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Thread: Knife law interpetation

  1. #1
    Regular Member MarlboroLts5150's Avatar
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    http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscur..._0134-0051.htm

    Need some help in trying to understand this law. Almost every other state I have been in I never had an issue open carrying a sheathed fixed blade knife. But, here in Hawaii, I can't seem to get a grasp on it. I've seen other people here carrying sheathed knives, they say they have had no problems. I still carry a folding knife in my pocket (out of sight, out of mind) but I miss my stick. Knives like this come in very handy, not just for self-defense.

    Being in the military, I can't just "buck the system" and be "that guy" so to speak. I've googled various sites for interpetation of knife laws, but not much help.

    Not being able to carry a sidearm here makes me miss my stick even more.

    Yes? No? Not sure?
    "My dedication to my country's flag rests on my ardent belief in this noblest of causes, equality for all. If my future rests under this earth rather than upon it, I fear not."

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    Regular Member MarlboroLts5150's Avatar
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    This is what I have....I've carried this style for years. Comes with a black polymer sheath.

    https://www.kabar.com/product/produc...urpose/Utility
    "My dedication to my country's flag rests on my ardent belief in this noblest of causes, equality for all. If my future rests under this earth rather than upon it, I fear not."

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    MarlboroLts5150 wrote:
    This is what I have....I've carried this style for years. Comes with a black polymer sheath.

    https://www.kabar.com/product/produc...urpose/Utility
    I have one like that, and many others. Sorry, but try the Hawaii forum for knife laws. I carry a Randall Model One in plain sight in California every day, which is not known for pineapple production. Can't comment on the islands. Good luck!

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Read the law. It prohibits carrying "concealed" any "dirk, dagger, blackjack, slug shot, billy, metal knuckles, pistol, or other deadly or dangerous weapon".

    It also prohibits carrying concealed within a vehicle: "...carries concealed upon the person's self or within any vehicle used or occupied by the person."

    That knife should be just fine. Any other knife laws there? I would avoid concealing that knife, in CA that would be considered a "dirk" or a "dagger".

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    Actually, you need to read the law; some, as you quoted, applies to knifes, but dirks, daggers? My salami sword is legal in Japenese communities, as is my openly carried Bowie in a sheath of dried Japenese seaweed.

    My 1991 A1 Colt .45 can be openly (in plain sight) carried unloaded legally in California, as long as I have loaded clips in plain sight.

    Sounds a little nuts, does it not? Fruits and nuts, that's California. Now getting a CCW permit is impossible in California, unless you have never been arrested in Pasadena. For anything. We are currently emptying our prisons of not so serious felons due to budget cuts, so, this too, should not be a problem.

    Maybe we can arrange for them to get guns, too (as if a person's background had any control over one's ability to obtain an unregistered weapon).

    That's the problem with this whole damned country. You can pass all the laws you want about gun control, but Brady still got shot. That's what's wrong with gun legislation; criminals tend to ignore all legislation. Why is that? Ask congress. Better yet, ask Congress why they waste my time with "Bradey" type legislation?

    Are they stupid, or just dumb? Or wasting our funds, which could be better spent by fat politicians higher on the hog?



    Could our elected officials be replaced by hill billy dummies? Mostly not, I think, but it's high time to kick ass on Capitol Hill, IMHO.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Lead Lobber, are you trolling my posts?

    Yet again, you make literally no sense.

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    Regular Member MarlboroLts5150's Avatar
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    marshaul wrote:
    Read the law. It prohibits carrying "concealed" any "dirk, dagger, blackjack, slug shot, billy, metal knuckles, pistol, or other deadly or dangerous weapon".

    It also prohibits carrying concealed within a vehicle: "...carries concealed upon the person's self or within any vehicle used or occupied by the person."

    That knife should be just fine. Any other knife laws there? I would avoid concealing that knife, in CA that would be considered a "dirk" or a "dagger".
    The concealed part I got. Not planning or wanting to carry it concealed. My question concerns the wording.....

    "Any person, not authorized by law, who carries concealed upon the person's self or within any vehicle used or occupied by the person or who is found armed with..."

