"Carry Cards" ready to distribute

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I understand that you want to CC in Mi but you can OC. You don't need a CCP in Mi to OC. Do you OC in Wi or only carry at all in the states that you can CC in.

It takes time for each state to reciprocate CCP depending on the wording of the law. It wasn't until just about a month or two that I could CC in Nebraska. With my Ar CCP. I can carry in 31 states. (I am still waiting to receive the permit in the mail so I don't have it as of yet but will soon.)

BTW: what do I need to do to get a FL or Mn nonresident CCP?

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Packer fan wrote:

I understand that you want to CC in Mi but you can OC. You don't need a CCP in Mi to OC. Do you OC in Wi or only carry at all in the states that you can CC in.
<snip>

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Incorrect!
It is unlawful for aWI resident is to carry, Transport, Or Possess a handgun in MI (Please see the MI section for exact wording of the statute, it is a current discussion)
due to their unique requirement that a non-resident of MI must be licensed or have apermit od some sort in MI, Since WI does not require anylicensing, registration, or permitting to own firearms, we do not qualify.

The real sick part of that law? an IL resident can legally O-C in MI due to their FOID card scheme, but a WI resident with more intact liberties cannot. The same goes for a VT resident since the do not issue any permits.
I beleieve the law is directed at C-C, but the way it is worded is all inclusive.

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Packer fan wrote:

I understand that you want to CC in Mi but you can OC. You don't need a CCP in Mi to OC. Do you OC in Wi or only carry at all in the states that you can CC in.

It takes time for each state to reciprocate CCP depending on the wording of the law. It wasn't until just about a month or two that I could CC in Nebraska. With my Ar CCP. I can carry in 31 states. (I am still waiting to receive the permit in the mail so I don't have it as of yet but will soon.)

BTW: what do I need to do to get a FL or Mn nonresident CCP?

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To get a FL permit, you can apply by mail, but you must get an application from FL... you can request one on-line. FL requires a passport type photo and a fingerprint card (they'll send the fp cards in the application, and you must get them done at any LEO agency). You also need proof of firearm "safety" training. Any CC class will suffice, as well as a hunter safety class or military service. Cost is about $115, and it's good for 7 years. How long it takes to get it back depends on the backlog at the time you apply. My original application in 2003 took about 40 days. Back in 03, it was a 5yr permit... it has since been extended to 7yrs. My renewal in '08 only took about 20 days.

MN requires you to attend their specific MN carry class, within the year preceding your application. No photo is required (but you must carry an "official" govt issued photo ID, like a DL, with your MN permit for it to be valid). No fingerprints required neither, but you must apply in person at any MNsheriff dept. If you reside in MN, you must apply at the county you reside in. Non-residents of MN can apply in any county. You'll need a valid DL and a copy of your training certificate, and $100 cash. It's goodfor 5 years. I had mine in my hands in less than 2 weeks after applying. That was in 2006, and I applied in a rural county.

For New Hampshire, it's by mail, and you must send proof of having any other CC permit.Cost was only $10.

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Nutczak wrote:

Packer fan wrote:

I understand that you want to CC in Mi but you can OC. You don't need a CCP in Mi to OC. Do you OC in Wi or only carry at all in the states that you can CC in.
<snip>

Click to expand...

Incorrect!
It is unlawful for aWI resident is to carry, Transport, Or Possess a handgun in MI (Please see the MI section for exact wording of the statute, it is a current discussion)
due to their unique requirement that a non-resident of MI must be licensed or have apermit od some sort in MI, Since WI does not require anylicensing, registration, or permitting to own firearms, we do not qualify.

The real sick part of that law? an IL resident can legally O-C in MI due to their FOID card scheme, but a WI resident with more intact liberties cannot. The same goes for a VT resident since the do not issue any permits.
I beleieve the law is directed at C-C, but the way it is worded is all inclusive.

