Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 43

Thread: Michigan AG: Open carry allowed on Michigan campuses, classrooms, and dorms

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    24

    Post imported post

    Question: Does anyone have a link to this opinion or was it an informal opinion?

    --

    "According to a recent ruling from Michigan Attorney General Mike Cox and the Michigan State Police, licensed concealed carry permit holders may openly carry a firearm into a pistol exclusion zones including dormitories and classrooms."

    http://ypsinews.com/index.php/200912...uns-on-campus/

    Anyone know if this is true?

    Anyone want to petition Cuccinelli to make this true in VA?

    -----
    Ken Stanton
    VP and Founder, SCCC at VT

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    US
    Posts
    3,156

    Post imported post

    There is currently no law prohibiting ANYONE, permitted or not, from open carrying in classrooms or dorms in VA.

    That said, we need to get a law passed that prohibits universities from prohibiting students/staff/faculty from carrying firearms they can legally do so anywhere else on/in public property/buildings.

    I hear SCCC @ VT is going to try to have a bill introduced this go around?

  3. #3
    Regular Member CRF250rider1000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Herndon, VA & Martinsville, VA
    Posts
    1,448

    Post imported post

    AWESOME! I used to be a student at MSU so now I can go OC or CC there I assume?:celebrate

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    24

    Post imported post

    nova wrote:
    There is currently no law prohibiting ANYONE, permitted or not, from open carrying in classrooms or dorms in VA.

    That said, we need to get a law passed that prohibits universities from prohibiting students/staff/faculty from carrying firearms they can legally do so anywhere else on/in public property/buildings.

    I hear SCCC @ VT is going to try to have a bill introduced this go around?
    There will be a bill introduced, and we will be supporting it, yes.

    Also, on the legality issue - there is no law prohibiting concealed or open carry on campus in VA. The institutions that ban guns on campus can only punish violators by expulsion. However, there is a AG opinion (05-078) that says colleges CAN make rules to govern concealed carry.

    I wonder if we could confirm that open carry is not able to be restricted?

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    Posts
    970

    Post imported post

    I wish the SCCC group at Mason would get started up again. I just registered for classes for my first semester at GMU this morning.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    US
    Posts
    3,156

    Post imported post

    vt007ken wrote:
    nova wrote:
    There is currently no law prohibiting ANYONE, permitted or not, from open carrying in classrooms or dorms in VA.

    That said, we need to get a law passed that prohibits universities from prohibiting students/staff/faculty from carrying firearms they can legally do so anywhere else on/in public property/buildings.

    I hear SCCC @ VT is going to try to have a bill introduced this go around?
    There will be a bill introduced, and we will be supporting it, yes.

    Also, on the legality issue - there is no law prohibiting concealed or open carry on campus in VA. The institutions that ban guns on campus can only punish violators by expulsion. However, there is a AG opinion (05-078) that says colleges CAN make rules to govern concealed carry.

    I wonder if we could confirm that open carry is not able to be restricted?
    I'm sure our new AG will have a differing opinion on the matter

    As for if colleges can restrict OC on campus, the Fairfax Co. Circuit Court stated that OC is a protected right and is allowed generally on campus (referring to GMU which has their regulation in Virginia Admin. Code).

    hunter45 wrote:
    I wish the SCCC group at Mason would get started up again. I just registered for classes for my first semester at GMU this morning.
    Spring '10? Sweet
    I'd love to see SCCC get revived at GMU.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    Posts
    970

    Post imported post

    nova wrote:
    (referring to GMU which has their regulation in Virginia Admin. Code).

    hunter45 wrote:
    I wish the SCCC group at Mason would get started up again. I just registered for classes for my first semester at GMU this morning.
    Spring '10? Sweet
    I'd love to see SCCC get revived at GMU.
    Yep! I would love to help with getting it started up again, but I don't want to have to be the campus leader, I'm too lazy to run an organization. :P

    Our President at JMU is graduating in May and no one is volunteering to take his place (there's only about 10 of us that actually show up to the meetings). So I think our group here may be in danger of becoming inactive, too.

