Mo.Co. Original
Regular Member
imported post
Just curious on this one. As in like a public place regular citizen type deal.
Just curious on this one. As in like a public place regular citizen type deal.
Why were the charges dropped, Nutczak?I have been charged with battery of a public servant once already (the charges were laterdropped) whensomeone idiot grabbed me from behind and surprised me. I pushed into this unknown person to knock them off-balance and then came around with my other arm and punched this person in the chest as hard as I possibly could.
Imagine the look of shock on my face when I saw a sheriff's deputy landing on his ass and heard the wind getting knocked out of him, then the sound of him trying to catch his breath while on his hands and knees wheezing! The rest of the night got real ugly, real fast after that incident. I stopped after my initial hit, backed up and put my hands on top of my head to show surrender. Then the SOB tackeled me and tried to beat me whern I was not resisting.
Treat anyone who tries to take your weapon out of its holster as someone attempting to get your gun and use it against you. Use whatever force is necessary to prevent an attacker from getting your gun. Anyone who tries to get your gun IS AN ATTACKER. If they actaully get it out of the holster, they could easily use it to kill you or anyone else around you. This is a situation where you would probably be justified in using deadly force.
Train in at least some basic weapon retention techniques. Your life might depend on it.
Sounds like the brutality in the last sentence would cover it.Nutczak wrote:Why were the charges dropped, Nutczak?I have been charged with battery of a public servant once already (the charges were laterdropped) whensomeone idiot grabbed me from behind and surprised me. I pushed into this unknown person to knock them off-balance and then came around with my other arm and punched this person in the chest as hard as I possibly could.
Imagine the look of shock on my face when I saw a sheriff's deputy landing on his ass and heard the wind getting knocked out of him, then the sound of him trying to catch his breath while on his hands and knees wheezing! The rest of the night got real ugly, real fast after that incident. I stopped after my initial hit, backed up and put my hands on top of my head to show surrender. Then the SOB tackeled me and tried to beat me whern I was not resisting.
[align=left]I would caution against shooting someone unless they have managed to gain unauthorized possession of your loaded firearm or were already armed prior to attacking you. Personally, I'd strongly recommend using other forms of retention techniques as well as some PPCT techniques.
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Its a good idea to keep everything nonlethal if possible andfollow theescalation of force protocol.
This is what OC, batons, and tasers are designed for and they are allusually very effective if deployed properly.
Don't use your gun in asituation like this unlessyou have no other options left.
Using a firearm against a singleattacker that is not armed (unless they were already armed at the time of attacking you or they somehow managed to gain unauthorized possession of your loaded sidearm) will probably land you in a lot of legal trouble.
There is no sense in losing your right to own firearms for doing something dumb such as not following the escalation of force rules.
YOU don't want to look like the aggressor in court, and believe me, a good prosecutor is going to try to make you look like the aggressor.
Thats my opinion on this.
Thats why I say first use retention techniques, then spray, then go from there if whatever methods you are deploying don't seem to be working. I'm not saying DF isn't an option, because it is. Just make sure you've exhausted everything else before making the decision to shoot.
Sounds like a religious experience.All Hell would break loose....at least for a few seconds.
Grapeshot....I like to say "You'd rather french kiss a rattlesnake than mess with me".
I second all the ripping done by Gordie:lol::lol:LRS76251 wrote:[align=left]I would caution against shooting someone unless they have managed to gain unauthorized possession of your loaded firearm or were already armed prior to attacking you. Personally, I'd strongly recommend using other forms of retention techniques as well as some PPCT techniques.
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Are you nuts?What if, in trying to follow these "other forms of retention techniques" I fail, and the attacker gets my gun? What am I supposed toshoot them withAFTER they have control of my gun?
Its a good idea to keep everything nonlethal if possible andfollow theescalation of force protocol.
THEY have already escalated the situation by trying to takeMY gun. They can keep it nonlethal by keeping to themselves.
This is what OC, batons, and tasers are designed for and they are allusually very effective if deployed properly.
