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Thread: Speeding Ticket Discussion

  1. #1
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    Nutczak wrote:
    PDinDetroit wrote:
    mikestilly wrote:
    There is a sneaky bridge on Grand River in Novi that drops from 50 to 35 JUST FOR THE BRIDGE!

    Please correct me if I've missed something or have it incorrect.
    mikestilly - MI passed a law a while back that sets the default speed limit at 50 or 55 MPH, unless a traffic study has been performed for that stretch of roadway. I could not find it yet in the MCL's, but have attached a link to an article from earlier this year about roadways in Kalamazoo. I would do a bit of research and see what the MCL says and if this roadway has had a study done that supports this 35 MPH speed limit. If no study was done, you will not have to pay for this ticket!

    http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/...ory_polls.html

    Sorry for the OT guys!
    Actually that is a federal law, it can be found in the federal MUTCD book. http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/
    To properly set a legal speed limit, a traffic speedsurvey must be done which takes the average speed of the 85th percentile, and rounds it up to the nearest 5MPH increment. This survey must be done every 5 years for a speed limit to be valid otherwise it is known as "An Invented Numeric" with no scientific backing and therefore unenforcable.
    In court, the prosecutor should have the latest speed survey as evidence, if they do not, you stand a good chance of have your motion for dismissal granted for lack of evidence. (if your not in a kangaroo court like so many little towns have where theprosecutor is having 3-somes with the judge and his daughter and his sister is also his mother)
    1) So EVERY road (including expressways?) has to have this survey done evey 5 years?

    2)So if you ever get a speeding ticket should you always fight it and ask for this survey in court?

    3) I watched that video the other day with the teacher and LEO talking about "Never Talking to the Police". Even when getting a stopped for something as simple as speeding. Lets say you are doing 10-15 over the speed limit and get caught. Many cops will usually give you a 5 over instead of writingeyou up for what you were technically going over the speed limit (at least that's been my case over the years).

    What if when the LEO stops you you don't say ANYTHING to him, just hand him your paper work (and disclose if you are carrying). He asks you questions, but you remain "silent". Don't you think he's more likely to write you up for the full speeding amount? Granted you shouldn't have been breaking the law.

    But might it be better to talk in this situation as long as you don't answer questions like "do you know how fast you were going"? Maybe a response to that question could simply be "I had the cruise control set" (as long as you had the cruise control set so you are not lieing). If he/she asks "what was it set at" you could respond "I had the cruise control set" and leave it at that.

    What are your thoughts?

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    [user=27081] [/b]
    "do you know how fast you were going"

    What are your thoughts?
    never answer it like I did .Yes officer I do.
    Officer;well then how fast where you going
    :Me: About as fast as you where when you pulled me overI received the ticket for every mile I was over!!!

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    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Do you know how fast you were going?

    Answer:

    Well Officer (say his name, its on his uniform), I know what my speedomoter said, and to be honest I'm hoping you don't show to traffic court, also thank you so for your service to our community.

    Here is your ticket.

    Have a blessed day Officer (name).
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

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    T Vance wrote:
    1) So EVERY road (including expressways?) has to have this survey done evey 5 years?

    2)So if you ever get a speeding ticket should you always fight it and ask for this survey in court?

    3) I watched that video the other day with the teacher and LEO talking about "Never Talking to the Police". Even when getting a stopped for something as simple as speeding. Lets say you are doing 10-15 over the speed limit and get caught. Many cops will usually give you a 5 over instead of writingeyou up for what you were technically going over the speed limit (at least that's been my case over the years).

    What if when the LEO stops you you don't say ANYTHING to him, just hand him your paper work (and disclose if you are carrying). He asks you questions, but you remain "silent". Don't you think he's more likely to write you up for the full speeding amount? Granted you shouldn't have been breaking the law.

    But might it be better to talk in this situation as long as you don't answer questions like "do you know how fast you were going"? Maybe a response to that question could simply be "I had the cruise control set" (as long as you had the cruise control set so you are not lieing). If he/she asks "what was it set at" you could respond "I had the cruise control set" and leave it at that.

