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Thread: Newbie OC questions

  1. #1
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    Been reading all the posts for awhile now and I would like someone to explain for me. The following questions are asked assuming the armed citizen is simply going about his business in a legal and normal manner OC'ing, in North Carolina.

    TERRY STOP? What is it? I think it means a cop cannot just stop and question you for no reason or just because you are OC'ing?

    ID? I understand that if a cop asks for your DL or ID that you do not have to give it?

    TALKING? I understand if a cop starts questioning you why you "have a gun", "where are you going", "where are you coming from", etc. that you do not have to provide that information (right to remain silent)?

    DISARM? The verdict seems split on whether a cop can disarm you just for the sake of checking you out?

    Again, I these questions are proposed assuming that the carrier isn't otherwise doing anything suspicious or illegal, just walking down the sidewalk minding his own business.

    THANKS.

  2. #2
    Regular Member UtahJarhead's Avatar
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    Rugerp345 wrote:
    Been reading all the posts for awhile now and I would like someone to explain for me. The following questions are asked assuming the armed citizen is simply going about his business in a legal and normal manner OC'ing, in North Carolina.

    TERRY STOP? What is it? I think it means a cop cannot just stop and question you for no reason or just because you are OC'ing?

    ID? I understand that if a cop asks for your DL or ID that you do not have to give it?

    TALKING? I understand if a cop starts questioning you why you "have a gun", "where are you going", "where are you coming from", etc. that you do not have to provide that information (right to remain silent)?

    DISARM? The verdict seems split on whether a cop can disarm you just for the sake of checking you out?

    Again, I these questions are proposed assuming that the carrier isn't otherwise doing anything suspicious or illegal, just walking down the sidewalk minding his own business.

    THANKS.
    Some of these questions are for the North Carolina forum, but I'll answer where applicable.

    The authority to briefly detain a person upon reasonable suspicion less than probable cause has become known as a Terry stop.

    Do you have to ID? That's a question for the NC forum.

    If a cop is talking to you, you do NOT have to talk back to him. You should always assume that whatever you tell him very likely WILL be used against you, just as your Miranda rights state.

    As for disarming you, if a cop is standing near you and tells you he is going to disarm you, LET HIM! Do not fight or resist. You let him disarm you, but feel free to ask him questions like "Why am I being disarmed? Am I being arrested? Am I free to go?" Again, DO NOT RESIST! If you are indeed breaking no laws, then the officer is very possibly violating your civil rights and will fall on his own sword. That being said, just because he is disarming you does not mean he is breaking the law. That varies state to state, so again, ask in the NC forum.

    By the way, welcome to OCDO!

  3. #3
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    Rugerp345,

    Terry Stop means that an officer stops you for questioning. In doing so, there should be RAS (Reasonable Suspicion that the officer can Articulate). As for firearms, it has also been decided that there is no preemption to needing RAS. In other words, just being armed is not, in and of itself, a reason to stop someone.

    As for ID: in most cases, there is no requirement to carry an ID in the USA. Two obvious exceptions would be for driving and carrying concealed (in most states and definitely in NC). So, technically unless you are driving a vehicle or carrying concealed, you have no legal mandate to carry or show an ID.

    As for being disarmed: if you are minding you own business and have given no RAS or PC to be detained, there is no reason to be disarmed.

    Those are the simple "the way it should be" answers but:

    Now the most important part Do not try to stop the police from disarming you!!!!

    When speaking to the police, never give consent to being disarmed or showing ID. Not giving consent does not equal resisting and protects your rights if they choose to go ahead and violate them.

    For example, "I do not consent to being disarmed but will not resist if you insist on doing so."

    Why do you have a gun? - Choose something short and not smart alick. I would simply say for personal protection in accordance with NC state laws. Others will probably tell you not to say anything at all.

    As to where are you going and where ya coming from? - My choice, answer with a question such as "Am I being detained" or "Sir, please explain how that is relevant". It is no-one's business where I am going or coming from except mine (and maybe my wife's )

    Bottom line when dealing with the police, never give consent but never resist. That leaves you in proper position to follow up with formal complaints afterwards and the courts can then straighten it out.

    The topic of what to say to the police is much discussed on here as well. I am of the opinion that not saying anything at all except "am I being detained" over and over will get you no where fast. At the same time, you have to be extremely careful what you do say and having a good attitude goes a long way. Of course, it also depends on the attitude of the officer. Is he investigating a report of MWG because he has to or is he of the God mentality and thinks he is the only one that should be carrying. Every situation is going to be different.

    Please be sure to check out the following post in the NC forum:

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum41/34858.html

    It was actually started by a newbie that had a LEO encounter. A couple of the "old hats" have already chimed in (Citizen, ChiefJason, Grapeshot) with some great information and discussion.

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