  8. #8
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,602

    Post imported post

    hunter45 wrote:
    nova wrote:
    (referring to GMU which has their regulation in Virginia Admin. Code).

    hunter45 wrote:
    I wish the SCCC group at Mason would get started up again. I just registered for classes for my first semester at GMU this morning.
    Spring '10? Sweet
    I'd love to see SCCC get revived at GMU.
    Yep! I would love to help with getting it started up again, but I don't want to have to be the campus leader, I'm too lazy to run an organization. :P

    Our President at JMU is graduating in May and no one is volunteering to take his place (there's only about 10 of us that actually show up to the meetings). So I think our group here may be in danger of becoming inactive, too.
    Operate the chapter by committee - share the responsibilities. Stay involved.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran pourshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Stafford, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    405

    Post imported post

    From the VCDL Places where carry is prohibited card...

    VCU - 8 VAC-90-10-50 http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...g+8VAC90-10-30

    and

    GMU - 8 VAC-35-60-20 (no on-line link found. I think this was added as a cautionary note)

    and lastly...

    Students of almost ALL universities as they have a prohibition against it in student code. A code you said you would follow by enrolling....



    Silly stuff...

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    24

    Post imported post

    pourshot wrote:
    From the VCDL Places where carry is prohibited card...

    VCU - 8 VAC-90-10-50 http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...g+8VAC90-10-30

    and

    GMU - 8 VAC-35-60-20 (no on-line link found.* I think this was added as a cautionary note)

    and lastly...

    Students of almost ALL universities as they have a prohibition against it in student code.* A code you said you would follow by enrolling....
    I'm not sure what this was a reply to.

    Anyway, you need to separate the first 2 from the last one - the first two are law, the last one is policy. AG 05-078 shows that school's own policies can only affect someone's enrollment/employment with the school, nothing more.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    RVA, ,
    Posts
    279

    Post imported post

    vt007ken wrote:
    pourshot wrote:
    From the VCDL Places where carry is prohibited card...

    VCU - 8 VAC-90-10-50 http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...g+8VAC90-10-30

    and

    GMU - 8 VAC-35-60-20 (no on-line link found.* I think this was added as a cautionary note)

    and lastly...

    Students of almost ALL universities as they have a prohibition against it in student code.* A code you said you would follow by enrolling....
    I'm not sure what this was a reply to.

    Anyway, you need to separate the first 2 from the last one - the first two are law, the last one is policy. AG 05-078 shows that school's own policies can only affect someone's enrollment/employment with the school, nothing more.
    Virginia Administrative Code is NOT law.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    24

    Post imported post

    essayons wrote:
    vt007ken wrote:
    pourshot wrote:
    From the VCDL Places where carry is prohibited card...

    VCU - 8 VAC-90-10-50 http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...g+8VAC90-10-30

    and

    GMU - 8 VAC-35-60-20 (no on-line link found.* I think this was added as a cautionary note)

    and lastly...

    Students of almost ALL universities as they have a prohibition against it in student code.* A code you said you would follow by enrolling....
    I'm not sure what this was a reply to.

    Anyway, you need to separate the first 2 from the last one - the first two are law, the last one is policy. AG 05-078 shows that school's own policies can only affect someone's enrollment/employment with the school, nothing more.
    Virginia Administrative Code is NOT law.
    Substantiate your claim - it is enforced as law, making it illegal to carry on GMU and VCU campuses.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    US
    Posts
    3,156

    Post imported post

    vt007ken wrote:
    essayons wrote:
    vt007ken wrote:
    pourshot wrote:
    From the VCDL Places where carry is prohibited card...

    VCU - 8 VAC-90-10-50 http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...g+8VAC90-10-30

    and

    GMU - 8 VAC-35-60-20 (no on-line link found. I think this was added as a cautionary note)

    and lastly...