    What are your thoughts?
    My thoughts are to answer a direct question pertaining to the stop. You may get the full ticket, but it depends on what else you have to lose by answering their questions. Try to get the conversation back to the stop. If they start fishing I clam up. get it? fishing, clam....we'll I thought it was funny.

    Ultimately it's up to the person and the situation.

    LEO: Do you now why I stopped you?

    Me: no sir.

    LEO: How fast were you going?

    Me: I don't know.

    LEO: Have you had any alcoholic drinks tonight?

    Me: Do you think I have?

    LEO: I asked you if you had anything to drink tonight?

    Me: Sir, am I free to go?

    LEO: NO

    LEO: Where are you coming from?

    Me: I'm not going to discuss my personal activities with you. Am I free to go?

    LEO: NO you are not, answer my questions.

    Me: Sir, If I'm being detained I want an attorney and I won't be answering any more questions.

    LEO: Well ok then, you are free to go. Just keep the speed down.

    (Alright this last line is fantasy, but maybe someday.)





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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Me: I don't know.
    So you were being careless? :?


    And clams are bi-valves, not fish. :P



    Ahhhh traffic tickets...... yes, I've had MORE then my fair share.

    I must say, for the most part, a CPL is as close to a "get out of jail free card" as you can get save for actually being LE, FF or something like that.

    I have also been honest and up frontwith certain LEO. If they are just driving around and I do something stupid and they pull me over I admit screwing up, and yes, this works for me.

    If the LEO is working at his 2nd job of revenue collection, saying just about, damn near anything WILL NOT HELP YOU, no matter what. Fight it and hope they don't show up to court.

    Also, try not to be the only one on the road.

    If you're going to speed, don't be the fastest one out there and DON"T make sudden moves(fast lane changes) it catches LEO's attention. You want to blend in.

    "It's the nail that is sticking up that get hammered down"

    Yes I understand how some of what I said is contrary to what we've learned about talking to LEO but driving and OC really do have different rules.

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    Ok my story on tickets. I use to get pulled over for everything. Really to the point I had the feeling they were watching me or had me on a list.

    I fight all my tickets to try to discredit the leo even if I was with out a doubt at fault.

    Story goes

    At stoplight guy next to me revving engine lookin over gives a nod I oblige him.
    Speed on road is 45 I'm on outside lane he is on inside lane. up on the side road to the left they sat waiting.

    Light changed. We were off. By the time we passed by them I had a half of car on the other guy and was comming out of second gear doing just under 45 when I seen them on the side road. I bumped it to 5th and eased up as the other guy passed by me.

    I seen the leo trying to get off side road and figured I would be the target. So I stopped on a side road and waited.
    Leo: do you know why I pulled you over?

    Me: nope!

    Leo: sir are you in a hurry?

    Me: was I speeding?

    Leo: sir that's not what i asked you! SIR I ASKED ARE YOU IN A HURRY?

    Me: and I ASKED WAS I SPEEDING!!

    Leo: SIR!! I ASKED IF YOU WERE IN A HURRY?

    Me: AND I ASKED YOU! WAS I SPEEDING!

    Leo: SIR IM NOT GOING TO ASK AGAIN!! ARE YOU IN A HURRY!

    Me: GOOD BUT WAS I SPEEDING!?!?
    Gotta set this up because he was POed and getting hot because I wasn't answering his question. I could see I was getting under his skin.
    Leo: WELL SIR I DIDN'T GET YOU ON RADAR!

    Me: WELL I GUESS I'M NOT IN A HURRY THEN!

    At this time he snatches my DL and info out of my hand and grumbles back to his car.

    Girlfriend says your getting a ticket because your being an ass. Said I disagree he was fishing for me to admit I was guilty or that I didn't know how fast I was going so he COULD write me a ticket! I'm not getting a ticket!

    Leo: sir I'm letting you off with a warning!

    (lost it at this point started LMAO!)
    Me: WARNING FOR WHAT!?!? Sill laughing said no no you do your job! don't give me any break and do what you have to!

    He handed back my stuff and walked away.

    Looked at my woman and said see.

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    Venators schpiel is just about perfect, except for stating that he does not know how fast he was going. That just got him a guilty verdict by admitting he did not know the speed he was traveling and makes the cops evidence more solid.

    My reply to the question "Do you know how fast you were going"?
    "Yes officer I do, I was traveling at the maximum allowable posted speed limit and not 1 MPH over the posted speed limit, my speedometer and GPS displayed speed are both accurate and working fine"

    You want to mention the GPS during the stop, but do not argue the point, this will give you some fodder in court if it gets there.

    Now I know this may shock some of you, but some cops will lie in court about what you said during the stop. I have seen them lie by saying the defendant admitted they were speeding when they did not.

    Do not argue a ticket on the side of the road, you will never ever win, keep your mouth shut, be as forgettable as possible so the cop does not go out of his way to make sure you are found guilty.

    I have received 1 single speeding ticket in my life, and I was not speeding at the time. I was coming home as 3:45 A.M., the only truck on the snow covered roads, and had a bored rookie cop looking to get a DWI arrest to brighten up the holiday he was forced to work on. I got a roadside sobriety test that went into 30 minutes long, refused the search of my vehicle, he threatened holding me to get a warrant, I called his bluff it pissed him off, and he wrote me for 16 over because I would not let him get probable for anything else. He lied and lied and lied in court. With me knowing how the judge and prosecutor are, I stated "No Contest" because I knew I was not going to be able to wade through the pile of bull excrement this idiot spewed all over the floor.

    I have been stopped for speeding, and pointed out the limitations of the radar being pointed at multiple cars and asked how he could determine which vehicle made the radar display the speed he stated. I did not argue, I asked questions and put doubt into the conversation.

    The weirdest one I have been stopped for was on my motorcycle, in busy traffic, but somehow this guy picked me out of a pack of cars and trucks with a radar beam over 60 feet wide and said I was the one speeding. I was moving the same speed as everyone else for safety reasons. He was nice enough to do a self-test on the radar with the tuning forks and showed me how a vibrating tuning fork makes the radar display a certain speed. ThenI said; "That thing uses vibration to determine speed?" And asked If I could start my motorcycle and have him aim the radar at it while it is standing still. He agreed and guess what. the radar displayed that my motorcycle was traveling at 43MPH while it was standing still, the same speed he said he tagged me at. he did that about 7-8 times and the same speed appeared for a stationary target.

    Radar is not infallible, cops can read it wrong,it can be affected by outside forces, laser is not perfect either, but is harder to prove.
    Just remember in court it is the prosecutor's duty to prove your guilt, it is not your job to prove your innocence. but sadly municipal courts do not usually operate this way, the judge is usually some attorney that was not good enough to have a private practice, or it is even some schmo off the street.

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    I've also heard, from a former LEO (Colorado State Trooper), that if you get busted for speeding (example 70mph in a 55 zone) and the cop writes the ticket for less (giving you a break) that you can fight those tickets in court, and probably win.

    He said: 1.) The cop has proof that you were going 70mph, not the 60mph he wrote you for. And 2.) He signed the ticket stating that you were going 60mph in a 55 zone, with is a lie, because you were going 70mph in that zone.


    I don't know if it works or not, but it sorta makes sense
    Rand Paul 2016

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    Yooper wrote:
    I've also heard, from a former LEO (Colorado State Trooper), that if you get busted for speeding (example 70mph in a 55 zone) and the cop writes the ticket for less (giving you a break) that you can fight those tickets in court, and probably win.

    He said: 1.) The cop has proof that you were going 70mph, not the 60mph he wrote you for. And 2.) He signed the ticket stating that you were going 60mph in a 55 zone, with is a lie, because you were going 70mph in that zone.


    I don't know if it works or not, but it sorta makes sense
    Well I tried this in Isabella County. I was going 82 and he wrote it for 75 (5 over), I tried to use the approach you mention. I said it was up to the Government to prove their case.

    The first thing the cop does is tell the magistrate that he wished to change the ticket from 75 to 83. I asked the magistrate if he could do that and she said yes. I didn't want to risk the higher points and fine so I plead guilty to 5 over.

    I still don't know if the cop could do that or not. A magistrate wouldn't lie would they???
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    As far as I'm concerned, after the cop hands in the ticket, it's evidence.

    Any change is tampering with evidence.

