were a real nice setup.


    My DW 357 pistol pack contained four barrels 2, 4, 6 and 8 , two sets of grips, target and carryit alsocame with a nice brief case and barrel tool.


    The .41 mag was intended to be "the end all be all" patrolman's sidearm/caliber but it was plagued with a poor bullet design and being the late comer to the Magnum arenadidn't stand a real chance.

    The210gr LSWCover penetratedand the JHP didn't expand (common problem) and over penetrated.
    A similar problem plagued the 10mm.

    The NV Highway Patrol issued S&W M57's for many yrs but the load was neutered and it barely out performed .38spl and had more recoil.

    Bullet design has improved this calibers performance but it is stillharder to find and usually more expensive than most common calibers when found.

    Double Tap, Buffalo Bore, Corbon, Remingtonand Winchester all makes ammo.


    IMHO, a DA just makes more sense as a daily carry piece in city/urban areas regardless of caliber.



    I personally use Win 240gr PTHP's for my three41's a S&W M58, Taurus 415SS2C and Marlin 1894C, and have zero complaints with regards to bullet performance.
    The few Mule deer and coyotesI have taken didn't seem to notice I was using a obsolete (ISPO) caliber.

    I may at some time buy/consider a load with alighter weight bullet for urban SD.
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    Did his original point get missed? He has BOTH already. This is not a which is better to buy but which to carry. Answer: Whatever is comfortable on your hip.
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    The Wolfhound wrote:
    Did his original point get missed?Â* He has BOTH already.Â* This is not a which is better to buy but which to carry.Â* Answer: Whatever is comfortable on your hip.
    Yea ... We all knew that. Did you read the WHOLE thread? We answered that question and moved to another.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
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    WheelGun wrote:
    There is so much more choice in ammo with .357, besides, how can you give up compatibility with the .38 spl for target practice with the same gun?

    Part of the desirablity of the .357 is that it is considered pretty much the most desirable self defense round, (with all due respect to the .45)

    I believe it is because of ammo development more than weapons development.

    For comparison, the .44 magnum is actually less desirable for self defense, obviously not because it offers less power, but because most rounds were developed for hunting and defense against large animals. I believe .41 ammo is developed with the same purposes in mind.

    For self defense, most .44 rounds tend to overpenetrate due to the fact that they were designed to kill large animals.

    I could imagine the .41 offfering a verynarrow choice of off the shelf ammo.

    (Remember to always use off the shelf ammo in self defense)
    WHY WHY WHY do people always say to use off the shelf ammo. Can one person show me where someone was convicted of anything because they had hand loads in their gun? NOT ONE!!! What if you are carrying a gun that is hard to find ammo or if I had my 45/120 in my hands when attacked and that was hand load only up til very recently.

    So I use hand loads that make my gun more reliable and more accurate. Not illegal nor does it show I was using hand loads for nefarious reasons. I hit the X better with hand loads which makes me much safer.....and that's what its all about right? right? right?? right!?!?!
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    Mo.Co. Original wrote:
    The only thing is the 41 is a single action, while the 357 is double. Anyway, it may sound stupid to everyone but would like some opinions.
    Doesn't make much sense to for self-defense to carry a SA when you have a DA.



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    It's not about what you have... The gun does not make the man (or woman).

    - It's how you use what you have. A guy who is skilled with a single action will be able to defend himself just as well as a skilled guy with an Automatic. The same fundamental applies to all of life's scenarios. Driving, Sports, Art, Music, even fashion and "being cool"... it's really more about being able to work the issue, not let the issue work you, knowing how to apply the skills you have through the tools available. Driving a Lamborghini does not make you a good driver, just means you have the money to spend. That kid in his Turbo Honda will probably dust you because he actually takes the time to refine his technique, apply his skill to his individual car, and doesn't expect the car to do his driving for him. Same for a firearm. If you expect to have the upper hand in a gunfight, then you need to be the one who lands the shot first. Follow up shots need to be just as accurate, and with a relative speed. I would be happier landing two shots quickly, than missing 8 times at lightning speed. -Count on your skill to save the day, not on your tools. I do acknowledge the point of diminishing returns, where at some point the quality of that tool will in and of itself fail the mission. Picasso did not use crayons, Doc Holiday did not use a bb-gun. But barring those extremely silly comparisons, and in the realm of acceptable tools, skill will far outweigh the capacity of the tools in and of itself.

    - I carry a Single action 45... final thought ... your either quick, or dead.

    -Bat

    P.S. I will however admit that single action six-gunning is NOT for everyone, and to the average, a good double action revolver, or Auto may be better suited... I personally feel that a Mid size double action revolver is the perfect beginners firearm: Simple to operate, relatively safe to manipulate and operate, and almost never jams. To define a skill-set line of easiest to> hardest to be proficient at, I'd go: DA Revolver > SA Auto > DA Auto > SA Revolver.
    .. Just my personal thought here.
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    Batousaii wrote:
    - I carry a Single action 45... final thought ... your either quick, or dead.
    How often to you carry the single action?

