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Thread: Say No Way to Alaska Carry in Montana

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    Alaska-carry legislation - beware of inform and disarm clause
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swV_eOrAp9Y

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    Regular Member Hendu024's Avatar
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    I just saw that the other night, and thought "wow, that's f*cked up."

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    Regular Member MT GUNNY's Avatar
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    If I'm not mistaken, but a Alaskans does not need a permit to carry Concealed, Correct?

    I found it: http://www.touchngo.com/lglcntr/akst...Section780.htm

    The reason I ask is because it specifically states in the Concealed Carry laws that:

    http://www.mtssa.org/akcwplaw.htm

    Sec. 18.65.750 Possession and display of permit.

    (a) A permittee shall carry the permit at all times the permittee carries a
    concealed handgun. The permittee shall display both the license and other
    proper identification when asked to do so by a peace officer at any time.
    (b) Whenever a permittee who is carrying a concealed handgun is contacted by
    a peace officer, the permittee shall immediately inform the peace officer that
    the permittee is carrying a concealed handgun under the permit.
    (c) During a contact with a permittee, a peace officer may secure a handgun,
    or direct that it be secured, during the duration of the contact if the peace
    officer determines that the action is necessary for the safety of any person,
    including the peace officer, present. The permittee shall submit to the
    securing of the handgun.
    (d) In this section, "contacted by a peace officer" means stopped, detained,
    questioned, or addressed in person by the peace officer for an official
    purpose.
    (e) A person who violates (a) of this section is guilty of a violation and
    upon conviction may be punished by a fine of not more than $100.
    (f) A person who violates (b) or (c) of this section is guilty of a class A
    misdemeanor.



    This law here : http://www.touchngo.com/lglcntr/akst...Section800.htm

    AS 18.65.800. Possession of Firearms in Motor Vehicles.

    (a) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the state, a municipality, or a person may not adopt or enforce a law, ordinance, policy, or rule that prohibits or has the effect of prohibiting an individual from possessing a firearm while that individual is within a motor vehicle or prohibiting an individual from storing a firearm that is locked in the individual's motor vehicle while the motor vehicle is otherwise legally parked in or on state or municipal property or another person's property. This section applies only to possession of a firearm by an individual who may legally possess a firearm under state and federal law.

    (b) This section does not limit a person's rights or remedies under any other law.

    (c) The state, a municipality, or a person is not liable for any injury or damage resulting from the storage of a firearm in the vehicle of another individual in accordance with this section.

    (d) Notwithstanding (a) of this section, an employer or its agent may prohibit the possession of firearms within a secured restricted access area, as defined in AS 29.35.145 (e)(2), in a vehicle owned, leased, or rented by the employer or its agent or in a parking lot owned or controlled by the employer within 300 feet of the secured restricted access area that does not include common areas of ingress and egress open to the general public. The employer or its agent shall post conspicuous notice of the prohibition against possession of firearms at each entrance to the restricted access area and affected parking area.





    So unless there is a law that says otherwise. One should let the officer know he or she has a gun in there possession if they have a Concealed Carry Permit.
    Apparently if one doesn't have a Concealed Carry Permit then: Sec. 18.65.750 Possession and display of permit. doesn't Apply!

    Any Competent Lawyer Could argue my point and make it stick!



    Further More, If there is a law that says the cops can make a record of the Serial and make of a gun during a stop it should be Shown with the video.That way we mayhave a legitimate reason to try to change it. If there is not and the cops up there are making a record, some one should Raise Hell!



    Here are my recourses:

    http://www.touchngo.com/lglcntr/akstats/statutes.htm

    http://www.mtssa.org/gunlaws.phtml

    Note: some sources like OC.org and NRA-ILA Maps,both say you must inform, Im sure they see what i have shown but are covering there buts. They also Do Not Show a Statute Code for there words.





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    Regular Member MT GUNNY's Avatar
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    As a matter of fact For a officer to justify this action :

    (c) During a contact with a permittee, a peace officer may secure a handgun,
    or direct that it be secured, during the duration of the contact if the peace
    officer determines that the action is necessary for the safety of any person,
    including the peace officer, present. The permittee shall submit to the
    securing of the handgun.

    He must first establish, if the the person he has detained has a CCPermit.

    So the real Crime in that video was the fact the officer didn't ask the guy if he had a CC permit. Just because the driver informed the officer he has guns doesn't permit the officer to doit either.



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    Montana could very well go to Alaska/Vermont carry without any problem whatsoever. In fact, in Montana, it is already perfectly legal to conceal carry in a rural area, provided; the person in quetion is not in a City/Town/Mining Area/Lumbering Area/Mill Area/etc..

    Montana, I believe, is a primary candidate to go to a full fledge carry Law without any governmental encroachment on as to how one may carry His Firearm/Weapon.

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    Regular Member MT GUNNY's Avatar
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    We almost had it happen, HB228 had a provision that would have made ok to CC in city limits without a Permit. HB 228 is law now but is missing a few things that we will work on next time.

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    well this one is a tough one........i mean if i were a LEO i would definately want to know if someone i stopped for commiting a crime was carrying........i think all of us would, and in a state like Alaska where no permit is required, there is a possibility that every single person stopped is carrying.

    I hate having to fork over my piece to LEO's at their request, i hate having to tell them that im carrying period.........but at the same time i understand why. not everyone out there are like those on this board. we carry for self defense but if someone just beat the hell out of their wife.......and gets pulled for not using a blinker they could easily wait till the officer turns away and blow his head off while legaly carrying a weapon...............its a $hitstorm on both sides really........