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    This is! what I do (in bold). This was an actual stop (Mind you I was fresh out of LE).

    Cop: Sir do you know why I pulled you over?
    Me: Yes sir.

    Cop: You do?
    Me: YES sir.

    Cop: Do you mind telling me what is is that I pulled you over for?
    Me: Hopefully because you have probable cause that a traffic violation has been committed!

    Cop: You were sitting back there at the gas station w/o a seat belt on.
    Me: I apologize I was under the impression that I was on private property.

    Cop: Yes sir but then you pulled out into traffic.
    Me: I put my seat belt on. (As I was going thru a 4 way stop intersection)

    Cop: After you saw us
    me: You were way back there (meaning that I put my seatbelt on just because & not because I saw them pull out)

    Cop: That's the idea
    Me: Well you did your job you got me to put my seat belt on, is there anything else?

    Cop: What is that hanging from your rear view mirror?
    Me: It's a Garfield Air freshener.(It was literally a flat cardboard cut out Garfield air freshener)

    Cop: Are you aware it is not suposed to be hanging from the r.v mirror?
    Me: no I wasn't aware of that (as i yanked it down).

    Me: Anything else?
    Cop: no need to give me smart ass remarks!

    Me: Well I don't like being pulled over for no reason!
    Cop: is that an exhaust leak I hear?

    Me: no it is the number 7 spark plug fouling out from idling too long! (171,000 miles) I have a receipt for a brand new 2 day old exhaust put on by Muffler n go. Would you like to see the receipt?

    Cop: No!
    Cop: Just remember to wear your seat belt.
    Me yes sir!

    Half the game is knowing the law/your rights, the other half is not being timid, yet not to be disrespectful.

    I believe state law is 257.627 Speed limitations. (any road not posted is 50+ mph)

    The federal law being posted I believe pertains to a new hwy or ones built with Federal monies. If you read the state law it is easy to get out of a ticket.



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    conservative85 wrote:


    The federal law being posted I believe pertains to a new hwy or ones built with Federal monies. If you read the state law it is easy to get out of a ticket.

    Kinda close but,
    all roads are maintained with federalmoney. Unless the prosecutor can prove that the road you were on did not receive one single cent of federal money they are bound by the federal MUTCD, and many states have simplyaccepted the federal MUTCD as their own guidelines (WI has done this)
    The Purpose of the MUTCD is to make sure all signs and markings are similar from state to state. For instance you are driving on a 4-lane divided highway, the typical speed is 40 MPH, it is very rare that you will find one with a lwer speed limit, because the design of the highway was made for traffic traveling at that speed. then you find yourself in another state, on a 4-lane highway but it is marked at 25MPH, chabces are the speed limit is bogus and unenforcable under federal law.

    Time to get into laser's yet?
    What do you think the width of a laser beam is at 1500', Was it handheld? what is keeping that beam from sweeping other vehicles nearby and registering their speed instead of your own?
    When was the last time the laser aiming device waschecked for accuracy at that distance? It may be off by 7-8 feet.

    There is caselaw in New Jersey that laser speed detection must be limited to 1,000' or less and it has been succesfully used as a defense in other states. The LTI 20/20 is frought with errors and was the first and most popular unit out there for years, their use has fallen off though.

    Radar, many states have mandated that an independent lab must verify calibration at least annually, check to make sure the unit used on you has undergone these independent tests, make sure the tuning forks used for the self test are the correct serial numbers for that radar unit, ask to see them in court, ask the witness to recite theserial numbers of the unti that belong with those forks, ask if he/she has personally verified they are correct, look for dings in the forksthat may throw off the frequency of vibrations. When was the last time the forks have been checked by an independent lab?

    It is all about putting doubt into the evidence presented against you.

    Some models of dashmounted radar will read the fan speed of the defroster, and they required a plate covering the defroster vents to read correctly. How close to the windshield is the radar antenna? How far away is the tuning for supposed to be from the antenna when used? how can the officer check calibration with the fork if he cannot get it in front of the antenna because the windsheild is in the way?

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    Nutczak wrote:
    conservative85 wrote:


    The federal law being posted I believe pertains to a new hwy or ones built with Federal monies. If you read the state law it is easy to get out of a ticket.