    Do you ever carry something else? How often?

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    Regular Member Batousaii's Avatar
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    Hank, good question,

    - I have a good selection of arms, pistols included. For many years i OC'd a .357 Ruger GP100 (DA Revolver) in a drop loop on private property, very comfortable. Those days i would CC a 9mm CZ-75B (DA Auto) when going into town... I still have both.

    - For many years after my main arm was a Colt .45 Auto combat commander (SA Auto) and i still CC that gun when OC is not preferred.

    - I currently OC my SA Ruger Vaquero most of the time, with current weather, it usually gets covered (partially or fully) by one of my coats... or if windy/rainy CC the .45acp

    In my time i have carried many other pistols at various parts of my life, to include: Tokarev 7.62x25, Beretta 25A, 1860 Army replica (cap-n-ball) etc.

    - I feel each type of pistol requires a specific skill set, some obviously being preferred over others. Many ask why i prefer ye-old single action revolver, well, again, simplicity provides a certain elegance in the manipulation of the arm. I feel the natural, almost mystical pointability of that guns shape and balance afford a first shot placement that surpasses any other pistol i have fired. Combined with that models ultra reliability, strength, and ability to fire a caliber that is stout, hard hitting, and gives versatile selection of ammo. The fact that i have a strong synergy with the gun, and confidence in my ability to place rounds quickly on their mark, i would not feel out-gunned or incapable of adequately defending myself in a hostile situation. If i really really needed more, i would consider carrying one of my assault rifles. being that we are not fighting zombies, or ravaging hordes of desert wastelanders, i am confident 6 rounds will be adequate to accommodate any average situation. If things begin to show signs that of apocalyptic nature, i will go to my gun safe and acquire something that fits that requirement. A couple of Thugs? .. They better be fast....

    - Yes, in reality, i could probably do evenmore effective fast hand damage with my .45acp (assuming it was 100% reliable), and even MORE withone of my combat rifles (fn-fal, ak-47, m-14, uzi).. however, Auto's jam, primers fail, parts break... all in all, and all things considered, i trust the ultimate reliabilityof my SA Ruger for my daily ventures through a relatively civilized society with the possibility of encountering an aberrant pre-wastelander.

    Bat

    and P.S. to address the OP topic, if you consider yourself of average skill, i recommend the DA .357. relatively easier to use in a stressful situation, and both .357 and 41 are excellent rounds. I dont think ammo availability is the question when in a defensive situation, since what you have in the gun, and on person for reloads is really what matters. IF you are willing to master the skill of a single action wheelgun, then by all means do so and feel confident once you have refined the art. Simple fact is that most incidents involving firearms in a defensive capability do not include or require a reload, the "slow reload" of a single action is of minimal concern in an average self defense encounter. DO however practice unload and reload drills (use fake rounds or snap caps please) and also consider small back up gun if this is a concern or point of contention. I am considering a modern 2-shot derringer to protect myself during a reload... it would reside in a holster on my gunbelt. I cant reload as fast as an auto, but i am not a snail either, so a backup is an appealing and realistic answer to offset the slow reload.
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    Batousaii this may sound stupid but what are "Snap Rounds"?



    I think im going to stick with the .357 I feel more comfortable with it for now. Have plenty of rounds for it unlike my .41 which I am hard pressed to find rounds anywhere around where I live.

    I am also looking for someone to show me the ropes on reloading properly, I have everything I need to do it, all the dies for .357 .38sp and .41 I just dont know how much powder to put in the round, I have attempted it before and didnt put enough in and the slug got stuck in the barrel, I know sounds stupid but it did happen cause I was affraid of putting too much in and either blowing up when I seated the slug, or when I shot the round

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Location
    Greene County
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    3,844

    Post imported post

    Mo.Co. Original wrote:
    what are "Snap Rounds"?
    http://www.pistoleer.com/azoom/


    This will explain snap caps.
    As far as learning to reload search your local GS to see if any teach a class.

    The easiet way to find .41mag ammo is to order it online.

    Midway and Double Tap usually have some on hand.

    http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseProducts.aspx?pageNum=1&tabId=3&cate goryId=7551&categoryString=653***691***



    http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...hp?cPath=21_88
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

  25. #25
    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Alexandria, Virginia, United States
    Posts
    2,290

    Post imported post

    .357 is the better choice, IMO because it is lighter and easier to present and aim quickly. Plus a wide range of ammo in TWO calibers for ONE weapon, and range practice is that much less expensive.

    As to handloads, I wouldn't use them unless (a) I loaded them myself or (b) I personally knew of the reputation of the person who did the loading. everything from duds to gun explosions can result from wrongly loaded ammo. Although if your weapon blew up in a street confrontation the BG would possibly die from laughing so hard....

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