Glock 19 wrote:We are either free or we are not.
Posted: Thu Dec 3rd, 2009 09:42 pm
First let me say I OC to educate not intimidate. Some will say I handled it all wrong but I was happy about the way the whole incident went in general. My wife & I were in theKmart inMadison.Wehad been there a good 45 minutes when I went to theMens room.When I came out there was a man about 35 & his sonabout 8 or10 with him. I smiled & said hello. I noticed the little boy's eyes get really big & before I could get 4 feet away he said " Daddy that man's got a gun ". Well you guessed it . I was in the back about 10 minutes later sitting down getting ready to try on some shoes. When I looked up & here comes 2 LEOs. I stopped what I was doing & put both hands on my left knee. They walked up withone in the front & one behind & to the side about 4 feet. LEO: Sir do you have a handgun? (duh) Me: Yes sir right on my hip in this holster. LEO: Do you have a CC permit ? Yes sir it's in my wallet, however as you may know I don't need one to OC. LEO: I'm going to take your gun & hold on to it to make us feel safer. Me: Sure go right ahead.( Now I have not moved this whole time.) Then I said is it alright if I take out my wallet? Leo: Yes I'll need to see your permit & license. By then he had handed my gun to the other LEO. They called it in &confirmed I was me & my permit was real. I explained that I was just trying to raise awareness about OC & I'd be glad to cover it up & even leave if that's what the manager wants. Then he explained that it makes some people nervous seeing someone carrying a gun around. To which I replied that I understood & even expected that to a certain extent which is exactly why I OC & I alsotold him no one had saidanything to me aboutit.( Just goes to show how chicken s%#@t the general population is ) He then gave me my firearm back. ( I never touched it, I told him to place it back in the holster & snap the strap back. Which he did ) I then told him that if the management had a problem I would leave. He said I'm sure it's fine we're going to talk to them now just go back to what you were doing. then they apologised & left. Later on our way out (with a $148 worth of merchandise) I went to the service desk to speak to the manager. I introduced myself & shook her hand. I said I was sorry if there had been a problem, but that I was within my rights to OC a firearm & that I often did so . I also stated that if there was a problem with this I would go elsewhere to shop. To which she replied that she was also sorry &that the LEOs had explained everything to her & that I was welcome back at any time. Sorry this post is so long but I thought that some of the details were important.
The above was post by and oc'er from North carolina
The below statement was a reply by a fellow NC oc'er
Rex, personally, I think you handled the situation just fine. It's easy to look back at a situation and figure how you could have responded to refuse giving up any of your 2A, 4A, and 5A rights, but the bottom line is that you were successful in educating the store manager about the right to OC, and the manager is fine with you coming back to the store in the future. This means anyone else who OC's in the store from now on probably won't be hassled. You've made things easier on all of us. Anyone on this board may have handled the situation differently, but you handled it the way you felt most comfortable with and the outcome was positive. I congratulate you on that!
Everyone has to make their own decisions about the extent they want to assert their rights when OC'ing, but in my opinion it's better to leave a store manager with a positive impression of OC'ers then get them ticked off by (justifiably) asserting every last right we have on the books and eliminating that store from the list of places where we can OC without being kicked out.
One of my favorite movies is "A Man For All Seasons" and I think this quote is appropriate given the situation:
Sure, call me a pragmatist, but the more I OC, the more I realize that being a hard-a$$ about asserting my rights just isn't appropriate in every situation. It's appropriate in some situations, granted, but when and where to assert our rights is an individual decision and often can't be decided until we're in the situation itself. That's my $0.02 worth.God made the angels to show Him splendor, as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But Man He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of his mind. If He suffers us to come to such a case that there is no escaping, then we may stand to our tackle as best we can, and, yes, then we can clamor like champions, if we have the spittle for it. But it's God's part, not our own, to bring ourselves to such a pass. Our natural business lies in escaping.
Why am i posting this you wonder...Well i felt it was a really good way on handling an encounter, wheather you feel its right or wrong and I am sure there will be a least one that will not agree with it, you still have to step back and look out side the box.
The original posting is under North Carolina"first encounter with LEO,there is a couple of more positive replys to this posting and some negitive replys, but you have to agree that the positive postings out weigh the negitive ones.