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Thread: Contacted State Legislator

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    Hi All,

    I got in touch with my state senator and house reps regarding introducing a bill to permit concealed carry on university campuses. I got an email back indicating that the senator was going to have the judicial affairs committee analyst start drafting a bill.

    Universities, as we all know, are places where we are defenseless, sitting ducks. I was thrilled that I got a pro-2nd amendment response and a commitment to at least look into it.

    Is anyone else willing to contact their state reps/senator?

    Doug

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    I'm a Pima/UofA student; my 21st birthday roughly coincides with the start of the 2010 Spring semester, and I would love to carry concealed. I do contact Republican members of the legislature to support concealed carry on campus and have gotten positive responses (the Tucson Democrats - Aboud, Lopez, Garcia, and Heinz -- don't respond to *any* RKBA related messages that I send. Screw 'em. )

    Right now all of the focus is on the budget and how much state-sponsored education is going to get cut, so things like constitutional carry and campus carry might not happen until the legislature lets Brewer get her way on sales taxes.

    Btw, are you an actual professor? Care to divulge where you teach? We need more people in academia who are actually concerned about gun rights.

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    I am a faculty member at ASU and also at University of Phoenix. I am not a tenured professor, so I have to be discreet with what I say. I completely agree that we need to have more folks in academia who stand up for gun rights. So often, people presume that liberalism and education are mutually inclusive, when they in fact are not.

    I worked briefly at the legislature a few years back and I think that they can get other bills through even though the budget is all consuming. Especially with the recent violent outbursts at campuses, I think we need to allow folks to be armed.

    I plan to continue making my voice heard on this to my district's state delegation.

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    Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the 'no firearms' rules seen on college campuses in AZ were a matter of school policy, and not an actual state law. If that's the case, short of an override-type law (such as the parking lot law that overrides property rights for guns in vehicles), I wouldn't think that our legislature COULD do anything about it.

    Might be a case for PUBLIC schools like ASU to not be able to enact such nonsense 'rules' as no firearms allowed.

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    I looked at the signs and they all reference ARS Chapter 13. I called ASU PD and was told it is state law that leads to the "no weapons" signs. Not 100% sure that school policy isn't in there somewhere, but this is what I was able to find.

    Since public universities are owned by the state and are funded in large part by public money, how could they prohibit firearms if the statutes were amended?

    -Doug

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    Thoreau wrote:
    Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the 'no firearms' rules seen on college campuses in AZ were a matter of school policy, and not an actual state law. If that's the case, short of an override-type law (such as the parking lot law that overrides property rights for guns in vehicles), I wouldn't think that our legislature COULD do anything about it.

    Might be a case for PUBLIC schools like ASU to not be able to enact such nonsense 'rules' as no firearms allowed.
    The prohibition of weapons on college campuses comes from the 13-2911 statute, and the Administrative Code of Arizona Title 7, which allows the Board of Regents to make rules against weapons which is actually in conflict with state preemption with regard to government buildings and firearms storage:

    D. The appropriate governing board of every educational institution shall adopt rules pursuant to title 41, chapter 6 for the maintenance of public order on all property of any educational institution under its jurisdiction that is used for educational purposes and shall provide a program for the enforcement of its rules. The rules shall govern the conduct of students, faculty and other staff and all members of the public while on the property of the educational institution. Penalties for violations of the rules shall be clearly set forth and enforced. Penalties shall include provisions for the ejection of a violator from the property and, in the case of a student, faculty member or other staff violator, the violator's suspension or expulsion or any other appropriate disciplinary action. A governing board shall amend its rules as necessary to ensure the maintenance of public order. Any deadly weapon, dangerous instrument or explosive that is used, displayed or possessed by a person in violation of a rule adopted pursuant to this subsection shall be forfeited and sold, destroyed or otherwise disposed of pursuant to chapter 39 of this title.

    Strike out that part of the law and replace it with language that denies the ability of the university to interfere with the right of students and faculty to carry weapons -- with severe fines for professors, students, and administrators if they try to deny that right.

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    Wow, hadn't seen that part of the law before. Definitely good infor to have. Gotta love how the law contradicts itself =)

    Makes me glad I don't work in that industry anymore, or have a current need to frequent them.

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    packinprofessor wrote:
    ...people presume that liberalism and education are mutually inclusive, when they in fact are not.
    I don't have a degree specifically because extreme leftism and hate of America are the exclusive subjects taught in every college classroom I have ever been in. Actual academics are rare, and openly frowned upon, in favor of constant propaganda for the far left.

