Bus Shooting Verdict

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Time...was this in the heat of the moment or a pre planned event

Temper...How did this start..a joke gone bad, a personal insult, a direct verbal attack etc.

Intent....once again pre planned, or escalated to instigate more response

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The question I have is, what would anyone on here do if they were on the bus with their chilren, and significant other, and a man walked to the front of the bus, and began leaning into your kids, and sticking his but in your face, and kicking your spouse?

I am sure if the shoe was on the other foot, you would have been a respectful, pleasant human being, and not have done anything, including stopping your spouse from giving the attacker (salters) the finger.

The situation that unfolded might have made a lot more sense if you were the one being engaged by what appeared to be a man out of control, and harrassing a family.

WhatI would like to see is the full details of what occurred, and not a newspaper clipping that is written in Seattle, and bias towards firearms in the first place. it is interesting that Salters engage what was obviously a lesbian couple with their children, since, from what I understand, the women were sitting together on the bus.

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Interesting comment. Curious as to which post you are responding toand who the "you" or "your" you might be referring to. General or specific.

ie - "...your kids..."" ...you would have been..."

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jamesjackson wrote:

The question I have is, what would anyone on here do if they were on the bus with their children, and significant other, and a man walked to the front of the bus, and began leaning into your kids, and sticking his but in your face, and kicking your spouse?

I am sure if the shoe was on the other foot, you would have been a respectful, pleasant human being, and not have done anything, including stopping your spouse from giving the attacker (salters) the finger.

The situation that unfolded might have made a lot more sense if you were the one being engaged by what appeared to be a man out of control, and harassing a family.

WhatI would like to see is the full details of what occurred, and not a newspaper clipping that is written in Seattle, and bias towards firearms in the first place. it is interesting that Salters engage what was obviously a lesbian couple with their children, since, from what I understand, the women were sitting together on the bus.

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Well, given the last scenario as stated, the proper way to handle it would have been to ask the bus driver to stop the bus and contact the police to have the man removed or arrested for assault.

But then, your being very vague about what you mean by "kicking". Is the man in your scenario simply perceived to be rude by bumping anothers legs or feet with his own, or was he laying into the other woman with a full on kick to the chest?

Both situations do not dictate the same response.

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For clarification and maybe correct a misunderstanding of law that I have. But isn't there a "Fighting Words" justification for striking someone. An example being if someone called a man of color a nigger? Isn't the man of color justified for striking them? Although I am pretty sure the reverse is not true. I have no defense if I strike someone simply for calling me a peckerwood, cracker, honky or whatever the current racial slur for European descendants is. Am I correct that "some" words justify a physical attack even though they are unlikely to physically endanger the person being demeaned? Or is that misinformation. Anyone know can you cite examples?

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LongRider wrote:

For clarification and maybe correct a misunderstanding of law that I have. But isn't there a "Fighting Words" justification for striking someone. An example being if someone called a man of color a nigger? Isn't the man of color justified for striking them? Although I am pretty sure the reverse is not true. I have no defense if I strike someone simply for calling me a peckerwood, cracker, honky or whatever the current racial slur for European descendants is. Am I correct that "some" words justify a physical attack even though they are unlikely to physically endanger the person being demeaned? Or is that misinformation. Anyone know can you cite examples?

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As far as I understand it, physical violence is almost never anauthorized response to verbal abuse\assault except under the very narrow condition that the persons words and manner could be reasonably construed as a prelude or indicatorto a physical attack.

In example, someone running toward you with their fist waving and yelling "I'm going to kill you!".

IANAL, but this is as I understand it,Washington State law.

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FMCDH wrote:

LongRider wrote:

For clarification and maybe correct a misunderstanding of law that I have. But isn't there a "Fighting Words" justification for striking someone. An example being if someone called a man of color a nigger? Isn't the man of color justified for striking them? Although I am pretty sure the reverse is not true. I have no defense if I strike someone simply for calling me a peckerwood, cracker, honky or whatever the current racial slur for European descendants is. Am I correct that "some" words justify a physical attack even though they are unlikely to physically endanger the person being demeaned? Or is that misinformation. Anyone know can you cite examples?

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As far as I understand it, physical violence is almost never an authorized response to verbal abuseassault except under the very narrow condition that the persons words and manner could be reasonably construed as a prelude or indicator to a physical attack.

In example, someone running toward you with their fist waving and yelling "I'm going to kill you!".

IANAL, but this is as I understand it, Washington State law.

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You would be correct.

The anticipatory to a crime requires a person to take a great step towards the commission of the crime. So someone yelling threats at you and shaking their fists while running towards you would be attempted assault.

9A.16.020 states;

The use, attempt, or offer to use force upon or toward the person of another is not unlawful in the following cases:

(3) Whenever used by a party about to be injured, or by another lawfully aiding him or her, in preventing or attempting to prevent an offense against his or her person, or a malicious trespass, or other malicious interference with real or personal property lawfully in his or her possession, in case the force is not more than is necessary;

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You would be correct.

The anticipatory to a crime requires a person to take a great step towards the commission of the crime. So someone yelling threats at you and shaking their fists while running towards you would be attempted assault.

9A.16.020 states;

The use, attempt, or offer to use force upon or toward the person of another is not unlawful in the following cases:

(3) Whenever used by a party about to be injured, or by another lawfully aiding him or her, in preventing or attempting to prevent an offense against his or her person, or a malicious trespass, or other malicious interference with real or personal property lawfully in his or her possession, in case the force is not more than is necessary;

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That makes more sense. So a person doesn't even have to touchthe intended victimin order forthe intended victimto use the least amount of force necissary to stop the attacker from following through with their attack on the intended victim. What I would like to know, and find, is the video footage that was on the bus. And I would also like to know if it was Ms. Brereton who gave the man the finger, or her significant other.

One thing that drives me crazy about articles in the paper is that they don't necissarily give you an accurate glimse into what happen. Take for instance the article using the term "gestures," what exactly does that mean? Does gestures mean the middle finger, was she attempting to coax Salters off the bus by throwing her hands into the air? Why did Salters lie when quetioned about what happen? What did the bus driver see going on while all parties were on the bus? Could Ms. Brereton alert the driver (from my understanding Ms. Brereton was sitting at the front of the bus with her children, which means she was probably close to the driver). Why did the bus driver stop the bus a second time, and let Salters off the bus is there a metro policy regarding stopping befo0re the next bus stop? While I think it is nice to debate what might have went on in this situation, there are a number of questions,e ven outside the questions I have raised that would lend to a clearer picture of what was going on in this incident.