    The part in red is where my concern lies. In opinion, would that cover open carry as well?
    "My dedication to my country's flag rests on my ardent belief in this noblest of causes, equality for all. If my future rests under this earth rather than upon it, I fear not."

    -Leopold Karpeles, US Civil War Medal of Honor Recipient

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    This site may help you figure things out a little bit, http://www.knifelawsonline.com/knifehome

    But please take the time to look at the actual Hawaii statutes and make sure the local statutes do not differ. It would suck to believe you are being well within the law and find out at the time of your arraignment that you were not

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    Regular Member MarlboroLts5150's Avatar
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    The one good thing here is only ONE set of statutes, laws. Hawaii doesn't look at the laws as being state or local, just the laws of the islands.

    Looks like I'm ok though. The type of knife I'm wanting to carry is considered a Bowie-type knife, not specifically designed or sole-purpose as a weapon.
    "My dedication to my country's flag rests on my ardent belief in this noblest of causes, equality for all. If my future rests under this earth rather than upon it, I fear not."

    -Leopold Karpeles, US Civil War Medal of Honor Recipient

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    MarlboroLts5150 wrote:
    marshaul wrote:
    Read the law. It prohibits carrying "concealed" any "dirk, dagger, blackjack, slug shot, billy, metal knuckles, pistol, or other deadly or dangerous weapon".

    It also prohibits carrying concealed within a vehicle: "...carries concealed upon the person's self or within any vehicle used or occupied by the person."

    That knife should be just fine. Any other knife laws there? I would avoid concealing that knife, in CA that would be considered a "dirk" or a "dagger".
    The concealed part I got. Not planning or wanting to carry it concealed. My question concerns the wording.....

    "Any person, not authorized by law, who carries concealed upon the person's self or within any vehicle used or occupied by the person or who is found armed with..."

    The part in red is where my concern lies. In opinion, would that cover open carry as well?
    Sorry, that's a really good point.

    Is there any case law you can find, or perhaps a lawyer you can ask, which well help us to define "is armed with"?

    Strictly grammatically I would say that prohibits all carry, but it seems the intent is to prohibit concealed carry. Perhaps this is intended to be a reference to brandishing or otherwise presently holding such a knife as a weapon?

    Court precedent is the only way to answer such a question. Barring that, I might carry a folder if I were you.

    That is, unless Hawaii has other knife laws aside from this one.

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    Yes sir, trolling I am, especially that last one. You need to light a shuck and ride as far and fast as you can, because you don't belong here, unless you need ridicule in your life. Your choice.

    Call me, so I can argue with you more .... your views are so silly, it appears your thought process have yet to mature.

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    marshaul wrote:
    MarlboroLts5150 wrote:
    marshaul wrote:
    Read the law. It prohibits carrying "concealed" any "dirk, dagger, blackjack, slug shot, billy, metal knuckles, pistol, or other deadly or dangerous weapon".

    It also prohibits carrying concealed within a vehicle: "...carries concealed upon the person's self or within any vehicle used or occupied by the person."

    That knife should be just fine. Any other knife laws there? I would avoid concealing that knife, in CA that would be considered a "dirk" or a "dagger".
    The concealed part I got. Not planning or wanting to carry it concealed. My question concerns the wording.....

    "Any person, not authorized by law, who carries concealed upon the person's self or within any vehicle used or occupied by the person or who is found armed with..."

    The part in red is where my concern lies. In opinion, would that cover open carry as well?
    Sorry, that's a really good point.

    Is there any case law you can find, or perhaps a lawyer you can ask, which well help us to define "is armed with"?

    Strictly grammatically I would say that prohibits all carry, but it seems the intent is to prohibit concealed carry. Perhaps this is intended to be a reference to brandishing or otherwise presently holding such a knife as a weapon?

    Court precedent is the only way to answer such a question. Barring that, I might carry a folder if I were you.

    That is, unless Hawaii has other knife laws aside from this one.
    Sounds like Mars is setting himself up for target preparation. Fools that try to haul themselves to Mars come up short. Not enough rocket fuel, so Mars can't Haul himself to Mars, or the nearer planets ....