    Students of almost ALL universities as they have a prohibition against it in student code. A code you said you would follow by enrolling....
    I'm not sure what this was a reply to.

    Anyway, you need to separate the first 2 from the last one - the first two are law, the last one is policy. AG 05-078 shows that school's own policies can only affect someone's enrollment/employment with the school, nothing more.
    Virginia Administrative Code is NOT law.
    Substantiate your claim - it is enforced as law, making it illegal to carry on GMU and VCU campuses.

    I must clarify something here. It is not illegal to carry on GMU's campus. The VAC regulation specifically says academic buildings, administrative office buildings, student residence buildings, dining facilities, or while attending sporting, entertainment or educational events.

    Here's the general table of contents of the VAC regarding GMU:
    http://leg1.state.va.us/000/reg/TOC08035.HTM

    Here's the specific VAC regulation regarding weapons on campus:
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...g+8VAC35-60-20

    definitions:
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...g+8VAC35-60-10



  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    US
    Posts
    3,156

    Post imported post

    nova wrote:
    vt007ken wrote:
    essayons wrote:
    vt007ken wrote:
    pourshot wrote:
    From the VCDL Places where carry is prohibited card...

    VCU - 8 VAC-90-10-50 http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...g+8VAC90-10-30

    and

    GMU - 8 VAC-35-60-20 (no on-line link found. I think this was added as a cautionary note)

    and lastly...

    Students of almost ALL universities as they have a prohibition against it in student code. A code you said you would follow by enrolling....
    I'm not sure what this was a reply to.

    Anyway, you need to separate the first 2 from the last one - the first two are law, the last one is policy. AG 05-078 shows that school's own policies can only affect someone's enrollment/employment with the school, nothing more.
    Virginia Administrative Code is NOT law.
    Substantiate your claim - it is enforced as law, making it illegal to carry on GMU and VCU campuses.

    I must clarify something here. It is not illegal to carry on GMU's campus. The VAC regulation specifically says academic buildings, administrative office buildings, student residence buildings, dining facilities, or while attending sporting, entertainment or educational events.

    When a member here went to court both the representative of GMU and the judge from Fairfax County Circuit Court said that nothing prohibited anyone from open carrying a firearm on GMU's campus.

    Here's the general table of contents of the VAC regarding GMU:
    http://leg1.state.va.us/000/reg/TOC08035.HTM

    Here's the specific VAC regulation regarding weapons on campus:
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...g+8VAC35-60-20

    definitions:
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...g+8VAC35-60-10


  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Haymarket/Gainesville/Arlington/GMU , Virginia, USA
    Posts
    227

    Post imported post

    Youve got three people interested in SCCC on GMU's Fairfax campus. I do agree that with all the time and activity it requires, its hard to run something like that and maintain a normal life :P

    But Grapeshot did make a point, run it by committee. If it was several people contributing, then it lightens the load on everyone, but it just as effective.
    OC - Kimber Custom II - trijicon night sights, beveled mag well, and Wilson combat mags
    CC/OC Sig Sauer 229 - trijicon night sights

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    Posts
    970

    Post imported post

    NightmareSHANIQUA wrote:
    Youve got three people interested in SCCC on GMU's Fairfax campus. I do agree that with all the time and activity it requires, its hard to run something like that and maintain a normal life :P

    But Grapeshot did make a point, run it by committee. If it was several people contributing, then it lightens the load on everyone, but it just as effective.
    Well maybe we can work on getting something started. Are you a member of the GMU SCCC Facebook group? It has 153 members. I'll see if I can get in touch with one of the admins and get them to sent out a mass e-mail to the group to see what interest there is in getting the group active again.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Haymarket/Gainesville/Arlington/GMU , Virginia, USA
    Posts
    227

    Post imported post

    I think I am... But I cant seem to remember. 153 members is pretty intense. If we could get it running again, that would be pretty nice.
    OC - Kimber Custom II - trijicon night sights, beveled mag well, and Wilson combat mags
    CC/OC Sig Sauer 229 - trijicon night sights

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    RVA, ,
    Posts
    279

    Post imported post

    vt007ken wrote:
    essayons wrote:
    vt007ken wrote:
    pourshot wrote:
    From the VCDL Places where carry is prohibited card...

