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Thread: MOC, Inc. activities in meeting our goals and objectives

  1. #1
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Many new participants of this forum may be unaware of the activities of MOC, Inc. Below are a few activities conducted by both MOC, Inc. members and non-members alike in regards to informing the general public and Law Enforcement Agencies about open carry.

    MOC. Inc. does not own or have any control over this forum sponsored by http://www.opencarry.org The vast majority of posters are not members of MOC, Inc. MOC. Inc. therefore is not responsible for the activities of any person whether a MOC, Inc. member or not.

    MOC, Inc. was formed in March of 2009 and its by-laws approved in May, 2009. The Non-profit organizations goals and methods are as follows.

    The objectives of Michigan Open Carry are:
    [/b]
    * To educate and desensitize the public and members of the law enforcement community about the legality of the open carry of a handgun in public.

    *To exercise a natural right to self defense using the most efficient and common tool, a handgun.

    * To demonstrate to the public at large that gun owners are one of the most lawful segments of society and they have nothing to fear from the lawful carry of a firearm.


    Methods to accomplish objectives are:

    * To distribute information via email, mail, telephone and in person to local law enforcement agencies.
    * To have periodic and informal gatherings in public places throughout the state while open carrying our handguns.

    * To contact the media, conduct interviews, relate pertinent information on the internet, write articles and letters to the editors all on the legality of open carry.

    * To participate in larger public events, festivals, car shows, etc., and staff an information booth about open carry.

    * To stay informed of and act against infringing legislation.

    * To always be ambassadors of good will in regards to the safe and lawful carry of a firearm.

    MOC, Inc. Activities to November 30th, 2009.

    [/b]The activities below have been accomplished by MOC, Inc. members and non-members alike in just a few short months. As with all organizations most of the work is accomplished by a few hard working and dedicated individuals and MOC, Inc. would like to thank all those that have help us meet many of our goals and objectives.

    At each of the activities below open carry was discussed and information disseminated to the public as well as LEOs and Law makers. I will say that MOC and others have done a great deal in informing both the public and LEOs about the legality of open carry.

    Corporate Accomplishments:
    [/b]
    Created by-laws.
    Formed a website.
    Formed an acting Board with an election in progress for Vice President and Secretary.

    MOC, Inc. Public Relations and Charitable activities:[/b]
    Attended and help sponsor a charity for leader Dogs.
    Conducted 2 Litter pick-ups.
    Conducted 2 Food Drives for food banks.

    Presentations.[/b]

    State Capitol:
    OC talk to State legislators at the Capitol.
    Spoke in the Rotunda about open carry and the Second Amendment March.
    Contacted Senators Cropsey and McManus and Representatives Sheltrown and Opsommer about Open Carry Issues.

    Oakland County Sportsman’s Club.
    Fowlerville: In God We Trust MC
    New Caledonia Sportsman’s Club-Freedom Shoot.
    Traverse City-Sunset Park
    Tawas-Freedom Fest. OC table manned for a week.
    Jackson Gun Club

    Media coverage:[/b]
    Print: [/b]To read many of these articles see http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/14938.html

    Article on OC in over 26 newspapers including but not limited to the:

    Detroit Free Press
    Oakland Press
    Lansing State Journal
    Flint Journal
    Macomb Daily
    Ann Arbor Chronicle
    Jackson Citizen Patriot
    Kalamazoo Gazette
    Traverse City Record Eagle
    Interviewed by Handguns Magazine on OC. (Tentative issue February 2010)

    Radio:
    [/b]Duran Martinez’s AM Outdoors (Syndicated throughout the State of Michigan.
    WMJZ-Michigan Outdoor Adventures With Jim Miller. (interviewed twice)
    WTCM 580 AM: The [/b]Norm [/b]Jones [/b]Show (interviewed twice).
    Saturday Afternoon Shootout: Brian Jeffs, President MOC, Inc. and Jerry Brewer Sgt at Arms MOC, Inc.-Hosts. A Bi monthly internet talk show about gun rights and personal freedoms.

    TV:
    Traverse City-local station.
    Public gatherings to promote OC.
    Since December 2007 there have been over 65 events throughout the state to spread the word about OC. To see a list and read about many of these events see http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/15478.html

    Some of the larger events were:
    State Capitol Lobby (1 day)
    Jay’s Sporting Goods (Clare) Lobby (2 days.)
    Tawas-Freedom Fest (7 days)
    Bath Day’s Festival (2days)
    Mud Bog-Morrice (1 day)
    Coloma Rod and Gun Club
    Coloma Peach Fest.
    Albion Festival of the Forks

    Law Enforcement Agencies:
    [/b]
    Sent OC packet to all 83 County Sheriffs.

    Contacted the MML’s LEAF about OC. See newsletter on OC here http://www.mml.org/insurance/shared/publications/leaf_newsletter/2009_04.pdf

    Contacted several local PD’s of which a few are listed below.
    Meridian Township
    Bath Township

    Detroit PD
    Warren PD
    Lansing PD
    East Lansing PD
    South Haven PD
    Traverse City PD
    Redford PD
    Grand Rapids PD
    Portage PD
    Kalamazoo PD
    Jackson PD
    St Helen PD
    Tawas PD
    Flint PD
    Burton PD
    Battle Creek PD
    Houghton and Hancock PDs
    Frankenmuth PD
    Westland PD
    Canton PD
    Metro Parks PD
    Owosso PD
    Corunna PD
    Oxford PD
    Wyandotte PD
    Morrice PD
    Coloma PD

    Fund-raising:[/b]

    MOC, Inc. Shooting competition
    MOC, Inc. and SAM CPL class

    Discussed OC and MOC, Inc. with several attorneys. Working on retaining a corporate attorney.
    Have assisted members and non-members who have negative interactions with LEOs.

    51 businesses in 20 counties have placed an MOC OC WELCOME sticker on their doors.

    MOC, Inc. Purchased:[/b]

    3000 OC brochures.
    5 MOC Banners for events.
    5 Safety first Banners for events.
    Open Carry welcome stickers
    Display Table and table skirt
    MOC Coffee mugs and key rings (Memberships and fundraising)
    “Guns Save Lives” Buttons.

    Second Amendment March affiliation:[/b]

    The President of MOC, Inc. is also on the Board of Directors for the March and is the Michigan Coordinator. So far with MOC, Inc. help and the help of so many of Michigan’s great gun owners he has raised over $12,000 for the March. This amount is about a third of the entire amount raised nation-wide. Being affiliated with a National organization enhances our image and provides an audience for the Open Carry community.








    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Generaldet's Avatar
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    A great start for such a young organization. I look forward to the future. We can do some great things together.

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    lets keep up the good work

  4. #4
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Good Stuff!!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Other things you can add are the Jackson Gun Club presentation you did, and a few weeks prior to that ZZZ and Kimberguy were there handing out MOC pamphlets and educating the public. That is where I learned about it.

    Also, Cabman did the Albion Festival of the Forks MOC booth.

  6. #6
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    T Vance wrote:
    Other things you can add are the Jackson Gun Club presentation you did, and a few weeks prior to that ZZZ and Kimberguy were there handing out MOC pamphlets and educating the public. That is where I learned about it.

    Also, Cabman did the Albion Festival of the Forks MOC booth.
    Added to list.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Law Enforcement Agencies:

    Send OC packet to all 83 County Sheriffs.




    shouldnt send be sent?

  8. #8
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    cabman1 wrote:
    Law Enforcement Agencies:

    Send OC packet to all 83 County Sheriffs.




    shouldnt send be sent?
    Fixed.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  9. #9
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    I think it would behoove everyone to read the first part of the first post in this thread... It might help put into perspective the whole MOC vs OCDO as relates to responsibility for events and what might happen at these events.

    The key is every person whether an MOC member or not makes their own decisions and choices. This sometimes leads to actions that may not be favorable to the organization and it's goals in some peoples eyes.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  10. #10
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    CV67PAT wrote:
    This is my reply to a similar query in another thread:

    CV67PAT wrote:
    Bikenut wrote:
    autosurgeon wrote:
    First MOC did NOT organize this event. A few MOC members were at the event. After the problems with the Lansing police MOC brass communicated with the Lansing PD and the situation has been resolved nicely.