    Maybe it's just where I live. But I have no respect for people with degrees that expect it to mean anything other than that they are Socialists. Educated, I've never seen.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    ixtow wrote:
    packinprofessor wrote:
    ...people presume that liberalism and education are mutually inclusive, when they in fact are not.
    I don't have a degree specifically because extreme leftism and hate of America are the exclusive subjects taught in every college classroom I have ever been in.* Actual academics are rare, and openly frowned upon, in favor of constant propaganda for the far left.

    Maybe it's just where I live.* But I have no respect for people with degrees that expect it to mean anything other than that they are Socialists.* Educated, I've never seen.
    I would have to respectfully disagree. While your generalization is 99% true, it is not true all the time. I just had lunch this afternoon with another colleague who is a gun fanatic and also an academic. Don't lump all of us together.

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    packinprofessor wrote:
    ixtow wrote:
    packinprofessor wrote:
    ...people presume that liberalism and education are mutually inclusive, when they in fact are not.
    I don't have a degree specifically because extreme leftism and hate of America are the exclusive subjects taught in every college classroom I have ever been in. Actual academics are rare, and openly frowned upon, in favor of constant propaganda for the far left.

    Maybe it's just where I live. But I have no respect for people with degrees that expect it to mean anything other than that they are Socialists. Educated, I've never seen.
    I would have to respectfully disagree. While your generalization is 99% true, it is not true all the time. I just had lunch this afternoon with another colleague who is a gun fanatic and also an academic. Don't lump all of us together.
    It's still a lot of time and money to invest in something that is only 1% or less of what it is advertised to be.

    Sadly, 'higher education' has become nothing more than a convenient way for Leftists to inflict their new breed of nepotism. You have to have their programming, and piece of paper saying you've been programmed, or no job for you! Skill, knowledge, experience, intelligence, etc... All irrelevant.

    "Are you a member of the Far Left Club?" That's all it is. Even for the 1%; I can Google more than that. I think it is an incredible insult to legitimately worthwhile people, and the occasional earnest educator (which you presumably are).
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    ixtow wrote:
    packinprofessor wrote:
    ixtow wrote:
    packinprofessor wrote:
    ...people presume that liberalism and education are mutually inclusive, when they in fact are not.
    I don't have a degree specifically because extreme leftism and hate of America are the exclusive subjects taught in every college classroom I have ever been in.* Actual academics are rare, and openly frowned upon, in favor of constant propaganda for the far left.

    Maybe it's just where I live.* But I have no respect for people with degrees that expect it to mean anything other than that they are Socialists.* Educated, I've never seen.
    I would have to respectfully disagree. While your generalization is 99% true, it is not true all the time. I just had lunch this afternoon with another colleague who is a gun fanatic and also an academic. Don't lump all of us together.
    It's still a lot of time and money to invest in something that is only 1% or less of what it is advertised to be.

    Sadly, 'higher education' has become nothing more than a convenient way for Leftists to inflict their new breed of nepotism.* You have to have their programming, and piece of paper saying you've been programmed, or no job for you!* Skill, knowledge, experience, intelligence, etc...* All irrelevant.

    "Are you a member of the Far Left Club?"* That's all it is.* Even for the 1%; I can Google more than that.* I think it is an incredible insult to legitimately worthwhile people, and the occasional earnest educator (which you presumably are).
    Um.

    Every single wealthy person I know of is college educated. The extra wealthy tend to be of republican minded, but still have a degree. Your chances of success in life are severely hindered if you do not pursue higher learning. It is rather simple to play along and ignore "leftist" remarks and ideals in a classroom setting. Get your degree and make your own impression on the planet.

    I mean more power to ya if you wanna make 30K/year for the rest of your life, but that wouldn't sit well with me. At all.

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    Ixtow,

    I couldn't agree with you more. I give students top grades when they argue a point with which I 100% disagree, as long as they argue it well. I can't stand the vast majority of college students who are like zombies and take in everything they hear. I tell my students to be skeptical of me and to check out my sources and facts.

    LuvmyXD9, I agree that many wealthy people are college-educated and are conservative (pragmatists). HOWEVER the issue is more surrounding those who never leave college and stay there. Those folks are the worst offenders. All of the crap that is spewed in higher education wouldn't last for a New York minute in most areas of the private sectoe!

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    LuvmyXD9 wrote:
    ixtow wrote:
    packinprofessor wrote:
    ixtow wrote:
    packinprofessor wrote:
    ...people presume that liberalism and education are mutually inclusive, when they in fact are not.
    I don't have a degree specifically because extreme leftism and hate of America are the exclusive subjects taught in every college classroom I have ever been in. Actual academics are rare, and openly frowned upon, in favor of constant propaganda for the far left.

