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Thread: Do any LEOs open carry?

  1. #1
    Regular Member lonewolf2810's Avatar
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    Many advocate open carry because they believe criminals will not attack an openly armed person and that there are no significant safety issues involved. I, on the other hand, believe that the dangers of open carry far outweigh any benefits. So how, if at all, can we decide who is right and who is wrong? I think I know.

    If open carry is such a good idea then surely LEOs, at least those with lots of street experience, should know! Therefore lets here from current LEOs, former LEOs, and retired LEOs that may be reading this forum. Do you or would you open carry when off duty or now that you are either retired or no longer working as a LEO if you could?

    I mean while not in uniform. I think this is the right place to post this


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    I saw some stuff from the state of Michigan recently, which brings up the question: What defines OC? A marine is OCing, but has a CCW, which in Michigan requires the weapon to concealed at all time. One is open to arrest if it is not.

    There are so many different standard in this country that used be free. Right turn on red?

    OC is supposed to be legal through out the country, but so is LOC. According to the constipation.

    But, what happens? People (non felons) are continuously harassed by local LEOs in all states on a continuing basis.

    Get a life, LEOs - must everyone else can actually protect themselves, and you are not legally required to do so, else you all would have sued silly long ago.

    Face it: You are a necessary component of civilized society, but your skill set is limited to that of the common man, who can (and must) protect himself without your mostly tardy assistance upon even tardier arrival.

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    ULOC is useless in an attack situation. If you are lucky, you might get it out and fumble for a magazine or speed loader, before being stabbed or beaten to death.

    Good luck.

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    Lead Lobber wrote:
    I saw some stuff from the state of Michigan recently, which brings up the question: What defines OC? A marine is OCing, but has a CCW, which in Michigan requires the weapon to concealed at all time. One is open to arrest if it is not.
    this is not correct, please stop spreading this misinformation.

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    Well sir, this is what I found; you're welcome to publish actual statutes. Because it looks a catch 22 in Michigan. CCW? Keep it in your pants. OC? Better be unloaded. OC CCW - you tell us, please, and kindly replicate state and local laws.

    I reported what I found, so please don't ask me to not do so. I want to know.

    It seems to me Michigan has conflict regarding state and local authorities, not unlike the rest of the country. So, please do not ask me to stop questions. This is where learning begins.

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    CCW, without the worry or ridiculous regulations that could result in weapon confiscation, is the only way to go, IMHO. Confusion to the enemy! Let the thug wonder if you may pull out a .45 and put a hole in him.

    Open carry just invites robbery; several thugs jump you and steal your gun, your ammo, your wallet. Perhaps your life. Keep it loaded, keep it hidden.

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    wow, lot of antis with WRONG information in this thread.

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    LEOs OC on TV, with a badge on their belt. It's been 40 years since I was an LEO. I think OC invites criminals to mug you. So keep your pistol in your pants, boys.

    Just my view.

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    I am not your aunt. Go ahead and ULOC if you wish to; it is the right of all citizens. I am just expressing my opinion of possible consequences, based on many years of observation and experience.

    Greg

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    JDriver1.8t wrote:
    wow, lot of antis with WRONG information in this thread.
    I was directing my comments at you, sir - should have included your quote, but I can't drive my Imac yet.

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    I know LEO's in my county (maybe the whole state, I'm not sure) are REQUIRED to CC if they carry off duty. They are not authorized to OC unless in uniform.
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    I know LEO's in my county (maybe the whole state, I'm not sure) are REQUIRED to CC if they carry off duty. They are not authorized to OC unless in uniform.
    Which sucks because if not on duty you should be afforded all the same rights as everybody else.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Hokey Dokey. I am a sworn corrections officer. LEO, Deputy, Jailer or whatever I may be called. I also have a CDWL for Kentucky.

    I carry OPEN whenever I need to or can. My badge is turned inward on my belt. I carry concealed only when my shirt, jacket, coat, vest covers it. I sit to eat, I remove whatever conceals my weapon.

    I honestly advocate open carry. I am 67 years old, Marine veteran (1959/1963) and Military Police when in service.

    My 1st real open carryconflict was in 1975 with the chief policeman in a rural Ky town. I won. I carried my dad's .38 special on my paper route in 1955.

    I carry OPENwhile NOT in uniform such as we have in Ky.

    Does this cover what was asked?

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    Regular Member brokenbarrel's Avatar
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    Lead Lobber wrote:
    ULOC is useless in an attack situation. If you are lucky, you might get it out and fumble for a magazine or speed loader, before being stabbed or beaten to death.