    VCU - 8 VAC-90-10-50 http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...g+8VAC90-10-30

    and

    GMU - 8 VAC-35-60-20 (no on-line link found.* I think this was added as a cautionary note)

    and lastly...

    Students of almost ALL universities as they have a prohibition against it in student code.* A code you said you would follow by enrolling....
    I'm not sure what this was a reply to.

    Anyway, you need to separate the first 2 from the last one - the first two are law, the last one is policy. AG 05-078 shows that school's own policies can only affect someone's enrollment/employment with the school, nothing more.
    Virginia Administrative Code is NOT law.
    Substantiate your claim - it is enforced as law, making it illegal to carry on GMU and VCU campuses.
    We have rehashed this many times on this site, do a search for "campus carry" or "VCU carry"

    Virginia Administrative Code is not law, that is self-evident. Laws are contained in the Code of Virginia.

    You have claimed that VAC is enforced as law on GMU and VCU. Please cite an example of this. Prohibition of students or faculty do not count, they fall under the university's regulatory powers.

    I have not seen or heard of any case in which a citizen was arrested for carrying on campus.

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Bottom of Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    418

    Post imported post

    Well assuming one was a student and "bound" by the student agreement (punishable by expulsion), when does said student become a member of the public? As soon as he gets his degree? As soon as the last exam is taken? Just curious...(graduating in 12 days).

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    24

    Post imported post

    essayons wrote:
    vt007ken wrote:
    essayons wrote:
    vt007ken wrote:
    pourshot wrote:
    From the VCDL Places where carry is prohibited card...

    VCU - 8 VAC-90-10-50 http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...g+8VAC90-10-30

    and

    GMU - 8 VAC-35-60-20 (no on-line link found.* I think this was added as a cautionary note)

    and lastly...

    Students of almost ALL universities as they have a prohibition against it in student code.* A code you said you would follow by enrolling....
    I'm not sure what this was a reply to.

    Anyway, you need to separate the first 2 from the last one - the first two are law, the last one is policy. AG 05-078 shows that school's own policies can only affect someone's enrollment/employment with the school, nothing more.
    Virginia Administrative Code is NOT law.
    Substantiate your claim - it is enforced as law, making it illegal to carry on GMU and VCU campuses.
    We have rehashed this many times on this site, do a search for "campus carry" or "VCU carry"

    Virginia Administrative Code is not law, that is self-evident. Laws are contained in the Code of Virginia.

    You have claimed that VAC is enforced as law on GMU and VCU. Please cite an example of this. Prohibition of students or faculty do not count, they fall under the university's regulatory powers.

    I have not seen or heard of any case in which a citizen was arrested for carrying on campus.
    Without an arrest, I can't answer your request, so it really doesn't make any sense to ask for that. We have discussed this many times with experts in this area, including VCDL when they were here for our Defense Education Week. I'm not a lawyer, I'm arguing from the point of investigation and research.

    I'll look into the other threads; I admittedly don't get on here a lot.

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    RVA, ,
    Posts
    279

    Post imported post

    Summary of the situation at VCU here

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    Posts
    970

    Post imported post

    NightmareSHANIQUA wrote:
    I think I am... But I cant seem to remember. 153 members is pretty intense. If we could get it running again, that would be pretty nice.
    I just received this message from the admin of the GMU SCCC Facebook group. Now I'll have to get in touch with this Andrew guy.

    Travis,

    Andrew was the figurehead of the group and despite bothering GMU, the BOV (Board of Visitors) who actually run the school simply weren't budging. We took the group down to Richmond and Andrew joined up with SCCC on a national level. I entered into my Master's program and had no free time, and Seth moved north to join the Free State project.