    Maybe it's just where I live. But I have no respect for people with degrees that expect it to mean anything other than that they are Socialists. Educated, I've never seen.
    I would have to respectfully disagree. While your generalization is 99% true, it is not true all the time. I just had lunch this afternoon with another colleague who is a gun fanatic and also an academic. Don't lump all of us together.
    It's still a lot of time and money to invest in something that is only 1% or less of what it is advertised to be.

    Sadly, 'higher education' has become nothing more than a convenient way for Leftists to inflict their new breed of nepotism. You have to have their programming, and piece of paper saying you've been programmed, or no job for you! Skill, knowledge, experience, intelligence, etc... All irrelevant.

    "Are you a member of the Far Left Club?" That's all it is. Even for the 1%; I can Google more than that. I think it is an incredible insult to legitimately worthwhile people, and the occasional earnest educator (which you presumably are).
    Um.

    Every single wealthy person I know of is college educated. The extra wealthy tend to be of republican minded, but still have a degree. Your chances of success in life are severely hindered if you do not pursue higher learning. It is rather simple to play along and ignore "leftist" remarks and ideals in a classroom setting. Get your degree and make your own impression on the planet.

    I mean more power to ya if you wanna make 30K/year for the rest of your life, but that wouldn't sit well with me. At all.


    Hate to contribute to the derailing of this thread any further (I do fully support what the OP is working to accomplish here, especially since I've worked for the hell that is UoP before...) but I call BS on your little jab, and herd mentality regarding 'higher education.'

    To say that one MUST have a degree to get anywhere in life is 100% BS. Always has been, always will be. Kids are pressured to get 'good grades' in high school, or they wont get into an awesome ubercollege. Then they're pressured to excel at that (and by that, I don't mean excel at UNDERSTANDING and COMPREHENSION, but just at grades again.)

    I have no degree, and no plans to get one. I got most of my education from the public school system in Harrisburg Pennsylvania (k-10th), spent one year in the PV school district, dropped out, got my GED at 16. I had landed a 30k/yr job just a couple weeks after turning 18 working for another local school district with nothing more than a few technology classes here and there, and a lot of self-taught effort. Last year I grossed over 70k. Again, still no degree.

    I have friends who INSIST that 'education is where its at' and to an extent, I will always agree that knowledge is power. Higher education, unfortunately, does not do anything to instill knowledge, but instead works to burden young and ignorant students with massive loan debt, keep them out of the real workforce (which skews unemployment numbers since students usually don't factor into those numbers) and indoctrinates students.

    My friends can keep on blowing money they don't have on classes they don't understand, just to get that degree. I'll just keep on working my ass off like I have all my life and get places based on how good I am at what I do instead of basing it on which diploma mill I made a substantial donation to.

    In short, PLEASE stop trying to perpetuate the myth that one can't do shitin life without a degree. It's insulting to those of us with an IQ over 60. Sorry for the rant, but this subject is one of my biggest pet peeves with modern society.


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    LuvmyXD9 wrote:
    ixtow wrote:
    packinprofessor wrote:
    ixtow wrote:
    packinprofessor wrote:
    ...people presume that liberalism and education are mutually inclusive, when they in fact are not.
    I don't have a degree specifically because extreme leftism and hate of America are the exclusive subjects taught in every college classroom I have ever been in. Actual academics are rare, and openly frowned upon, in favor of constant propaganda for the far left.

    Maybe it's just where I live. But I have no respect for people with degrees that expect it to mean anything other than that they are Socialists. Educated, I've never seen.
    I would have to respectfully disagree. While your generalization is 99% true, it is not true all the time. I just had lunch this afternoon with another colleague who is a gun fanatic and also an academic. Don't lump all of us together.
    It's still a lot of time and money to invest in something that is only 1% or less of what it is advertised to be.

    Sadly, 'higher education' has become nothing more than a convenient way for Leftists to inflict their new breed of nepotism. You have to have their programming, and piece of paper saying you've been programmed, or no job for you! Skill, knowledge, experience, intelligence, etc... All irrelevant.

    "Are you a member of the Far Left Club?" That's all it is. Even for the 1%; I can Google more than that. I think it is an incredible insult to legitimately worthwhile people, and the occasional earnest educator (which you presumably are).
    Um.

    Every single wealthy person I know of is college educated. The extra wealthy tend to be of republican minded, but still have a degree. Your chances of success in life are severely hindered if you do not pursue higher learning. It is rather simple to play along and ignore "leftist" remarks and ideals in a classroom setting. Get your degree and make your own impression on the planet.

    I mean more power to ya if you wanna make 30K/year for the rest of your life, but that wouldn't sit well with me. At all.
    30k/yr? If I could get my hands on even one quarter of that, I'd be happy.