    MOC will be coming out with guidelines to help folks more easily organize events. One of the things that needs to be done is every event must have a designated contact for the property owner. This person needs to be at the location prior to the event and the property owner needs to know that if any concerns come up that this person will take care of it.

    Please correct me if I am mistaken.... and please understand that I am asking for clarification and not complaining.

    Any "events" organized by individuals using this forum for communication are not MOC events?

    Odd that since reading the stickies at the top concerning the objectives and methods of MOC

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/13328.html

    combined with the other sticky about planning get togethers

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/16628.html

    definitely left me with the impression that any and all "events" organized on the forum were under the umbrella of MOC.

    Obviously I had the wrong impression about the whole thing.

    I suspect others may have had, or do still have, the same misunderstanding.
    The first link is a posting about MOC getting their site up and an outline of their objectives etc. It doesn't make any connection therein between MOC and OCDO. That post is utilizing OCDO to diseminate information about MOC.

    The second link is an undertaking by an "individual" to establish some criteria for posting events. He isn't even in Michigan. And in each of the subsequent posts in that thread there isn't even any mention of MOC at all.

    Eve in this sticky:

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/15478.html

    It is titled as "Michigan Events Schedule Thread". It was prepared by an "individual" in an attempt to centrally locate events that are planned in Michigan.

    It says... "Attention open carry members" and NOT "attention Michigan Open Carry, Inc members".

    There is mention by the OP there for the MOC RTMs to forward him information about MOC events, but that is simply for inclusion of the events in the thread.

    If you look throught the deliniated events you will notice that some have MOC in their title and others do not. That is a clear distinction between the two. The ones that say MOC blah blah blah are "official/sanctioned" MOC events.

    The others are merely events organized by individuals for particpation by anyone interested. This not to say that non-members can not attend "official" MOC events. I believe that it just means that participation in those events shall be in accordance with the stated objections contained in the Mission Statement of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. as present on the homepage of it's website.

    http://www.miopencarry.org/page.php?HomePage

    I hope that this is helpful in clearing up some of the confusion.
    This is the original thread I cut it from:

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/reply.php?topic_id=37570&post_id=646843&qu ote=1

    Hopefully this will help to see where there is a seperation of the organizatios, even though MOC utilizes OCDO to disseminate information in cooperation with the owners of OCDO.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    I, for one, understand the differences quite well now. Thank you.

    Hence neither MOC nor OCDO will be given any further recognition, or even mention of, while I, as an individual, go forward in an effort to further the education of, or to make openly carrying a sidearm an acceptable activity for, the public. That includes word of mouth or any printed material.

    Edited to be perfectly clear.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Bikenut wrote:
    I, for one, understand the differences quite well now. Thank you.

    Hence neither MOC nor OCDO will be given any further recognition, or even mention of, while I, as an individual, go forward in an effort to further the education of, or to make openly carrying a sidearm an acceptable activity for, the public. That includes word of mouth or any printed material.

    Edited to be perfectly clear.
    Don't be so hasty to jump ship.

    While I am for the participation of all lawful activities, as they pertain to OC, I also support the objectives of MOC.

    Since I am a supporter, I will participate in their activities in accordance with their stated policy.

    MOC doesn't have, to my knowledge, a stated "position" on long gun OC. They simply choose handguns as the tool to accomplish their objective.

    To reject MOC for utilizing a specific tool does a great disservice to the entire OC movement.

    Do you reject the NRA because of it open opposition to OC in any form?

    MOC is not rejecting long gun OC. Nor is it non-supportive of it. It just uses the OC of a handgun as a means by which to accomplish it's objectives.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Thank you for clarifying Pat.

    Bikenut there is no way any organization can take responsibility for the actions of it's members all of or part of the time... BC we are free we get to choose what we do and therefor sometimes actions may be taken that reflect poorly (at least in some people's opinion) on the movement or either OCDO or MOC.

    When someone chooses to OC they have a great responsibility and their gun or guns are their responsibility not OCDO's or MOC's

    If a person does something that is foolish they have to pay for it... not OCDO or MOC.

    Finally what we must do is realize that poor communication was the cause of the Lansing debacle and not so much what was OCed. If the owner had known who in the group was the event contact he likely would have talked to that person first.