    Unfortunately, despite a large number of individuals who claimed membership in the group, participation was extremely limited. Andrew never secured a faculty member he would permit to act as a sponsor (to the best of my knowledge) to allow GMUSCC to become recognized as an actual school group. We clearly wouldn't have that problem any longer, but I'd contact him to see if you can obtain the paperwork we drafted in the first place. The constitution and some other information should be available from him, as we did a great deal of the initial steps in forming the group.

    All I'd ask is that you take a great deal of caution when advancing. The media is not to be trusted at all; they'll take anything you do and twist it in any manner possible to promote fear in the demographic. Andrew made it difficult for them to do this, being a Marine, well-spoken and an upstanding citizen. The first helps the most, as people only hear "college" and "guns" and immediately think, "kids". Then they simply stop thinking period. Hearing that someone of military-background is attending this school makes it difficult for them to form such a conclusion so quickly, and then they begin thinking for themselves for once: something I find the public at large typically resists whenever possible.

    I'm going through a great deal of changes in my life at the moment, but I am back and forth between that area. Let me know if I can help.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    US
    Posts
    3,156

    Post imported post

    hunter45 wrote:

    I just received this message from the admin of the GMU SCCC Facebook group. Now I'll have to get in touch with this Andrew guy.
    "this Andrew guy" is a member on this forum under the username "TEX1N"

    I've met him quite a few times now at various events (gun shows, VCDL meetings, NRA functions, and a few years ago at a Gun Rights event at GMU)

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    24

    Post imported post

    nova wrote:
    hunter45 wrote:

    I just received this message from the admin of the GMU SCCC Facebook group. Now I'll have to get in touch with this Andrew guy.
    "this Andrew guy" is a member on this forum under the username "TEX1N"

    I've met him quite a few times now at various events (gun shows, VCDL meetings, NRA functions, and a few years ago at a Gun Rights event at GMU)
    You're talking about Andrew Dysart, by the way.

  25. #25
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,445

    Post imported post

    vt007ken wrote:
    Question: Does anyone have a link to this opinion or was it an informal opinion?

    --

    "According to a recent ruling from Michigan Attorney General Mike Cox and the Michigan State Police, licensed concealed carry permit holders may openly carry a firearm into a pistol exclusion zones including dormitories and classrooms."

    http://ypsinews.com/index.php/200912...uns-on-campus/

    Anyone know if this is true?

    Anyone want to petition Cuccinelli to make this true in VA?

    -----
    Ken Stanton
    VP and Founder, SCCC at VT
    Opinion No. 7097 [/b]January 11, 2002… A person licensed by this state… to carry a concealed weapon[/i]….By its express terms, section 234d prohibits certain persons from carrying a firearm in the enumerated places but explicitly exempts from its prohibition “[a] person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.” Thus, any person licensed to carry a concealed pistol, including a private investigator, is exempt from the gun-free zone restrictions imposed by section 234d of the Penal Code and may therefore possess firearms while on the types of premises listed in that statute.

    “…My office has contacted the Michigan State Police legislative liaison and has received some answers to share with you. According to the liaison, it is legal to openly carry a firearm in a "Pistol Free Zone" if you are a licensed CPL holder. I was advised that your information was correct that MCL 28.425o and MCL 750-234d permit thisactivity. I was informed that there was no other additional relevant laws regarding this matter…” Michael A Prusi, State Senator 38th District"[/b]


    “Your analysis is correct. Non-CPL pistol free zones do not apply to CPL holders. The CPL pistol free zones only apply to CPL holders carrying a concealed pistol. Therefore, a CPL holder may openly carry a pistol in Michigan's pistol free zones.” Sincerely,
    Sgt. Thomas Deasy, Michigan State Police Executive Resource Section, (517) 336-6441[/b]

    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •