My talk with a DNR Officer

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Here's some insight. I have a number of friends in Law Enforcement I have known for well over 30 years. Most I have known since Jr High school.

Here's the skinny. When there are news and law releases from the Michigan State Police, they are supposed to READ them to the officers on every roll call for 14 days. Here's the problem, most of the Brass (supervisors) don't do this and shuffle the paperwork on a desk and it may take months before they are read, if ever read to the officers. This isn't a patrol officer issue this is the political arm of the Police or Sheriff Dept withholding information and when confronted deliberately give the old deer in the headlights look. This is being done on purpose and the only way it will stop is every time we are violated by a non informed office, we sue the Police agency he works for. Again this is what police officers have told me. Oh by the way all 4 of the ones I asked this about this week are pro open carry, and have been since high school.

If it happens to me I will sue for my Civil and Constitutional rights violations and maybe of they are tied up in court for the stupidity, we may find out it's time to replace the Police Chiefs and Sheriffs who are causing this violation of our rights.

Frankly this is an education issue and as busy as most cops are they don't have the time chasing laws themselves when there are people PAID to provide them the information in a timely manner. We pay for this with our tax dollars.

Than you for listening...

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T Vance wrote:

The DNR does not always know what they are talking about. I told Wally after he had this talk with the DNR, from now on ask them to cite the law.

A few years ago I called the DNR (I forget what city - somewhere in the Metro Detroit area) down here and asked them if I could target shoot in the shotgun zone of Michigan with a rifle such as an AK-47 on state land as long as it was not deer hunting season. The woman told me "abosolutly no". The way I read it online on the DNR website it looked like I could. I called to verbally clarify this.

I was not satisfied with her answer and called a DNR office in Gaylord. I asked the exact same question. He told me I COULD target practice on state land with a rifle in the shotgun zone.

So call this guy back and tell him to cite the law. If that fails, call the Gaylord DNR. But as PDinDetroit said, he can't find a law.What the DNR officer told you sounds like BSor he has no idea what he is talking about. This is why ALL officers need to have continued education in order to keep their jobs!

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I have hand gun hunted for 30 years and I carried same weapon as CCW carry. Never have I had any DNR say anything about my practice and I have run into many, while exiting and entering a vehicle.

I have had a couple ask me question about my custom Magnaported 4 inch S&W model 29, kinda like a kid in a candy store.
Frankly I can't ever remember a confrontation, since that one when I was 18, that I won in court.

I think I may call the DNR and ask while I record the conversation....

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At least 3 different laws apply here. How they are interpreted and applied would be up to the LEO, prosecutor and court.

First, 324.40111 covers uncased firearms and would be more appropriate if you are in the act of taking game or in area frequented by wild animals. 750.227 would be more appropriate for example if you're driving on I75 or traveling through an urban area. Both include the CPL exception.

However, under 324.43510 the CPL exception does not apply if there is attempt to take an animal. This exeption is open to a lengthy discussion but I will give you an example of one perspective.

You have a shotgun you have registered as pistol, now you are driving down a two track during firearm deer season, firearm loaded with slugs/buckshot, firearm laying across your lap and you are obvious road hunting, ie) attempting to take game. You can claim all you want that your CPL covers you, but a Conservation Officer will argue that the CPL exception under 324.43510 does not apply since you are attempting to take game so now you are in violation of 324.40111, CPL or not.

Definition of "take" 324.43508: means fishing, hunting, trapping, catching, capturing, killing, or the attempt to engage in such an activity.


324.40111 Taking animal from in or upon vehicle; transporting or possessing firearm in or upon vehicle; transporting bow in or upon vehicle; written permission to hunt or discharge firearm.
Sec. 40111.
(1) Except as otherwise provided in this part or in a department order authorized under section 40107, a person shall not take an animal from in or upon a vehicle.
(2) Except as otherwise provided in this part or in a department order authorized under section 40107, a person shall not transport or have in possession a firearm in or upon a vehicle, unless the firearm is unloaded in both barrel and magazine and enclosed in a case, carried in the trunk of a vehicle, or unloaded in a motorized boat.
(3) Except as otherwise provided in this part, a person shall not transport or have in possession a bow in or upon a vehicle, unless the bow is unstrung, enclosed in a case, or carried in the trunk of a vehicle.
(4) A person shall not hunt or discharge a firearm within 150 yards of an occupied building, dwelling, house, residence, or cabin, or any barn or other building used in connection with a farm operation, without obtaining the written permission of the owner, renter, or occupant of the property.
750.227d Transporting or possessing firearm in or upon motor vehicle or self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel; conditions; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
Sec. 227d.
(1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a motor vehicle or any self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel a firearm, other than a pistol, unless the firearm is unloaded and is 1 or more of the following:
(a) Taken down.
(b) Enclosed in a case.
(c) Carried in the trunk of the vehicle.
(d) Inaccessible from the interior of the vehicle.
(2) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.


324.43510 Carrying or transporting firearm, slingshot, bow and arrow, crossbow or trap; license required; exception; applicability to taking of wild animal.Sec. 43510.
(1) Subject to subsection (2) and except as provided in section 43513, a person shall not carry or transport a firearm, slingshot, bow and arrow, crossbow, or a trap while in any area frequented by wild animals unless that person has in his or her possession a license as required under this part.
(2) This act or a rule promulgated or order issued by the department or the commission under this act shall not be construed to prohibit a person from transporting a pistol or carrying a loaded pistol, whether concealed or not, if either of the following applies:
(a) The person has in his or her possession a license to carry a concealed pistol under 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.421 to 28.435.
(b) The person is authorized under the circumstances to carry a concealed pistol without obtaining a license to carry a concealed pistol under 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.421 to 28.435, as provided for under any of the following:
(i) Section 12a of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.432a.
(ii) Section 227, 227a, 231, or 231a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.227, 750.227a, 750.231, and 750.231a.
(3) Subsection (2) does not authorize an individual to take or attempt to take a wild animal except as provided by law.

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warrior1978 wrote:

324.40111 Taking animal from in or upon vehicle; transporting or possessing firearm in or upon vehicle; transporting bow in or upon vehicle; written permission to hunt or discharge firearm.
Sec. 40111.
(1) Except as otherwise provided in this part or in a department order authorized under section 40107, a person shall not take an animal from in or upon a vehicle.
(2) Except as otherwise provided in this part or in a department order authorized under section 40107, a person shall not transport or have in possession a firearm in or upon a vehicle, unless the firearm is unloaded in both barrel and magazine and enclosed in a case, carried in the trunk of a vehicle, or unloaded in a motorized boat.
(3) Except as otherwise provided in this part, a person shall not transport or have in possession a bow in or upon a vehicle, unless the bow is unstrung, enclosed in a case, or carried in the trunk of a vehicle.
(4) A person shall not hunt or discharge a firearm within 150 yards of an occupied building, dwelling, house, residence, or cabin, or any barn or other building used in connection with a farm operation, without obtaining the written permission of the owner, renter, or occupant of the property.
750.227d Transporting or possessing firearm in or upon motor vehicle or self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel; conditions; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
Sec. 227d.
(1) Except as otherwise permitted by law (so ifyour shotgun is registered as a pistol and you have a CPL you are not breaking ANY law here because a CPL allows the licensee to carry ANYWHERE in the state except for the exception of the places listed on the back of the CPL), a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a motor vehicle or any self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel a firearm, other than a pistol, unless the firearm is unloaded and is 1 or more of the following:
(a) Taken down.
(b) Enclosed in a case.
(c) Carried in the trunk of the vehicle.
(d) Inaccessible from the interior of the vehicle.
(2) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.


324.43510 Carrying or transporting firearm, slingshot, bow and arrow, crossbow or trap; license required; exception; applicability to taking of wild animal.Sec. 43510.
(1) Subject to subsection (2) and except as provided in section 43513, a person shall not carry or transport a firearm, slingshot, bow and arrow, crossbow, or a trap while in any area frequented by wild animals unless that person has in his or her possession a license as required under this part.
(2) This act or a rule promulgated or order issued by the department or the commission under this act shall not be construed to prohibit a person from transporting a pistol or carrying a loaded pistol, whether concealed or not, if either of the following applies:
(a) The person has in his or her possession a license to carry a concealed pistol under 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.421 to 28.435.
(b) The person is authorized under the circumstances to carry a concealed pistol without obtaining a license to carry a concealed pistol under 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.421 to 28.435, as provided for under any of the following:
(i) Section 12a of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.432a.
(ii) Section 227, 227a, 231, or 231a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.227, 750.227a, 750.231, and 750.231a.
(3) Subsection (2) does not authorize an individual to take or attempt to take a wild animal except as provided by law.

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warrior1978 wrote:

snip

You have a shotgun you have registered as pistol, now you are driving down a two track during firearm deer season, firearm loaded with slugs/buckshot, firearm laying across your lap and you are obvious road hunting, ie) attempting to take game. You can claim all you want that your CPL covers you, but a Conservation Officer will argue that the CPL exception under 324.43510 does not apply since you are attempting to take game so now you are in violation of 324.40111, CPL or not.

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What's the difference between the shotgun loaded with buckshot or slugs and a Ruger .44 magnum? Both are effective for defense. In fact, buckshot is pretty much unparalleled as far as defensive effectiveness. Unless you are actually pointing the firearm out the window, or leaning against your fender sighting down on an animal, they still have to prove your intent. If there is no game present to take, where is the attempt? I could use my 1911 to take deer. It holds less than 9 rounds, and has an accurate effective range of 25-30 yards, as long as I'm not shaking like a leaf. What if I'm driving down that two track with that in my lap? I have my pistol in my lap when I drive, because having to draw from a holster while seated is a nightmare. Innocent until proven guilty.

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Taurus850CIA wrote:

warrior1978 wrote:

snip

You have a shotgun you have registered as pistol, now you are driving down a two track during firearm deer season, firearm loaded with slugs/buckshot, firearm laying across your lap and you are obvious road hunting, ie) attempting to take game. You can claim all you want that your CPL covers you, but a Conservation Officer will argue that the CPL exception under 324.43510 does not apply since you are attempting to take game so now you are in violation of 324.40111, CPL or not.

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What's the difference between the shotgun loaded with buckshot or slugs and a Ruger .44 magnum? Both are effective for defense. In fact, buckshot is pretty much unparalleled as far as defensive effectiveness. Unless you are actually pointing the firearm out the window, or leaning against your fender sighting down on an animal, they still have to prove your intent. If there is no game present to take, where is the attempt? I could use my 1911 to take deer. It holds less than 9 rounds, and has an accurate effective range of 25-30 yards, as long as I'm not shaking like a leaf. What if I'm driving down that two track with that in my lap? I have my pistol in my lap when I drive, because having to draw from a holster while seated is a nightmare. Innocent until proven guilty.

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Okay now you are just giving away my hunting technique. A 6" barreled.357 mag revolver in my lap while driving and scouting my next deer hunting spot. That 30 point buck standing on the side of the road, just asking for it. He charges the car I shoot in self-defense..........It was him or me officer.....him or me.....

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Venator wrote:

Taurus850CIA wrote:

warrior1978 wrote:

snip

You have a shotgun you have registered as pistol, now you are driving down a two track during firearm deer season, firearm loaded with slugs/buckshot, firearm laying across your lap and you are obvious road hunting, ie) attempting to take game. You can claim all you want that your CPL covers you, but a Conservation Officer will argue that the CPL exception under 324.43510 does not apply since you are attempting to take game so now you are in violation of 324.40111, CPL or not.

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What's the difference between the shotgun loaded with buckshot or slugs and a Ruger .44 magnum? Both are effective for defense. In fact, buckshot is pretty much unparalleled as far as defensive effectiveness. Unless you are actually pointing the firearm out the window, or leaning against your fender sighting down on an animal, they still have to prove your intent. If there is no game present to take, where is the attempt? I could use my 1911 to take deer. It holds less than 9 rounds, and has an accurate effective range of 25-30 yards, as long as I'm not shaking like a leaf. What if I'm driving down that two track with that in my lap? I have my pistol in my lap when I drive, because having to draw from a holster while seated is a nightmare. Innocent until proven guilty.

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Okay now you are just giving away my hunting technique. A 6" barreled.357 mag revolver in my lap while driving and scouting my next deer hunting spot. That 30 point buck standing on the side of the road, just asking for it. He charges the car I shoot in self-defense..........It was him or me officer.....him or me.....

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:lol:

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Mine too except it's a Ruger Redhawk 44 mag w/ 7 1/2" barrel....good out to 100 yrds/.....:celebrate

Not to mention I hunt with a inline muzzle loader which is considered "unloaded" if the primer is removed.......hehehehe

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One of these days, My goal is to be a owner of a S&W 500 for Deer hunting. I just take my Kimber out for right now, But I get the .50 Cal then that will be my Deer Slayer.

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wally1120 wrote:

One of these days, My goal is to be a owner of a S&W 500 for Deer hunting. I just take my Kimber out for right now, But I get the .50 Cal then that will be my Deer Slayer.

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Oh, sooo....you want one of them thar pistols that incapacitates and field dresses the deer with just a single pull of the trigger eh?

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YEP, makes my job easier.:lol:

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Venator wrote:

Taurus850CIA wrote:

warrior1978 wrote:

snip

You have a shotgun you have registered as pistol, now you are driving down a two track during firearm deer season, firearm loaded with slugs/buckshot, firearm laying across your lap and you are obvious road hunting, ie) attempting to take game. You can claim all you want that your CPL covers you, but a Conservation Officer will argue that the CPL exception under 324.43510 does not apply since you are attempting to take game so now you are in violation of 324.40111, CPL or not.

Click to expand...

What's the difference between the shotgun loaded with buckshot or slugs and a Ruger .44 magnum? Both are effective for defense. In fact, buckshot is pretty much unparalleled as far as defensive effectiveness. Unless you are actually pointing the firearm out the window, or leaning against your fender sighting down on an animal, they still have to prove your intent. If there is no game present to take, where is the attempt? I could use my 1911 to take deer. It holds less than 9 rounds, and has an accurate effective range of 25-30 yards, as long as I'm not shaking like a leaf. What if I'm driving down that two track with that in my lap? I have my pistol in my lap when I drive, because having to draw from a holster while seated is a nightmare. Innocent until proven guilty.

Click to expand...

Okay now you are just giving away my hunting technique. A 6" barreled.357 mag revolver in my lap while driving and scouting my next deer hunting spot. That 30 point buck standing on the side of the road, just asking for it. He charges the car I shoot in self-defense..........It was him or me officer.....him or me.....

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ROFLMAO!

I had a six-point walking down the right shoulder of the road towards me at just after 6 am recently. Too bad I am an honest bloke or else I could have pulled out the GP100 and took him!

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wally1120 wrote:

YEP, makes my job easier.:lol:

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Yeah, but a whole lot messier! I will "kennedy" a doe next firearm deer season as it makes the field dressing much cleaner/easier (makes for an ugly doe though).

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You could always get a Beowolf 50 upper & turn a trusty AR into a trusty Elephant gun.....hahahahahaha

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I think if I was to be hunting with a 500, Then I would take a head shot, That would be a great shot, Behaeding the Deer. That would drop him quicker then shi^, Having no head left. And wouldn`t eat away at any of the meat either.

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I think if I was to be hunting with a 500, Then I would take a head shot, That would be a great shot, Behaeding the Deer. That would drop him quicker then shi^, Having no head left. And wouldn`t eat away at any of the meat either.

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[size="-1"][font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"][font="Arial, Helvetica"] [font="Arial, Helvetica"]4. Does my valid Concealed Pistol License allow me to carry a concealed pistol in a state park?[/font]

Yes. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]MCL 324.504[/font] states that the DNR cannot promulgate or enforce a rule that prohibits a ccw holder from carrying on property under the control of the DNR.

http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1586_27094-10953--,00.html

[/font][/font][/size]

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Venator wrote:

Taurus850CIA wrote:

warrior1978 wrote:

snip

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snip...............

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Okay now you are just giving away my hunting technique. A 6" barreled.357 mag revolver in my lap while driving and scouting my next deer hunting spot. That 30 point buck standing on the side of the road, just asking for it. He charges the car I shoot in self-defense..........It was him or me officer.....him or me.....

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OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:what: Haven't you been told that a .357 is too SMALL to kill a deer with?????? No ethical hunter will consider useing anything less powerful them a .50 cal. :bangheadAnd a pistol is only good at 20 yds or less)

Quit waisting your time here & read some hunting forums.:celebrate:shock::lol::lol::lol:

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Not true, a .357 has enough take down power for a deer. I also disagree with a handgun only bing good for 20 yards, I have a 4" 1911 that I can get out 50 yards. True my groupings are as good, But I can pump eight rounds into a Deer at 50 yards. I just think it would be cool to go hunting with a 10.5" S&W 500, Just knowing that you will drop that Deer VERY QUICKLY.

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wally1120 wrote:

Not true, a .357 has enough take down power for a deer. I also disagree with a handgun only bing good for 20 yards, I have a 4" 1911 that I can get out 50 yards. True my groupings are as good, But I can pump eight rounds into a Deer at 50 yards. I just think it would be cool to go hunting with a 10.5" S&W 500, Just knowing that you will drop that Deer VERY QUICKLY.

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He was being facetious, man.