    So, you are out of gas, Marshaul ... we watch as you spin down into the sun.

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    Lead Lobber wrote:
    marshaul wrote:
    MarlboroLts5150 wrote:
    marshaul wrote:
    Read the law. It prohibits carrying "concealed" any "dirk, dagger, blackjack, slug shot, billy, metal knuckles, pistol, or other deadly or dangerous weapon".

    It also prohibits carrying concealed within a vehicle: "...carries concealed upon the person's self or within any vehicle used or occupied by the person."

    That knife should be just fine. Any other knife laws there? I would avoid concealing that knife, in CA that would be considered a "dirk" or a "dagger".
    The concealed part I got. Not planning or wanting to carry it concealed. My question concerns the wording.....

    "Any person, not authorized by law, who carries concealed upon the person's self or within any vehicle used or occupied by the person or who is found armed with..."

    The part in red is where my concern lies. In opinion, would that cover open carry as well?
    Sorry, that's a really good point.

    Is there any case law you can find, or perhaps a lawyer you can ask, which well help us to define "is armed with"?

    Strictly grammatically I would say that prohibits all carry, but it seems the intent is to prohibit concealed carry. Perhaps this is intended to be a reference to brandishing or otherwise presently holding such a knife as a weapon?

    Court precedent is the only way to answer such a question. Barring that, I might carry a folder if I were you.

    That is, unless Hawaii has other knife laws aside from this one.
    Sounds like Mars is setting himself up for target preparation. Fools that try to haul themselves to Mars come up short. Not enough rocket fuel, so Mars can't Haul himself to Mars, or the nearer planets ....

    So, you are out of gas, Marshaul ... we watch as you spin down into the sun.
    And who wrote this silly paragraph? Don't see a signature, but fools usually avoid detection by being silent.

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    Lead Lobber wrote:
    Lead Lobber wrote:
    marshaul wrote:
    MarlboroLts5150 wrote:
    marshaul wrote:
    Read the law. It prohibits carrying "concealed" any "dirk, dagger, blackjack, slug shot, billy, metal knuckles, pistol, or other deadly or dangerous weapon".

    It also prohibits carrying concealed within a vehicle: "...carries concealed upon the person's self or within any vehicle used or occupied by the person."

    That knife should be just fine. Any other knife laws there? I would avoid concealing that knife, in CA that would be considered a "dirk" or a "dagger".
    The concealed part I got. Not planning or wanting to carry it concealed. My question concerns the wording.....

    "Any person, not authorized by law, who carries concealed upon the person's self or within any vehicle used or occupied by the person or who is found armed with..."

    The part in red is where my concern lies. In opinion, would that cover open carry as well?
    Sorry, that's a really good point.

    Is there any case law you can find, or perhaps a lawyer you can ask, which well help us to define "is armed with"?

    Strictly grammatically I would say that prohibits all carry, but it seems the intent is to prohibit concealed carry. Perhaps this is intended to be a reference to brandishing or otherwise presently holding such a knife as a weapon?

    Court precedent is the only way to answer such a question. Barring that, I might carry a folder if I were you.

    That is, unless Hawaii has other knife laws aside from this one.
    Sounds like Mars is setting himself up for target preparation. Fools that try to haul themselves to Mars come up short. Not enough rocket fuel, so Mars can't Haul himself to Mars, or the nearer planets ....

    So, you are out of gas, Marshaul ... we watch as you spin down into the sun.
    And who wrote this silly paragraph? Don't see a signature, but fools usually avoid detection by being silent.
    Thus the multiple paragraphs above without an author ....

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    The sheeper dip gets, the less goats listen.

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    look up california law,derk=spike,dagger=blade sharp on both sides.the k-bar is legal to open carry but LEO's dont like it.One more thing is depends on what city and county you live in as to how long the blade can be under 3 or 4 inch concealed(if folded is legal) longer needs to be open carried but how long is diffined by where you live in the car just throw it up on the dash...

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    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    Lead Lobber, what the h are you spewing? Have you been smoking lead? Your post makes no logical sense.
    Remember Peter Nap and Skidmark. Do them proud. Be active. Be well informed. ALL rights matter.