    This was a learning experience and it needs to be treated as such... IE we all need to move on and make the open carry movement and MOC better!!


    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    CV67PAT wrote:
    Bikenut wrote:
    I, for one, understand the differences quite well now. Thank you.

    Hence neither MOC nor OCDO will be given any further recognition, or even mention of, while I, as an individual, go forward in an effort to further the education of, or to make openly carrying a sidearm an acceptable activity for, the public. That includes word of mouth or any printed material.

    Edited to be perfectly clear.
    Don't be so hasty to jump ship.

    While I am for the participation of all lawful activities, as they pertain to OC, I also support the objectives of MOC.

    Since I am a supporter, I will participate in their activities in accordance with their stated policy.

    MOC doesn't have, to my knowledge, a stated "position" on long gun OC. They simply choose handguns as the tool to accomplish their objective.

    To reject MOC for utilizing a specific tool does a great disservice to the entire OC movement.

    Do you reject the NRA because of it open opposition to OC in any form?

    MOC is not rejecting long gun OC. Nor is it non-supportive of it. It just uses the OC of a handgun as a means by which to accomplish it's objectives.
    Long guns? Perhaps there is some confusion with a different poster and a different discussion/thread?
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  15. #15
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    There is a lot to be said about all this strutting.

  16. #16
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    Bikenut wrote:
    CV67PAT wrote:
    Bikenut wrote:
    I, for one, understand the differences quite well now. Thank you.

    Hence neither MOC nor OCDO will be given any further recognition, or even mention of, while I, as an individual, go forward in an effort to further the education of, or to make openly carrying a sidearm an acceptable activity for, the public. That includes word of mouth or any printed material.

    Edited to be perfectly clear.
    Don't be so hasty to jump ship.

    While I am for the participation of all lawful activities, as they pertain to OC, I also support the objectives of MOC.

    Since I am a supporter, I will participate in their activities in accordance with their stated policy.

    MOC doesn't have, to my knowledge, a stated "position" on long gun OC. They simply choose handguns as the tool to accomplish their objective.

    To reject MOC for utilizing a specific tool does a great disservice to the entire OC movement.

    Do you reject the NRA because of it open opposition to OC in any form?

    MOC is not rejecting long gun OC. Nor is it non-supportive of it. It just uses the OC of a handgun as a means by which to accomplish it's objectives.
    Long guns? Perhaps there is some confusion with a different poster and a different discussion/thread?
    Please explain your rejection of MOC then. I'm confused.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    autosurgeon wrote:
    Thank you for clarifying Pat.

    Bikenut there is no way any organization can take responsibility for the actions of it's members all of or part of the time... BC we are free we get to choose what we do and therefor sometimes actions may be taken that reflect poorly (at least in some people's opinion) on the movement or either OCDO or MOC.

    When someone chooses to OC they have a great responsibility and their gun or guns are their responsibility not OCDO's or MOC's

    If a person does something that is foolish they have to pay for it... not OCDO or MOC.

    Finally what we must do is realize that poor communication was the cause of the Lansing debacle and not so much what was OCed. If the owner had known who in the group was the event contact he likely would have talked to that person first.

    This was a learning experience and it needs to be treated as such... IE we all need to move on and make the open carry movement and MOC better!!

    So much confusion over a simple thing...

    MOC, with it's stickies and it's use of the forum, gives the impression that any "event" organized on the forum is connected to MOC.

    Then, when there is conflict.. MOC takes great pains to make it clear that any events set up on the forum are the actions of individuals and are not affiliated with MOC, including posting stickies, without making it clear those stickies are individuals and not MOC.

    My point, and I was quite clear in my earlier post, is very simple. I don't, nor does anyone, need events posted under the umbrella of MOC (we can argue that all day but the perception, by posters and others, is still there) in order to work to further the societal acceptance of open carry. But if MOC is quick to distance itself from those efforts while allowing the implication that MOC is behind these events... then I will distance myself.. and my efforts... from MOC.