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    Regular Member MT GUNNY's Avatar
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    I don't have a Problem with telling a Officer that I'm carrying. That simple Information can put the officer at attention and to be alert which he should be anyway. However for Speeding, Blinkers, other such offenses,thetakingof one personal belongings is totally unconstitutional. Thankfully here in Montana there is no dutyto inform, usually when i get pulled over the Officer can see that I have a Firearm, and they have never taken one from me for any reason.

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    Regular Member 40s-and-wfan's Avatar
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    jay75009 wrote:
    well this one is a tough one........i mean if i were a LEO i would definately want to know if someone i stopped for commiting a crime was carrying........i think all of us would, and in a state like Alaska where no permit is required, there is a possibility that every single person stopped is carrying.

    I hate having to fork over my piece to LEO's at their request, i hate having to tell them that im carrying period.........but at the same time i understand why. not everyone out there are like those on this board. we carry for self defense but if someone just beat the hell out of their wife.......and gets pulled for not using a blinker they could easily wait till the officer turns away and blow his head off while legaly carrying a weapon...............its a $hitstorm on both sides really........
    All good points here, but my only argument is do you really think a criminal is going to worry about having a valid CCW permit if they intend on killing anyone? Do you think the scumbag that killed the 4-cops in Washington had (or was even concerned with) whether or not his concealed carry permit was valid? I highly doubt it.

    Criminals will do what they want, when they want. I don't think there's a problem with Alaska/Vermont carry. I wish it would have passed with HB-228 but some idiot with the title of Chief of Police in Missoula kinda' quashed it!!
    In a crisis you don't rise to the occasion, but rather default to your level of training.

    Forgiveness is between them and God. It's my job to arrange the meeting.
    -John W. Creasy (Man on Fire)

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    http://www.fletc.gov/training/programs/legal-division/videocasts/terry-frisks.html/
    TERRY FRISKS - this by FLECTC / U.S. Capitol (WDC) Civilian Peace Officer

    Does not take into account Montana Law and the recently passed and signed by the Governor H.B. 228 in regard to OPEN (no permit required) and concealed carry (no permit required except in the city limits)

    http://laws.leg.mt.gov/laws09/LAW0203W$BSRV.ActionQuery?P_BLTP_BILL_TYP_CD=& P_BILL_NO=&P_BILL_DFT_NO=LC0672&Z_ACTION=F ind&P_SBJ_DESCR=&P_SBJT_SBJ_CD=&P_LST_ NM1=&P_ENTY_ID_SEQ=

    http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/2009/billpdf/HB0228.pdf


    ++++++++++++++++++
    Peace Officers should always assume everyone is ARMED,because everyone should be armed 24/7. Therefore, no need to inform a Peace Officer that one is armed, it is just that simple.

    No one should be a Peace Officer if one is afraid or uncomfortable standing around Citizens that are armed whether open or concealed, this is not an issue of Officer Safety with or without a stinking govtpermit.

    No Citizen should be disarmed unless breaking a law, traffic violations do not fall into this category, unles DUI, etc.

    No Citizen's firearms should be run by a Peace Officer with their serial number and Peace Officers should never record serial numbers on firearms unless the firearm was used to commit a crime.

    All of this is illegal defacto collection of information, about gun owners by name / address and the guns by serial numbers therefore make and model, etc they have, for storage in a govt data base to eventually take away guns and to track and harass people - People Control.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Just follow the Second Amendment word for word, which amounts to that any Citizencarry anything anywhere anytime anyway one wants too without any harassment by anyone!

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    Regular Member AB's Avatar
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    40s-and-wfan wrote:
    jay75009 wrote:
    well this one is a tough one........i mean if i were a LEO i would definately want to know if someone i stopped for commiting a crime was carrying........i think all of us would, and in a state like Alaska where no permit is required, there is a possibility that every single person stopped is carrying.

    I hate having to fork over my piece to LEO's at their request, i hate having to tell them that im carrying period.........but at the same time i understand why. not everyone out there are like those on this board. we carry for self defense but if someone just beat the hell out of their wife.......and gets pulled for not using a blinker they could easily wait till the officer turns away and blow his head off while legaly carrying a weapon...............its a $hitstorm on both sides really........
    All good points here, but my only argument is do you really think a criminal is going to worry about having a valid CCW permit if they intend on killing anyone? Do you think the scumbag that killed the 4-cops in Washington had (or was even concerned with) whether or not his concealed carry permit was valid? I highly doubt it.

    Criminals will do what they want, when they want. I don't think there's a problem with Alaska/Vermont carry. I wish it would have passed with HB-228 but some idiot with the title of Chief of Police in Missoula kinda' quashed it!!
    LEO in Vermont (no permit required) don't require any of this BS! , Why? Because it's a "Right" that isconstitutionally protected. Legislation of this kindonly affects "law abiding citizens". Criminals Never Comply!

    When you give up your right to say nothing, you stomp on the constitution "big time", don't fall for it.

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    In Montana when LEO runs your license plate, if you have a CC permit, that information is relayed to them at the same time as your other info...



    Just so you know.....

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    Regular Member AB's Avatar
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    pete petosa wrote:
    Just so you know.....
    Wyoming is the same way but we are talking about legislation to remove the permit requirement.

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