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    I carry these openly in Arizona w/o incident. They are 'Arms'. If I were to carry concealed, (not that I would) I'm still 'good' asI have an AZ CWP (Concealed Weapons Permit) which covers all concealed weapons, not just handguns. A pocket knife (folder) of any size may be carried concealed however. Just one of the details that does not make life miserable with a raft of exceptions and legal clutter as is fond elsewhere. Common sense 'laws' really do make sense.

    The cigarette pack is for scale.

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    brokenbarrel wrote:
    look up california law,derk=spike,dagger=blade sharp on both sides.the k-bar is legal to open carry but LEO's dont like it.
    OKAY, I looked up California Law, aka California Penal Code and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with "blade sharp on both sides". California Law uses its own definitions, not necessarily having anything to do with the ones in the dictionary. Counties and Cities have their own definitions in their code also. So you have to look in the Code for the definitions in order to understand the meaning of the Code.

    12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
    (4) Carries concealed upon his or her person any dirk or dagger.


    and

    (24) As used in this section, a "dirk" or "dagger" means a knife or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death. A nonlocking folding knife, a folding knife that is not prohibited by Section 653k, or a pocketknife is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death only if the blade of the knife is exposed and locked into position.


    brokenbarrel wrote:
    One more thing is depends on what city and county you live in as to how long the blade can be under 3 or 4 inch concealed(if folded is legal) longer needs to be open carried but how long is diffined by where you live in the car just throw it up on the dash...
    There are no County or City Codes that I am aware of (and I have reviewed most of them) that regulate the length on any folding knife that is carried concealed. There are no requirements at all that a large folding knife be carried openly.

    There are County and City Codes that require you NOT to openly carry any knife with a blade LONGER than 3 inches.

    Los Angeles County has such an ordinance. LA County Code 13.62

    13.62.010 Knives and daggers defined. As used in this chapter, the terms “knives and daggers” shall include any knife having a blade of three inches or more in length; any spring-blade, switch-blade or snap-blade knife; any knife any blade of which is automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical device; any ice pick or similar sharp stabbing tool; any straight-edge razor or any razor blade fitted to a handle. (Ord. 11915 § 1, 1979.)

    13.62.020 Carrying knives and daggers in plain view prohibited. It is unlawful for any person to carry on his person, in plain view, any knife or dagger. (Ord. 11915 § 2, 1979.)

    13.62.030 Exemptions to chapter applicability. The foregoing restrictions shall not be deemed to prohibit the carrying of ordinary tools or equipment for use in a lawful occupation or for the purpose of lawful recreation, or where the carrying of a knife or dagger is a recognized religious practice. (Ord. 11915 § 3, 1979.)

    13.62.040 Violation--Penalty. Any person violating this chapter is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not exceeding $500.00 or by imprisonment in the County Jail for a period not exceeding six months, or by both such fine and imprisonment. (Ord. 11915 § 4, 1979.)

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    Regular Member MarlboroLts5150's Avatar
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    Thanks for the help guys. I appreciate it. It is just so frustrating...the laws here.There are alot of things I like about being stationed here, but it will be great to get back to the mainland and get settled in Phoenix. Unfortunately, thats about 3 years away.

    Be nice to see a change in the laws here before I leave. Alot of us have been working hard (without much effect or support) to change things here.

    Hopefully.
    "My dedication to my country's flag rests on my ardent belief in this noblest of causes, equality for all. If my future rests under this earth rather than upon it, I fear not."

    -Leopold Karpeles, US Civil War Medal of Honor Recipient

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    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
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    riverrat10k wrote:
    Lead Lobber, what the h are you spewing? Have you been smoking lead? Your post makes no logical sense.
    I noticed the Lobber got banned and I tried researching his past posts. He did seem a bit radical but I am now reassured that mere radicality - to a point - does not merit a ban. Lobber just plain went nuts.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Lobber was a troll, pretending to be pro-OC so as to make us all seem literally insane.

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    I wouldn't doubt he was the same guy from the IMF who was asking about bullets for infanticide in the thread John locked.

    The problem with any growing site is that you get more oxygen thieves along with the attention.

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