    Below is an example of MOC allowing the implication that the Lansing incident had something to do with MOC.

    autosurgeon wrote:
    -snip-
    Finally what we must do is realize that poor communication was the cause of the Lansing debacle and not so much what was OCed. If the owner had known who in the group was the event contact he likely would have talked to that person first.

    This was a learning experience and it needs to be treated as such... IE we all need to move on and make the open carry movement and MOC better!!

    This is the sort of thing that I am taking issue with.

    Of course no organization can take responsibility for any illegal actions taken by an individual. I'm not talking about that... nor am I talking about long guns.

    Sheesh!

    Oh, before someone jumps in and starts shouting "anti!" let it be known that I was openly carrying my sidearm, and gently educating folks, long before it became a "movement".

    Edited for punctuation and spellink... oops..
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  18. #18
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    And like many of us have said this is why eventually we need to have our own forum to keep there from being these types of misunderstandings.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  19. #19
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    Bikenut wrote:
    autosurgeon wrote:
    Thank you for clarifying Pat.

    Bikenut there is no way any organization can take responsibility for the actions of it's members all of or part of the time... BC we are free we get to choose what we do and therefor sometimes actions may be taken that reflect poorly (at least in some people's opinion) on the movement or either OCDO or MOC.

    When someone chooses to OC they have a great responsibility and their gun or guns are their responsibility not OCDO's or MOC's

    If a person does something that is foolish they have to pay for it... not OCDO or MOC.

    Finally what we must do is realize that poor communication was the cause of the Lansing debacle and not so much what was OCed. If the owner had known who in the group was the event contact he likely would have talked to that person first.

    This was a learning experience and it needs to be treated as such... IE we all need to move on and make the open carry movement and MOC better!!

    So much confusion over a simple thing...

    MOC, with it's stickies and it's use of the forum, gives the impression that any "event" organized on the forum is connected to MOC.

    Then, when there is conflict.. MOC takes great pains to make it clear that any events set up on the forum are the actions of individuals and are not affiliated with MOC, including posting stickies, without making it clear those stickies are individuals and not MOC.

    My point, and I was quite clear in my earlier post, is very simple. I don't, nor does anyone, need events posted under the umbrella of MOC (we can argue that all day but the perception, by posters and others, is still there) in order to work to further the societal acceptance of open carry. But if MOC is quick to distance itself from those efforts while allowing the implication that MOC is behind these events... then I will distance myself.. and my efforts... from MOC.

    Below is an example of MOC allowing the implication that the Lansing incident had something to do with MOC.

    autosurgeon wrote:
    -snip-
    Finally what we must do is realize that poor communication was the cause of the Lansing debacle and not so much what was OCed. If the owner had known who in the group was the event contact he likely would have talked to that person first.

    This was a learning experience and it needs to be treated as such... IE we all need to move on and make the open carry movement and MOC better!!

    This is the sort of thing that I am taking issue with.

    Of course no organization can take responsibility for any illegal actions taken by an individual. I'm not talking about that... nor am I talking about long guns.

    Sheesh!

    Oh, before someone jumps in and starts shouting "anti!" let it be known that I was openly carrying my sidearm, and gently educating folks, long before it became a "movement".

    Edited for punctuation and spellink... oops..
    Ahh. I understand.

    I'm not speaking on behalf of MOC. I am merely identify certain aspects as I see them differentiated.

    Thanks for your clarification. I understand your position and respect you for it.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    CV67PAT wrote:
    Ahh. I understand.

    I'm not speaking on behalf of MOC. I am merely identify certain aspects as I see them differentiated.

    Thanks for your clarification. I understand your position and respect you for it.
    Thank you Sir. Perhaps this would be a good time to make it perfectly clear that I have no animosity for any individuals within the organization named "MOC" or any poster on this forum.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  21. #21
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    Bikenut wrote:
    CV67PAT wrote:
    Ahh. I understand.

    I'm not speaking on behalf of MOC. I am merely identify certain aspects as I see them differentiated.

    Thanks for your clarification. I understand your position and respect you for it.
    Thank you Sir. Perhaps this would be a good time to make it perfectly clear that I have no animosity for any individuals within the organization named "MOC" or any poster on this forum.
    I never thought you did.

    You posts are rational, logical, and insightful with respect to your opinions. You articulate you beliefs well.

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