    Good luck.
    i ULOC a few times when i lived in california a sigma 40ve empty magwell slide locked back in an alfonso leather holster (pop in mag dropslide fire) if the situation ever required it.Main thing is training on speed loading and fireing from the low ready.I used to do armed security over there and i will say many los angeles county deputies dont know certain laws regarding carry.A little off topic but i will say this c.p.c 12031(d)(5)or maybe(5)(d) i forget but one of those allows for an armed guard in uniform on his way to or from work and during work to carry fully loaded and alot of LEO's almost make the big mistake of takeing them in for carrying a loaded weapon.As a lieutenant i recieved a call one time from a very young sounding deputy that had one of my officers in custody(this idiot actually made my officer empty the weapon himself lol)i informed him of the law my officer was mad at me because he had a good false arrest and kidnapping charge.:what:

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    Lead Lobber wrote:
    Well sir, this is what I found; you're welcome to publish actual statutes. Because it looks a catch 22 in Michigan. CCW? Keep it in your pants. OC? Better be unloaded. OC CCW - you tell us, please, and kindly replicate state and local laws.

    I reported what I found, so please don't ask me to not do so. I want to know.

    It seems to me Michigan has conflict regarding state and local authorities, not unlike the rest of the country. So, please do not ask me to stop questions. This is where learning begins.

    Lead Lobber, folks here on OCDO have attempted to provide you with pertinent info (statues) to confirm lawful carry-OC and CC. You, for whatever reason, are not willing to accept what's being provided.

    Most of the laws here in Michigan pertaining to carry is fairly clear and most do not require an attorney for interpretation.

    First of all, there is NO statue in Michigan that requires CPL holders to CC-I have no idea where the hell you came up with that garbage.

    Secondly, in Michigan, we have full state preemption, specifically MCL 123.1102, which prohibits local units of government (county, township, city, village) from creating/enforcing laws (ordinances) more stringent than the States'. Any ordinance to prohibit a person to possess a handgun, for example, in a city park is illegal per Section 1102.

    Please, if you would, provide a cite to this so-called "catch 22" you speak of.

    Also, the license to carry a concealed pistol here in Michigan is called a CPL (Concealed Pistol License), not a CCW. A CCW in Michigan is what you will be convicted of if you get caught carrying a concealed pistol without a CPL-hence, Carrying Concealed Weapon.




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    Lead Lobber wrote:
    CCW, without the worry or ridiculous regulations that could result in weapon confiscation, is the only way to go, IMHO. Confusion to the enemy! Let the thug wonder if you may pull out a .45 and put a hole in him.

    Open carry just invites robbery; several thugs jump you and steal your gun, your ammo, your wallet. Perhaps your life. Keep it loaded, keep it hidden.
    Please provide any examples (cites) that back this extremely ficticious comment of yours that pertains to persons that are not LEO/Active Military who OC.

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    Lead Lobber wrote:
    LEOs OC on TV, with a badge on their belt. It's been 40 years since I was an LEO. I think OC invites criminals to mug you. So keep your pistol in your pants, boys.

    Just my view.
    Ahhh....this is all starting to make sense now...

    Christ, I should have known in the beginning... :?

  18. #18
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Lead Lobber wrote:
    I saw some stuff from the state of Michigan recently, which brings up the question: What defines OC? A marine is OCing, but has a CCW, which in Michigan requires the weapon to concealed at all time. One is open to arrest if it is not.

    Totally completely WRONG SIR! First of all in Michigan there is no law on the books that prohibits OC. Do you know what the absence of a law that prohibits means? It means that if there is no law against it..... nothing that says it is illegal... then it is legal to do it.

    In Michigan a permit to carry concealed is necessary because there are laws against carrying concealed... unless a person has the permit.

    But having the permit to carry concealed only means a person MAY (is allowed to) carry concealed... it does NOT require concealed carry.

    No law ='s legal by default... law prohibiting ='s a permit/license required to allow an otherwise illegal action.

    Got it?

    There are so many different standard in this country that used be free. Right turn on red?

    Yes.. each State has their own unique set of laws for many things. It is the way it is. But do not assume that the laws in my State, or any other State, are the same as the laws in your State.

    OC is supposed to be legal through out the country, but so is LOC. According to the constipation.

    And this simple statement by you tells me you are just another elitist leftist that doesn't like the Constitution... and all that it implies... the people's control of the government not the governments control of the people.

    You are aware that the Bill of Rights is NOT a list of things the government allows the people to do... but is a list of things the people have told the government they will NOT allow the government to do? Once you understand that concept you will understand that the lack of a law that prohibits an activity means that activity is... by default... legal to do... hence no law against Carrying a loaded pistol in plain sight in Michigan... means it is legal to openly carry a loaded pistol in Michigan..... regardless of your misunderstanding of the law/lack of a law in a State other than your own.

    But, what happens? People (non felons) are continuously harassed by local LEOs in all states on a continuing basis.

    Get a life, LEOs - must everyone else can actually protect themselves, and you are not legally required to do so, else you all would have sued silly long ago.

    Face it: You are a necessary component of civilized society, but your skill set is limited to that of the common man, who can (and must) protect himself without your mostly tardy assistance upon even tardier arrival.

    By the way... I've been reading your posts throughout this forum and they all have an undertone of anti OC.

    I personally am encouraged by the influx of new members spouting anti OC misinformation, opinions, and false data because it means the OC movement of quietly living up for the rights of the common people in the CONSTITUTION AND BILL OF RIGHTS is working.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Lead Lobber wrote:
    CCW, without the worry or ridiculous regulations that could result in weapon confiscation, is the only way to go, IMHO. Confusion to the enemy! Let the thug wonder if you may pull out a .45 and put a hole in him.

    You are entitled to your opinion however please consider the following:

    When a person is carrying concealed they look just like every other potential victim to thugs.

    But when a thug is looking for a victim and sees a person that looks tempting... until the thug sees that person is carrying a gun on their hip. Thug now knows his intended victim most certainly, without a doubt, has the means to resist being a victim. Thug either decides to find a different victim or attacks anyway. Now... please cite any, and I mean any documented incidence where a citizen openly carrying has been attacked or had their gun grabbed. That really is a challenge for you Sir: either support your claim with fact or let that myth go.. because it is a myth put forth by anti OC folks hoping to scare people into not OC'ing.

    Open carry just invites robbery; several thugs jump you and steal your gun, your ammo, your wallet. Perhaps your life. Keep it loaded, keep it hidden.

    Again, please provide a documented incident where a citizen open carrying has been jumped by several thugs and had their gun, ammo, wallet and possibly their life stolen by thugs. Show FACTS!... not scare tactics.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Statesman's Avatar
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    Lead Lobber wrote:
    LEOs OC on TV, with a badge on their belt. It's been 40 years since I was an LEO. I think OC invites criminals to mug you. So keep your pistol in your pants, boys.

    Just my view.
    Only the ones who are not afraid of getting shot. Every open carrier should practice retention techniques, preferably by learning Krav Maga.

  21. #21
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    Lead Lobber wrote:
    I saw some stuff from the state of Michigan recently, which brings up the question: What defines OC? A marine is OCing, but has a CCW, which in Michigan requires the weapon to concealed at all time. One is open to arrest if it is not.
    You have not cited one law that states you have to CC if you have a CPL in Michigan. Why, because there is no law that states you have to CC if you have a CPL in Michigan. Any person that can lawful possess a handgun in Michigancan OC with or without a CPL.

    It is also legal to OC with a loaded weapon in Michigan, unlike your state of California.

    Lets move on and I agree you are spreading misinformation in this regard.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  22. #22
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Lead Lobber wrote:
    LEOs OC on TV, with a badge on their belt. It's been 40 years since I was an LEO. I think OC invites criminals to mug you. So keep your pistol in your pants, boys.

    Just my view.
    MANY of us have been OCing in Virginia for a LONG time. NO ONE has mugged YET!

    Please CITE evidence supportiing your silly@$$ theory...

    Quite the contrary. Most criminals or scumbags that appear to be criminals (I didn't see them commit any crimes, but they just look like they may be up to "No good") DISAPPEAR quickly when they see an OCer. THIS has happened MANY times and has been DOCUMENTED. Just read posts from the states. We have a few of them in Virginia.

    We have found in Virginia that OCing usually improves the manners of everyone around us. You would be amazed at how polite people become when they jump to certain conclusions in their minds... If anyone ever asks, we ALWAYS inform them about OC and the legality of it in our state.

    We really enjoy educating the public. Its just an amusing bonus when you see a "young upstanding citizen" with his pants around his knees and his underwear showing nearly fall down while he makes a hasty departure from the area.
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  23. #23
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Just so we are all clear. User LEAD LOBBER has been banned and will not be posting any responses, let alone citations to law.

    Based on reading his posts, I suspect that IF he was in law enforcement it was very likely with the KGB rather than any US organization. So it stands to reason that his grasp of US laws might be weak.

    Regards
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    MANY of us have been OCing in Virginia for a LONG time. NO ONE has mugged YET!
    I don't have time to look it up right now, but I have seen a story which I believe was from Virginia about a youngman open carrying at about 4 am getting mugged and having his gun stolen.

    It hasn't happened often to non uniformed people, but then againplain clothes OCers arevastly outnumbered by uniformed OCers. It can happen, and it will probably happen more often as OCing grows and grows. But anyone can get attacked at any time, and I don't think it means much as it relates to OC.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Yes, I OC when off duty. Without displaying a badge.

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