    Higher Education? You can say it until your face turns blue... Those who choose knowledge and seek it out, do not need to pay for it and be spoon-fed. What of those who can figure out a great many subjects on their own? For ever subject and principle they are supposed to be teaching, there is some wo/man's name in a book that discovered it first. What of the person capable of doing with their own mind, on their own, what they all did combined? I've 'discovered' many mathematical principles at a much earlier age than 'higher education' would have ever delivered it. I may not have the granular precision of software that can perform finite element analysis, but neither does any professor. But the idiot with a cheat-sheet and a hangover from his orgy frat party will be getting the same degree and defined as my equal.

    You have demonstrated the precise lie that I refuse to be part of. I am far more intelligent and capable than all but 2 persons with degrees that I have met in my lifetime. It is a completely meaningless thing that is by no means any form of qualification. But the prejudiced hide behind it as an excuse. I will be starving, homeless, and/or dead; but I will never compromise right and wrong because those who hold the keys would torture me for rejecting their agenda. Making life difficult or impossible on a person becasue they refuse an agenda is evil. There is no better proof of what Liberals really are, than the faux education of college and what is done to people (like me) who simply refuse to be Liberals.

    There is no success in giving in to what you know is wrong. A big pile of money, yes. But it is not success. The evil always reward their pawns and punish those who refuse to be. It is an ugly dochotomy, but a man-made one. I'll not be a man that makes it so.

    Taking political prisoners and starving them in a labor camp is too obvious. Take those two key words and design a society around them... "Be complicit if you want to live." - it doesn't require bars or fences to create a death/labor camp. You can have a republican mindset if you want. Living in denial of what so-called 'higher education' is really used for is at the root of it, whether you subscribe to it or not. If you go along with it, you are supporting it. You rivet the chains around the necks of your fellow sufferers. You are then rewarded if you do it wholesale.... And they call it 'being a responsible adult.'

    It is all rooted in the lie of 'higher education.' Propaganda and hate relabeled as 'education.' A compulsory 'education' that is required or you will be forced into indentured servitude, or worse. How enlightened....

    Gosh, what next? Only people with 4 year degrees will be allowed to apply for permission to carry a weapon? :quirky
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  15. #15
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Thoreau wrote:
    LuvmyXD9 wrote:
    ixtow wrote:
    packinprofessor wrote:
    ixtow wrote:
    packinprofessor wrote:
    ...people presume that liberalism and education are mutually inclusive, when they in fact are not.
    I don't have a degree specifically because extreme leftism and hate of America are the exclusive subjects taught in every college classroom I have ever been in. Actual academics are rare, and openly frowned upon, in favor of constant propaganda for the far left.

    Maybe it's just where I live. But I have no respect for people with degrees that expect it to mean anything other than that they are Socialists. Educated, I've never seen.
    I would have to respectfully disagree. While your generalization is 99% true, it is not true all the time. I just had lunch this afternoon with another colleague who is a gun fanatic and also an academic. Don't lump all of us together.
    It's still a lot of time and money to invest in something that is only 1% or less of what it is advertised to be.

    Sadly, 'higher education' has become nothing more than a convenient way for Leftists to inflict their new breed of nepotism. You have to have their programming, and piece of paper saying you've been programmed, or no job for you! Skill, knowledge, experience, intelligence, etc... All irrelevant.

    "Are you a member of the Far Left Club?" That's all it is. Even for the 1%; I can Google more than that. I think it is an incredible insult to legitimately worthwhile people, and the occasional earnest educator (which you presumably are).
    Um.

    Every single wealthy person I know of is college educated. The extra wealthy tend to be of republican minded, but still have a degree. Your chances of success in life are severely hindered if you do not pursue higher learning. It is rather simple to play along and ignore "leftist" remarks and ideals in a classroom setting. Get your degree and make your own impression on the planet.

    I mean more power to ya if you wanna make 30K/year for the rest of your life, but that wouldn't sit well with me. At all.
    Hate to contribute to the derailing of this thread any further (I do fully support what the OP is working to accomplish here, especially since I've worked for the hell that is UoP before...) but I call BS on your little jab, and herd mentality regarding 'higher education.'

    To say that one MUST have a degree to get anywhere in life is 100% BS. Always has been, always will be. Kids are pressured to get 'good grades' in high school, or they wont get into an awesome ubercollege. Then they're pressured to excel at that (and by that, I don't mean excel at UNDERSTANDING and COMPREHENSION, but just at grades again.)

    I have no degree, and no plans to get one. I got most of my education from the public school system in Harrisburg Pennsylvania (k-10th), spent one year in the PV school district, dropped out, got my GED at 16. I had landed a 30k/yr job just a couple weeks after turning 18 working for another local school district with nothing more than a few technology classes here and there, and a lot of self-taught effort. Last year I grossed over 70k. Again, still no degree.

    I have friends who INSIST that 'education is where its at' and to an extent, I will always agree that knowledge is power. Higher education, unfortunately, does not do anything to instill knowledge, but instead works to burden young and ignorant students with massive loan debt, keep them out of the real workforce (which skews unemployment numbers since students usually don't factor into those numbers) and indoctrinates students.

    My friends can keep on blowing money they don't have on classes they don't understand, just to get that degree. I'll just keep on working my ass off like I have all my life and get places based on how good I am at what I do instead of basing it on which diploma mill I made a substantial donation to.

    In short, PLEASE stop trying to perpetuate the myth that one can't do @#$%in life without a degree. It's insulting to those of us with an IQ over 60. Sorry for the rant, but this subject is one of my biggest pet peeves with modern society.
    I wish your situation were more common, but employers who don't place 'the new nepotism' above legitimate qualifications are very few and far between. Maybe it is the geographic distribution of Leftist enforcers, etc... But I know I'll never make more than $10k/yr, and I'll be lucky to even do that. My inconvenient morals always get in the way.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    packinprofessor wrote:
    Ixtow,

    I couldn't agree with you more. I give students top grades when they argue a point with which I 100% disagree, as long as they argue it well. I can't stand the vast majority of college students who are like zombies and take in everything they hear. I tell my students to be skeptical of me and to check out my sources and facts.
    Back when Concealed Weapons Permits were still public in my state, I had no less than 5 Professors tell me I would be failed for having it.

    You sound like the kind of teacher they all should be. Even in my promotion of pro-gun rights, I tell any listener that they should do their own research, take no one's word at face value, not even my own. No one can discern an agenda from the truth until they abandon trust. From that point, it can be built.

    The so-called "higher education" system has lost mine permanently. And, of course, only I will suffer for it... I'm not bitching. I choose my path. Just pointing out that if they were so damn educated, they would know that hate is rooted in ignorance, not knowledge.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    ixtow wrote:
    Higher Education? You can say it until your face turns blue... Those who choose knowledge and seek it out, do not need to pay for it and be spoon-fed. What of those who can figure out a great many subjects on their own? For ever subject and principle they are supposed to be teaching, there is some wo/man's name in a book that discovered it first. What of the person capable of doing with their own mind, on their own, what they all did combined? I've 'discovered' many mathematical principles at a much earlier age than 'higher education' would have ever delivered it. I may not have the granular precision of software that can perform finite element analysis, but neither does any professor. But the idiot with a cheat-sheet and a hangover from his orgy frat party will be getting the same degree and defined as my equal.
    Don't think I could've used a better chunk of words to say that if I tried. +1

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    ixtow wrote:
    I wish your situation were more common, but employers who don't place 'the new nepotism' above legitimate qualifications are very few and far between. Maybe it is the geographic distribution of Leftist enforcers, etc... But I know I'll never make more than $10k/yr, and I'll be lucky to even do that. My inconvenient morals always get in the way.
    I'd certainly be lying to myself if I pretended that luck didn't play some role in finding an employer who truly values experience and knowledge over a piece of paper. That's why I've worked for Banner Health, APS, SRP, DHL, University of Phoenix, Honeywell, Intel, and numerous other places, but all of them for short durations as a contractor. That;s also why I have now been with my current job/company almost as long as all my previous jobs combined. I *finally* found that one job that was a perfect fit, pays well, and doesn't give a damn if I paid my tax to a college or certification authority.

    As far as morals, I'd say that you're already ahead of the game if you are able to stick to them, regardless of the holdbacks that come with them. =)

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    Thoreau wrote:
    LuvmyXD9 wrote:
    ixtow wrote:
    packinprofessor wrote:
    ixtow wrote:
    packinprofessor wrote:
    ...people presume that liberalism and education are mutually inclusive, when they in fact are not.
    I don't have a degree specifically because extreme leftism and hate of America are the exclusive subjects taught in every college classroom I have ever been in.* Actual academics are rare, and openly frowned upon, in favor of constant propaganda for the far left.

    Maybe it's just where I live.* But I have no respect for people with degrees that expect it to mean anything other than that they are Socialists.* Educated, I've never seen.
    I would have to respectfully disagree. While your generalization is 99% true, it is not true all the time. I just had lunch this afternoon with another colleague who is a gun fanatic and also an academic. Don't lump all of us together.
    It's still a lot of time and money to invest in something that is only 1% or less of what it is advertised to be.

    Sadly, 'higher education' has become nothing more than a convenient way for Leftists to inflict their new breed of nepotism.* You have to have their programming, and piece of paper saying you've been programmed, or no job for you!* Skill, knowledge, experience, intelligence, etc...* All irrelevant.

    "Are you a member of the Far Left Club?"* That's all it is.* Even for the 1%; I can Google more than that.* I think it is an incredible insult to legitimately worthwhile people, and the occasional earnest educator (which you presumably are).
    Um.

    Every single wealthy person I know of is college educated. The extra wealthy tend to be of republican minded, but still have a degree. Your chances of success in life are severely hindered if you do not pursue higher learning. It is rather simple to play along and ignore "leftist" remarks and ideals in a classroom setting. Get your degree and make your own impression on the planet.

    I mean more power to ya if you wanna make 30K/year for the rest of your life, but that wouldn't sit well with me. At all.
    *

    Hate to contribute to the derailing of this thread any further (I do fully support what the OP is working to accomplish here, especially since I've worked for the hell that is UoP before...) but I call BS on your little jab, and herd mentality regarding 'higher education.'

    To say that one MUST have a degree to get anywhere in life is 100% BS.* Always has been, always will be.* Kids are pressured to get 'good grades' in high school, or they wont get into an awesome ubercollege.* Then they're pressured to excel at that (and by that, I don't mean excel at UNDERSTANDING and COMPREHENSION, but just at grades again.)

    I have no degree, and no plans to get one.* I got most of my education from the public school system in Harrisburg Pennsylvania (k-10th), spent one year in the PV school district, dropped out, got my GED at 16.* I had landed a 30k/yr job just a couple weeks after turning 18 working for another local school district with nothing more than a few technology classes here and there, and a lot of self-taught effort.* Last year I grossed over 70k.* Again, still no degree.

    I have friends who INSIST that 'education is where its at' and to an extent, I will always agree that knowledge is power.* Higher education, unfortunately, does not do anything to instill knowledge, but instead works to burden young and ignorant students with massive loan debt, keep them out of the real workforce (which skews unemployment numbers since students usually don't factor into those numbers) and indoctrinates students.*

    My friends can keep on blowing money they don't have on classes they don't understand, just to get that degree.* I'll just keep on working my ass off like I have all my life and get places based on how good I am at what I do instead of basing it on which diploma mill I made a substantial donation to.

    In short, PLEASE stop trying to perpetuate the myth that one can't do @#$%*in life without a degree.* It's insulting to those of us with an IQ over 60.* Sorry for the rant, but this subject is one of my biggest pet peeves with modern society.
    Read my post a LITTLE more carefully. I said severely hindered, not impossible. Is there a diamond in the rough who succeeds without anything? Sure it's possible. Not likely though. Many things are possible to do in life, I'd just prefer not to have to ice skate uphill on lubed skates with 300 pounds on my back.

    Please read posts a little more carefully. Perhaps you should have not dropped out of high school?

    For certain industries no a degree is not REQUIRED. For the salary and industry I personally want to be in you'll have a snowball's chance in hell without a degree.

    But I forget, on this forum anything focusing on materialism or even remotely democratic is the devil. Gun rights aren't politics, it's basic freedom. The second amendment isn't democrat or republican, it just IS. Many of you forget that.

  20. #20
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    LuvmyXD9 wrote:
    Thoreau wrote:
    LuvmyXD9 wrote:
    ixtow wrote:
    packinprofessor wrote:
    ixtow wrote:
    packinprofessor wrote:
    ...people presume that liberalism and education are mutually inclusive, when they in fact are not.
    I don't have a degree specifically because extreme leftism and hate of America are the exclusive subjects taught in every college classroom I have ever been in. Actual academics are rare, and openly frowned upon, in favor of constant propaganda for the far left.

    Maybe it's just where I live. But I have no respect for people with degrees that expect it to mean anything other than that they are Socialists. Educated, I've never seen.
    I would have to respectfully disagree. While your generalization is 99% true, it is not true all the time. I just had lunch this afternoon with another colleague who is a gun fanatic and also an academic. Don't lump all of us together.
    It's still a lot of time and money to invest in something that is only 1% or less of what it is advertised to be.

    Sadly, 'higher education' has become nothing more than a convenient way for Leftists to inflict their new breed of nepotism. You have to have their programming, and piece of paper saying you've been programmed, or no job for you! Skill, knowledge, experience, intelligence, etc... All irrelevant.

    "Are you a member of the Far Left Club?" That's all it is. Even for the 1%; I can Google more than that. I think it is an incredible insult to legitimately worthwhile people, and the occasional earnest educator (which you presumably are).
    Um.

    Every single wealthy person I know of is college educated. The extra wealthy tend to be of republican minded, but still have a degree. Your chances of success in life are severely hindered if you do not pursue higher learning. It is rather simple to play along and ignore "leftist" remarks and ideals in a classroom setting. Get your degree and make your own impression on the planet.

    I mean more power to ya if you wanna make 30K/year for the rest of your life, but that wouldn't sit well with me. At all.


    Hate to contribute to the derailing of this thread any further (I do fully support what the OP is working to accomplish here, especially since I've worked for the hell that is UoP before...) but I call BS on your little jab, and herd mentality regarding 'higher education.'

    To say that one MUST have a degree to get anywhere in life is 100% BS. Always has been, always will be. Kids are pressured to get 'good grades' in high school, or they wont get into an awesome ubercollege. Then they're pressured to excel at that (and by that, I don't mean excel at UNDERSTANDING and COMPREHENSION, but just at grades again.)

    I have no degree, and no plans to get one. I got most of my education from the public school system in Harrisburg Pennsylvania (k-10th), spent one year in the PV school district, dropped out, got my GED at 16. I had landed a 30k/yr job just a couple weeks after turning 18 working for another local school district with nothing more than a few technology classes here and there, and a lot of self-taught effort. Last year I grossed over 70k. Again, still no degree.

    I have friends who INSIST that 'education is where its at' and to an extent, I will always agree that knowledge is power. Higher education, unfortunately, does not do anything to instill knowledge, but instead works to burden young and ignorant students with massive loan debt, keep them out of the real workforce (which skews unemployment numbers since students usually don't factor into those numbers) and indoctrinates students.

    My friends can keep on blowing money they don't have on classes they don't understand, just to get that degree. I'll just keep on working my ass off like I have all my life and get places based on how good I am at what I do instead of basing it on which diploma mill I made a substantial donation to.

    In short, PLEASE stop trying to perpetuate the myth that one can't do @#$%in life without a degree. It's insulting to those of us with an IQ over 60. Sorry for the rant, but this subject is one of my biggest pet peeves with modern society.
    Read my post a LITTLE more carefully. I said severely hindered, not impossible. Is there a diamond in the rough who succeeds without anything? Sure it's possible. Not likely though. Many things are possible to do in life, I'd just prefer not to have to ice skate uphill on lubed skates with 300 pounds on my back.

    Please read posts a little more carefully. Perhaps you should have not dropped out of high school?

    For certain industries no a degree is not REQUIRED. For the salary and industry I personally want to be in you'll have a snowball's chance in hell without a degree.

    But I forget, on this forum anything focusing on materialism or even remotely democratic is the devil. Gun rights aren't politics, it's basic freedom. The second amendment isn't democrat or republican, it just IS. Many of you forget that.
    So you want to do things the easy way. Congratulations on your epic success... gained with the least possible amount of effort =)

    What ever happened to hard work being the key to success?

    In any case, as I'm certain you know, I read your post quite well. I simply disagreed with your point of view and provided an example of an exception (and I never said it wasn't the exception. Of course, in this day and age, any sign of intelligence, determination, or non-hive thought is an exception.)

    Not sure how you arrived at the 2nd amendment being involved in this particular offshoot, but okaly dokaly....

    I was reading another forum-member's blog regarding this very subject earlier today. Hopefully that person will respond an a manner eloquent enough for you since my method indicates that I shouldn't have dropped out. (Thank's for responding to civil discussion with attacks though. PS: The 'IQ over 60 thing, if I wasn't clear, was NOT directed at you specifically, or anyone else in this thread for that matter. If it came across that way, I do apologize.)

  21. #21
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    The 2nd Amendment is very much involved in this. Faux Education is what is being used to disguise Political Agenda. If you dare to disagree with that agenda; no job for you! In a supposedly Capitalist Society, being banned from income is no different from being incarcerated or enslaved.

    As it is, this means that if you resist Socialist Propaganda, you will not be allowed to have an income. Not having an income means you are starving, homeless, or dead.

    If you dare to suggest that possessing a Weapon is an essential human right; you will have none.

    Unless you give in and let it slide. But living in the result of that is all the description and explanation needed....

    Openly Carrying this Jew Badge of one's own accord, and allowing the hateful to make themselves known, is what? This is DEFINITELY about the 2nd Amendment and OC; for any who let it be publicly known that they are a Tool Using Human, will be struck down in the fiercest manner available by the Liberal Powers That Be.

    Being a Tool Using Human suggests an intent to use tools. Using tools = working and earning. Liberals HATE that, and use their Faux Education system to enforce it.

    It also suggests an intent to preserve life. This suggests that lives are equal when juxtaposed with the 'only ones' mentality of the same Liberals. They hate that too. Oddly, Conservatives hate it just as much.... One thinks that stealing from the rich and 'redistributing' it is noble.... The other thinks that stealing and keeping it all for yourself is noble... The root failure is that stealing is never noble no matter what you do with it. Just fukc off and quit stealing!
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  22. #22
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    Dear All,


    Here is my exchange with the state senator. Thoughts?




    Douglas,


    I have that draft bill coming. It will be narrowly written just for faculty with a CCW. There will be those that want to hijack it and expand it. I am only going to let go through, what the Governor will sign. The AZCDL will want to play chicken with Brewer and make a big ideological statement, all while sabotaging the bill to beat their chest. I hope that doesn't happen.




    Senator XXXX


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Senator XXXX,

    Thank you for being an unyielding supporter of gun rights at the Capitol.

    Thank you so much for your willingness to at least see if such a bill could get to committee for a hearing. I would gladly take time off to come and testify at a committee hearing.

    We achieved success with the law allowing for concealed carry in establishments that serve liquor. Imagine that, the mass shootings and apocalyptic events that opponents talked about in reference to that bill have not come to fruition. Imagine that! Sorry...I know I'm preaching to the choir.

    I completely agree with you that a bill restricted to faculty/staff at universities may be more palatable for gun opponents, but would hopefully pave the way for more expansive freedoms down the line.

    I will keep my eyes peeled when the next session begins for something on this. Thank you again for being a supporter of the second amendment and for supporting law abiding citizens who want to exercise their rights.

    Most Respectfully,

    Doug XXXXX

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >
    > Douglas,
    >
    > I believe that would be an easy bill to pass, for a college faculty member with a CCW to carry on campus. If it is that limited when introduced, it would not garner the stigma that comes with allowing firearms on a K-12 campus.
    >
    > I will have the Judiciary Committee analyst draft a bill.
    >
    > Senator XXXXX
    >
    >
    > ________________________________

    >
    >
    > Dear Honorable Senator XXX,
    > Dear Honorable Senator XXX,
    >
    > I am a constituent in district XX. I have sent the below email to my district senator and representatives for review and, hopefully, legislative action. I am sending it to you, as you two are pro-2nd amendment and, in my eyes, the most likely to take this battle head on. Thank you for your time and consideration.
    >
    >
    > "Dear Honorable Senator XXXX,
    > Dear Honorable Representative XXXX,
    > Dear Honorable Representative XXX,
    >
    >
    > As a voting constituent in District XX, I would like to respectfully implore each of you to please introduce and support legislation (without unnecessary delay) making it legal for CCW permit holders to exercise their second amendment right on Arizona university campuses. I am a faculty/staff member at ASU Tempe Campus, and feel very strongly about this issue. I often feel like a defenseless target. Making tough and unpopular decisions quite regularly, I am constantly reminded of how vulnerable I, and all of my colleagues and students are. My desire is not to make a political statement while at work teaching, but to be able to protect myself and others if lethal force is needed.
    >
    >
    > It is my understanding that previous bills to this effect passed some committee hurdles in 2008, but I am hoping that you are willing to support legislation allowing CCW permit holders to carry a concealed firearm on campuses of higher education. I am referring to concealed carry, as I believe it would lead to the least amount of nervousness by folks at the university (when compared to open carry), while allowing law-abiding citizens who are CCW permit-holders to be armed.
    >
    >
    > I strongly urge you to please support this issue. I voted for each of you during the last election, and hope that my concerns don't fall through the cracks. I thank you for your time, consideration, and dedication to the voting constituents in District XX. A return email or phone call to XXX XXX-XXXXwould be immensely appreciated.
    >
    >
    > Respectfully,
    >
    >
    > Douglas XXXXXX


    > Voting DistrictXXX Constituent?"




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  23. #23
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    That's definitely a step in the right direction =)

    Of course, if the senator thinks that anything more than that wouldn't pass (or that Brewer wouldn't sign it, I think it's time to vote for some folks who WOULD support it in a more aggressive form.

    Then again, Rome wasn't built in a day...

  24. #24
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    Agreed that small steps are moves in the right directions. If we can't get K-post HS on board, maybe a compromise bill is the most pragmatic thing at this point. Perfect, at leas

  25. #25
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    There is a difference between pragmatism and insulting people as chest beaters for not voluntarily wiping their ass with their rights...

    There is something to be said for taking back rights as gradually as they were lost, but insulting people who know where the finish line really is certainly doesn't describe an unyielding supporter...
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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