Who carries all of this crap with them every day, except LEOs?
Don't use your gun in asituation like this unlessyou have no other options left.
They have already exhausted my other options by trying for my gun.
Using a firearm against a singleattacker that is not armed (unless they were already armed at the time of attacking you or they somehow managed to gain unauthorized possession of your loaded sidearm) will probably land you in a lot of legal trouble.
Not in any of the "free" states. Once again, what are you supposed to useafter they have your gun?
Q: When does an assault become dangerous enough to justify use of DF?
A: When the assaulter attacks you.
Just because they may not be armed, doesn't mean that they are not dangerous. If they get my gun, then I know that they are dangerous.
There is no sense in losing your right to own firearms for doing something dumb such as not following the escalation of force rules.
There is no sense in letting someone get your gun and losing your right tolive because you are afraid of some anti-gun official getting upset about your choice to survive. Only a bureaucrat, lawyer, or cop worries about "escalation of force rules" when fighting for control of a gun.
YOU don't want to look like the aggressor in court, and believe me, a good prosecutor is going to try to make you look like the aggressor.
Only the most rabid anti-gunner would try to say that you were the aggressor in this situation. Even if that happened, better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.
Thats my opinion on this.
You are entitled to it, but I can't help but think that only someone who has spent an extended time as a LEO in a very restrictivepart of the country,would buy into what you are saying. I can't help but think that you must be a cop, or have been one in the past. Not everyone (very few in fact)goes about their daily business with a duty belt full of gear on them.
Thats why I say first use retention techniques, then spray, then go from there if whatever methods you are deploying don't seem to be working. I'm not saying DF isn't an option, because it is. Just make sure you've exhausted everything else before making the decision to shoot.
I agree on the retention thing (No.1 priority is keeping possession of your gun), but after that, I'm probably not going to want to go into a long debate about what their intentions are.
No person in their right mind is going to try for your gun with only honorable intentions. They go for the gun, they are up to no good. They are bent on violenceat worst, stupid beyond belief at best. Either way, they are an immediate threat to the personal safety of yourself and all around you. Treat them as such.
TheMrMitch wrote:Sounds like a religious experience.All Hell would break loose....at least for a few seconds.
Grapeshot....I like to say "You'd rather french kiss a rattlesnake than mess with me".
Yata hey
Nobody said you have to carry all of that gear. However, I would highly recommend having at least one non-lethal option at your disposal. If you don't want to take heedto what I had to say, then fine, you don't have to. Its your butt, not mine. I'm trying to pass on some experience so you don't have to live it. I used to teach this sort of thing to civilians as well as federal government personnel at one time in my life and know what I'm talking about.
Its a good idea to get training in things other than just firearms because not every encounter is going to be one where using a firearm would be justified. At a minimum, get some OC spray and learn how to use it properly. There are lots of good brands out there...Vexor, Saber Red, First Defense, FOX, Punch II/III, ASP OC kubatons, etc. Pick one and learn how to use it. Check your local laws for any size restrictions or mixture restrictions and possession laws. Some places are more strict than others such as NY and CA.
Just because someone goes for your gun doesn't mean you can shoot them.Everydefensive situation is different and you have to use good judgement based on what is happening at the time. If you jump the gun, more than likely, itsgoing to be YOUR butt facing charges. The actualaggressor won't be facing charges because he'll be dead and will probablybe referred to as the "victim" by a prosecutor.
This IS great advice. In my situation, I am familiar with local LE, prosecutors, and a few judges (rural areas with small populations can be nice that way), andI am confidant that they would be sympathetic to the victim of the attack. If I was dealing with anyone else, I would definitely lawyer up.Another thing, if youfind yourself in a self defense situation, whatever you do, please keep inmind that you have a right to remain silent. DO NOT assume the police will be sympatheticto you and will be on your side. They will NOT. They are on the scene to investigate a homicide and you will be the one holding the smoking gun. Call your attorney and SHUT UP!!!!