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Thread: Nature Preserve Carry

  1. #1
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    According to 400 KAR 2:090 it is illegal to carry a weapon in KY Nature Preserves. I have contacted:
    -The director of the KY NP Commission
    -Various members of the Legislative Research Commission
    -My personal legislators

    Most of been seemingly supportive about changing this law. I've been skeptical, however, because well, they're politicians.

    I wrote Don Dott (KYSNPC) again about the issue because it's been 4 months since our last correspondence. Here's what he wrote back:

    "Yes, I had a meeting this week with Energy and Environment Cabinet legal counsel and we have spoken with Legislative Research Commission staff about the firearms issue. LRC has offered to draft a revision of the regulation in question for us to review. I am waiting for that and then we will be able to proceed. Considering the holidays and a pending session of the General Assembly, I don’t know how long this will take. it is normally a lengthy process (months) even without those factors, but the regulation process provides for public comment which will give you an opportunity to review the revisions and provide your comments. There is not actually a Kentucky Administrative Regulation board, it is handled by LRC staff. I can advise you when the draft regulation is ready for public release."

    VERY promising words. I'll let you all know what I know when I hear it.

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    Thanks for the kind words, gutshot. It is rather unfortunate that more effort is needed in overturning laws than to instate them in the first place.

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    Just as our right to carry firearms on certain public lands was taken from us - without our knowledge or permission - certain access rights have been taken too. If all who wish to regain their rights joined together, our chances of regaining these rights would be greatly increased. Here are links to some already involved in this fight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2azCZMo9Jhw and http://www.saveourcave.org

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    Update

    I emailed the director of KSNPC once again to see where things lie at the moment. Here is his response:

    "We are starting the regulation revision process. I have assigned it to a staff person who unfortunately is not familiar with the process (no one on staff is as we rarely revise our regs) who will attend LRC training on reg revision next week, and the legal office will assign someone to assist as well. I believe the process itself takes 3-6 months, depending on public comment (or lack of) and legislative committee oversight."

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    Regular Member hotrod's Avatar
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    As I have said before, not sure if I have the cajones to test the KAR, but, I don't know that they could win if taken to court. KRS makes it plain as to who can and can not regulate weapons and that is left to the discretion of the KRS. That is just addressing concealed carry, open carry is a different matter. I don't think that they could win on the constitutionality of the Commonwealth Constitution. By the way, good work on getting the changes started. Nice job.!!!
    Last edited by hotrod; 08-17-2010 at 05:36 PM.
    Speed is fine
    Accuracy is final

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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    AMAZING! Kudos, Gutshot! This is great to hear!
    Got SIG? MOLON LABE

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    Excellent! Feels great! I agree on our next goal. What umbrella does the fair fall under?

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    Regular Member mark1123's Avatar
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    Old Info??

    I was researching the open/concealed carry of a firearm in Ky State parks, Nature preserves, etc. I came across this site http://parks.ky.gov/NR/rdonlyres/498.../0/NB_Laws.pdf). As you can see, it says, "Possession of firearms is illegal on dedicated State Nature Preserves".
    Based on this thread, I thought that this had been changed for the good. Am I missing something?
    Last edited by mark1123; 06-01-2011 at 02:05 PM.

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    I suppose they haven't updated it yet. The regulation may be found here:
    http://www.lrc.ky.gov/kar/400/002/090reg.htm

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    Apparently, we are not out of the woods yet. This change to the KAR has not been updated. I've spoken with the LRC and they said that it still needs to go through two more committee hearings. The expected effective date is early December thru January. We need to keep them accountable.

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    Update

    I received this email today from Dave at LRC. It seems promising:

    "The wheels of bureaucracy are spinning at maximum speed. Which for the government is not that fast.

    The regulation cleared our committee at our November 7 meeting. There were no problems.

    On December 7 it will be referred by the LRC to the Committee on Natural Resources and the Environment. If they meet in Dec. and the regulation is on their agenda, it will go into effect that day. If they do not meet, or it does not go on their agenda it will go into effect January 6, 2012.

    For the government, that’s pretty fast. Thanks for your interest and assistance in getting this done."

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    It's a couple days early, but Happy 2nd Birthday to this thread! (I'm not trying to demean anybody who's put work into making things better, just sarcastically noting how difficult "our" government can be at times.)
    Last edited by Brian D.; 12-02-2011 at 11:27 AM.

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    Awesome news! Thanks for all of your alls hard work.

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    So great to see the fruits of our labor!

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    That is excellent news, well done!

    Has anyone been in contact with the state fairgrounds yet? Or anyone else that could get something done about this illegal ban?

  16. #16
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    400 KAR 2:090 Regulating behavior in the KY Nature Preserves has been changed to allow the carrying of deadly weapons. Here is the change. The old wording is written in blue after the new language in red and underlined.


    ENERGY AND ENVIRONMENT CABINET

    Office of the Secretary

    Kentucky State Nature Preserves Commission

    (Amendment)
    ...
    Section 15. Character of Visitor Activity. (1) Visitor activity shall be regulated to prevent disturbance of a nature preserve beyond what it can tolerate without permanent deterioration. Visitors without permits for research or educational activities shall be restricted to trails and areas open to off-trail use and may be otherwise restricted in movement. Persons wishing to traverse a nature preserve elsewhere than on trails or other areas open to visitation shall obtain permission from the commission.

    (2) Public use shall be in accordance with the articles of dedication of the preserve, and such rules as may be approved by the commission for a nature preserve.

    (3) Hunting, fishing, and trapping shall not be allowed unless provided for in the articles of dedication for the nature preserve and shall be subject to restrictions approved by the commission. Additional rules, administrative regulations, or restrictions may be adopted by the commission on a preserve basis to ensure that the preserve is protected adequately from an inappropriate overbalance of game species or impending disease problems of game or nongame species.

    (4) Visitors shall not bring pets into a nature preserve, except as allowed pursuant to permission to hunt in a nature preserve.

    (5) A visitor carrying a deadly weapon on a nature preserve shall not discharge the weapon unless it is necessary for either self-defense or hunting if the visitor has previously obtained permission from the Commission to hunt on the [Deadly weapons shall not be carried by visitors to a nature preserve except as allowed pursuant to permission to hunt in a] nature preserve....

    This change came as a result of 14 months of work by several members of this board. To my knowledge we were the only ones working on this and demanding that this state agency obey the law. The members of this board caused this change in Ky. law. It will be there for years to come.

    The full regulation can be seen at: http://www.lrc.ky.gov/kar/400/002/090reg.htm

    We now need to start on 303 KAR 1.041, the reg. that says you can be denied entry into a building on Ky. State Fairgrounds property if you are carrying a gun.
    The part in red is OK, the part in Blue is not. What you ended up with was the right to carry IF you have permission to hunt, NOT the right to carry for self defence/ If the part in blue is gone completely (doesn't appear to be) you didn'ty help yourselfs much.

    First, the only thing in a wildlife refuge about guns should only address hunting, not SD. Carrying for SD is covered by state law, not some administrative rule. Kentucky has good SD law, what is some small governmental entity adding their own thing for in teh first place?

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