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OC, Self Defense and Ammunition

Hawkflyer

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Prince William County, Virginia, USA
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marshaul wrote:
Hawkflyer wrote:
...no rational reason...
I've heard of people who won't trust their lives on a round they didn't load themselves, by hand, with the utmost of caution.

Well like everything else in this business, it is all personal choice. I have carried reloads, but not very often, and I do not make it a regular practice.

Nice to see your still around.

Regards
 

SiRed91

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Jun 23, 2008
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SLC, Utah, USA
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I just use hydra shok in my 45

185gr

29nxauq.jpg
 

tedwitt

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Aug 2, 2008
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Magnolia, Texas, USA
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I used Hydrashock for years, now Hornaday has a new load called DAP. It's coated with teflon so there is no gunky buildup on them or the weapon if left chambered for a long time. These were created by the Law Enforement.
 

ixtow

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Suwannee County, FL
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marshaul wrote:
Hawkflyer wrote:
...no rational reason...
I've heard of people who won't trust their lives on a round they didn't load themselves, by hand, with the utmost of caution.
More interestingly... This site is dedicated to people who make themselves into test cases because someone has to set a precedent...
 

Hawkflyer

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ixtow wrote:
marshaul wrote:
Hawkflyer wrote:
...no rational reason...
I've heard of people who won't trust their lives on a round they didn't load themselves, by hand, with the utmost of caution.
More interestingly...  This site is dedicated to people who make themselves into test cases because someone has to set a precedent...

In a society of laws, this is a necessity. That does not make it rational.
 

ixtow

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Suwannee County, FL
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Hawkflyer wrote:
ixtow wrote:
marshaul wrote:
Hawkflyer wrote:
...no rational reason...
I've heard of people who won't trust their lives on a round they didn't load themselves, by hand, with the utmost of caution.
More interestingly... This site is dedicated to people who make themselves into test cases because someone has to set a precedent...
In a society of laws, this is a necessity. That does not make it rational.
In comparison to doing nothing, I suggest that doing nothing it less rational.
 

okboomer

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Oct 18, 2009
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Oklahoma, USA
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IMHO, I think the controversy over handloads comes back to"you can't possibly do it right as you are a civilian" <heavy sarcasm>... in other words, handloaders are stepping ontoes on the other side of the line betweenState and civilian. Of course, maybe countering with, "It's not rocket science," could get the point across. It is no more intense than being a mechanic, or cooking 2-3 meals per day, every day, for the past 29 years for my family and not once sending anyone to the hospital with food poisioning :cool:, or any of a hundred other professions that if they get it wrong, someone could die.

One way that might work on getting loading info accepted in court would be to mail the card to yourself and never open the envelope unless you are actually sitting on the stand in court. Again, that might work. But, if the judge doesn't want it in, it ain't getting in. No way, no how.

I buy certain calibers from a certified reloader and when I was talking to him about what "certified" meant, he told me that the military and most federal agencies would accept his testimony as expert and his ammo as "to spec," but that a state criminal court would not. That meant that he would not testify if something happened with me shooting a round of his ammo and ending up in court in my state.
 

SlackwareRobert

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Jun 10, 2008
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Alabama, ,
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Bought bullets, bought brass, bought powder, bought primer.
So where is this not factory ammo? Now if you make your own
bullets that leave a BG with a body that looks like he went through
a wood chipper..... (please send me the specs), or you put little
banned substances, either by accident, or on purpose in them
there might be an argument if you get the old Duke case atty.

At best it is factory refurbished ammo.:lol:
I can't wait till I can jacket my own ammo.
Might even put some CO[sup]2[/sup] in the hollow points to really make them dangerous to humans.:what:
 

ixtow

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Nov 25, 2006
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Suwannee County, FL
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SlackwareRobert wrote:
Bought bullets, bought brass, bought powder, bought primer.
So where is this not factory ammo? Now if you make your own
bullets that leave a BG with a body that looks like he went through
a wood chipper..... (please send me the specs), or you put little
banned substances, either by accident, or on purpose in them
there might be an argument if you get the old Duke case atty.

At best it is factory refurbished ammo.:lol:
I can't wait till I can jacket my own ammo.
Might even put some CO[sup]2[/sup] in the hollow points to really make them dangerous to humans.:what:
I wonder, what if you packed the hollow points with something poisonous? Cocaine? Cyanide?

Why should it be a single-type delivery system?

:p

Technically, the 'factory refurbished' claim is legit. It is ATF Illegal to load ammo and sell it without a License. BUT, if the "customer" brings you his/her own Brass, and you reload that, it isn't ATF Illegal. It is considered to be the same ammo, and cannot be taxed twice.

They tend to lean on people who do that, but just like OC, it is a matter of whether you give in or not. I've been operating under that premise for 15 years. They stopped bugging me since I won't give in to their threats.
 

Hawkflyer

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Prince William County, Virginia, USA
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ixtow wrote:
[... SNIP
Technically, the 'factory refurbished' claim is legit.  It is ATF Illegal to load ammo and sell it without a License.  SNIP...

While I can imagine this is true in commercial quantities, I do not believe it is true for a few boxes here and there to friends. I would have to see the code citation on that one.

Regards
 

ixtow

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Nov 25, 2006
Messages
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Location
Suwannee County, FL
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Hawkflyer wrote:
ixtow wrote:
[... SNIP
Technically, the 'factory refurbished' claim is legit. It is ATF Illegal to load ammo and sell it without a License. SNIP...
While I can imagine this is true in commercial quantities, I do not believe it is true for a few boxes here and there to friends. I would have to see the code citation on that one.

Regards
There is no 'code,' it is one of their 'interpretations.' That is why I said "ATF Illegal" and not just "Illegal."

Oddly, from what I managed to gather in conversation, it is the ATF that isn't willing to press the issue in court. It was explained to me that, since the Brass endures use, and all else is expended, that it is 'the ammo' much in the way that the receiver is 'the gun.' Everything else is just parts. I don't know if it is case law, but the Agents I spoke too seemed to believe that it would be considered multiple taxation, and that they wouldn't have a leg to stand on. So they just lean on people to see if they give in.
 
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