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Thread: Examiner.com: Virginia Senator proposes mail order gun carry permits

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    Please SUBSCRIBE to this column at http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gun-Rights-Examiner and DIGG & REDDIT this article at http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gu...-carry-permits

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    http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gu...-carry-permits

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    Virginia State Senator Ralph K. Smith (R - Roanoke) has pre-filed Senate Bill 3 ahead of the 2010 Virginia General Assembly session. . . . Senator Smith's mail order gun permit proposal is likely the first of an avalanche of mainly pro but also some anti-gun rights bills to be considered by the 2010 Virginia General Assembly. Virginia Citizens Defense League President Philip Van Cleave expects pro-gun bills to do well in the 2010 session in part because of election victories by pro-gun House of Delegate candidates last month.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    I guess that crazy guy at the Roanoke Times will have a lot of fun inventing reasons to oppose all the gun bills this year.

    I wonder what horror story he can come up with for this one?

    TFred


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    That's odd. Why would such a statute be necessary. There's nothing in 18.2-308 that requires a personal appearance in the Clerk's office, either for initial application or for renewal. There's no legal reason why a person couldn't mail those things in. I always recommend showing up in person in order to obtain a file-stamped copy of the application, but that's not required. And the clerk's office has no discretion about whether or not to accept a document submitted by mail, except for some things that have to be recorded in land records with an affidavit.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    user wrote:
    That's odd. Why would such a statute be necessary. There's nothing in 18.2-308 that requires a personal appearance in the Clerk's office, either for initial application or for renewal. There's no legal reason why a person couldn't mail those things in. I always recommend showing up in person in order to obtain a file-stamped copy of the application, but that's not required. And the clerk's office has no discretion about whether or not to accept a document submitted by mail, except for some things that have to be recorded in land records with an affidavit.
    Perhaps it's being done to make it codified as an available option. When my CHP came back approved, Norfolk required me to come down and pick it up. Having it mailed or otherwise obtained was not allowed. Doing so was not a big deal really as I just went a different way home and stopped by to pick it up at the end of the day.

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    user wrote:
    And the clerk's office has no discretion about whether or not to accept a document submitted by mail, except for some things that have to be recorded in land records with an affidavit.
    Do you have any cite to authority on that?

    I thought that court Clerks have wide discretion to set and enforce matters of custom, practice, and local procedure at that Court.

    Also, we know that Fairfax County Circuit Court Clerk is actually rejecting applications for concealed handgun permits (instead of accepting them and forwarding them to the judge and police for approval/denial) if the applicant does not provide certain locally mandated items, e.g., proof of residency from a very narrow list of documents establshed apparently by the Fairfax County police Department. This list does not include a Virginia driver's license and makes it extremely difficult for newresidents and traditional "housewives" who do not have their name on any lease or utility bill document.

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    Mike wrote:
    user wrote:
    And the clerk's office has no discretion about whether or not to accept a document submitted by mail, except for some things that have to be recorded in land records with an affidavit.
    Do you have any cite to authority on that?

    I thought that court Clerks have wide discretion to set and enforce matters of custom, practice, and local procedure at that Court.*

    Also, we know that Fairfax County Circuit Court Clerk is actually rejecting applications for concealed handgun permits (instead of accepting them and forwarding them to the judge and police for approval/denial) if the applicant does not provide certain locally mandated items, e.g., proof of residency from a very narrow list of documents establshed apparently by the Fairfax County police Department.* This list does not include a Virginia driver's license and makes it extremely difficult for newresidents and traditional "housewives" who do not have their name on any lease or utility bill document.
    Mike,

    I thought state law preempts local law. If this is true the Circuit Court clerk is violating state law by not accepting the applications. As far as proof of residency can they not use the application found on the VSP web site and file it locally? Something is screwy.:shock:

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    gador wrote:
    I thought state law preempts local law. If this is true the Circuit Court clerk is violating state law by not accepting the applications. As far as proof of residency can they not use the application found on the VSP web site and file it locally? Something is screwy.:shock:
    Circuit court clerks are both constitutional officers and state agencies - a hybrid office, but not a locality.

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    Mike wrote:
    gador wrote:
    I thought state law preempts local law. If this is true the Circuit Court clerk is violating state law by not accepting the applications. As far as proof of residency can they not use the application found on the VSP web site and file it locally? Something is screwy.:shock:
    Circuit court clerks are both constitutional officers and state agencies - a hybrid office, but not a locality.
    Ok, the clerk is still not following state law.
    Is there a reason one cannot apply directly through the VSP? Has anybody tried that? Just a question don't shoot me!

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    gador wrote:
    Ok, the clerk is still not following state law.
    that's an arguable position - some clerks argue they are carrying out the intent of state law and have the inherent power as a separate branch of government to establish their own procedures.



    And o, only non-residents like yu can apply to the VSP.

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    Mike wrote:
    gador wrote:
    Ok, the clerk is still not following state law.
    that's an arguable position - some clerks argue they are carrying out the intent of state law and have the inherent power as a separate branch of government to establish their own procedures.



    And o, only non-residents like yu can apply to the VSP.
    That's been my impression of a certain court in Arkansas who continually fails to enforce a simple Consent Divorce Decree. That there doesn't appear to be any legal redress for grievances for the common citizen is an outage.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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