    Kinda close but,
    all roads are maintained with federalmoney. Unless the prosecutor can prove that the road you were on did not receive one single cent of federal money they are bound by the federal MUTCD, and many states have simplyaccepted the federal MUTCD as their own guidelines (WI has done this)
    The Purpose of the MUTCD is to make sure all signs and markings are similar from state to state. For instance you are driving on a 4-lane divided highway, the typical speed is 40 MPH, it is very rare that you will find one with a lwer speed limit, because the design of the highway was made for traffic traveling at that speed. then you find yourself in another state, on a 4-lane highway but it is marked at 25MPH, chabces are the speed limit is bogus and unenforcable under federal law.

    Time to get into laser's yet?
    What do you think the width of a laser beam is at 1500', Was it handheld? what is keeping that beam from sweeping other vehicles nearby and registering their speed instead of your own?
    When was the last time the laser aiming device waschecked for accuracy at that distance? It may be off by 7-8 feet.

    There is caselaw in New Jersey that laser speed detection must be limited to 1,000' or less and it has been succesfully used as a defense in other states. The LTI 20/20 is frought with errors and was the first and most popular unit out there for years, their use has fallen off though.

    Radar, many states have mandated that an independent lab must verify calibration at least annually, check to make sure the unit used on you has undergone these independent tests, make sure the tuning forks used for the self test are the correct serial numbers for that radar unit, ask to see them in court, ask the witness to recite theserial numbers of the unti that belong with those forks, ask if he/she has personally verified they are correct, look for dings in the forksthat may throw off the frequency of vibrations. When was the last time the forks have been checked by an independent lab?

    It is all about putting doubt into the evidence presented against you.

    Some models of dashmounted radar will read the fan speed of the defroster, and they required a plate covering the defroster vents to read correctly. How close to the windshield is the radar antenna? How far away is the tuning for supposed to be from the antenna when used? how can the officer check calibration with the fork if he cannot get it in front of the antenna because the windsheild is in the way?
    No disrespect intended & I don't want to get into a debate on states rights, or the constitutionality of a Federal Law. For the sake of debate... Regardless if you were Detected on radar, using the K-band, or laser, bottom line is the way the state law is written.

    257.627 Speed limitations.Sec. 627.
    (1) A person operating a vehicle on a highway shall operate that vehicle at a careful and prudent speed not greater than nor less than is reasonable and proper, having due regard to the traffic, surface, and width of the highway and of any other condition then existing. A person shall not operate a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than that which will permit a stop within the assured, clear distance ahead.
    Lets say I was Sighted by an officer for 10 over the posted speed limit of 55 (suggested) on a sunny day, low traffic volume, & good road conditions. I can go to court and argue that the road conditions, weather, and traffic all warranted the speed I was traveling. I could win.


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    I'll probably get eaten alive for this. I've been pulled over a bunch of times in the past 10 years...most of the time because i was speeding. Of the 20 or so times i got pulled over, i only got a ticket once, which was later reduced to "impeding traffic" no points, no record, they just wanted their 100 bucks.

    My trick? HONESTY. That and i pull way to the right so the officer doesn't have to stand out in the lane of traffic...if it is night, i also roll down my window and turn on my dome light as i'm coming to a stop. then i keep my hands on the steering wheel until the officer arrives at my window.

    Do you know why i pulled you over tonight?

    yes officer, i was speeding

    do you know how fast you were going
    no, i am not certain, but fast enough to get pulled over

    lisc, reg, ins please

    10 mins later i'm usually on my way. In my experience, cops don't really want to give you a ticket. If the only thing you are doing wrong is what they pulled you over for (speeding) then they are much more likely to let you go than if you also have something else wrong....like expired license, no proof of ins, no seat-belt etc.

    If you have 2 or more things wrong ie: speeding and can't locate your proof of insurance, then you are almost certainly getting a ticket for one of the infractions.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    I am ticketless but have been pulled over before a few times..

    How are you?

    Until I seen you officer i really didnt think things could get any worse :P

    "enter lie here" ( I will say if it is a male officer I usually talk about having just got my ass handed to me in a divorce ... heh )

    never been ticketed >.>

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