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I haven't checked out that MI discussion yet, but my understanding of MI law is that to possess a handgun in MI, the handgun (not the owner) must be "registered" with the safety inspection certificate. Even a MI resident could not OC any handgun that was not registered. Exceptions were made for non-residents who had valid CC permit from their home state. As only MI residents can get the safety inspection/registration on a handgun, and WI residents can't get a resident CC permit, any "unregistered" handgun possessed by a WI resident in MI was deemed an "illegal" handgun. But MI has recently repealed that gun registration/safety inspectionlaw, so I don't know what the situation is now. If there's a differant MI statute prohibiting handgun possession, it probably won't be valid if the Heller decision becomes "incorporated" to all the States in the current McDonald vs Chicago case before SCOTUS.

There's also the currentfederal law protecting traveling through a jurisdiction that outlaws a type of firearm. If the firearm is legal where you live, and it's unloaded and in a case, you cannot be prosecuted under local firearms laws while traveling through a state that bans that firearm. This obviously does NOT include open carrying of that firearm, as your federal protection ceases if you remove that firearm from it's case or the cased firearm from the vehicle. The intent is protection to interstate travelers unaware of any local firearm laws.

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I will be perfectly content if a no compromise ocw/ccw non permitted system is passed, including a permit for reciprocity even if the reciprocity permit has a training requirement.

Other than that I could care less if a ccw bill ever gets passed and will work against any bill that compromises OCW period.

We need to focus on changing the current laws first. Our biggest help will come from the USSC soon when they decide the McDonald case.

IMHO, if you are that worried, scared, or embarrassed to carry a fire arm openly. Then maybe you shouldn't carry one at all.

There is absolutely no significant difference between OCW and CCW that would warrant any form of mandated training.

There is only one significant difference between OCW and CCW at all really. That difference is the FACT that OCW deters more crime then CCW.

Even if a CCW bill is passed who is to say that the idiots in Madison will not insist that the transportation laws and the GFSZ laws will still be enforceable under the CCW bill? Come on folks, remember who we are talking about here. You could potentially go through all of the CCW requirements and still have to unload and encase in order to transport and you may still not be able to carry (unless unloaded and encased) in a GFSZ.

So you tell me which one has more benefit. I will take OCW anytime. If people don't like seeing my fire arm they can turn their head and look the other way, that is why God gave us the ability to look from side to side. He had us OCers in mind. I guess that means God is pro gun and pro OC.

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J.Gleason wrote:

I will be perfectly content if a no compromise ocw/ccw non permitted system is passed, including a permit for reciprocity even if the reciprocity permit has a training requirement.

Other than that I could care less if a ccw bill ever gets passed and will work against any bill that compromises OCW period.

We need to focus on changing the current laws first. Our biggest help will come from the USSC soon when they decide the McDonald case.

IMHO, if you are that worried, scared, or embarrassed to carry a fire arm openly. Then maybe you shouldn't carry one at all.

There is absolutely no significant difference between OCW and CCW that would warrant any form of mandated training.

There is only one significant difference between OCW and CCW at all really. That difference is the FACT that OCW deters more crime then CCW.

Even if a CCW bill is passed who is to say that the idiots in Madison will not insist that the transportation laws and the GFSZ laws will still be enforceable under the CCW bill? Come on folks, remember who we are talking about here. You could potentially go through all of the CCW requirements and still have to unload and encase in order to transport and you may still not be able to carry (unless unloaded and encased) in a GFSZ.

So you tell me which one has more benefit. I will take OCW anytime. If people don't like seeing my fire arm they can turn their head and look the other way, that is why God gave us the ability to look from side to side. He had us OCers in mind. I guess that means God is pro gun and pro OC.

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In the previous 3 attempts at a CCW law in WI, both the vehicle transportation law and the GFSZ law did not apply to CC permit holders, and I see no way any future CC law would get passed that would be any differant. Also, all 3 previous bills had zero effect on OC.

Ridding ourselves of the vehicle transportation law I see as a possibilty... not likely, but possible. OTOH, repeal of the GFSZ, I see as a huge hill to climb due to the anti-gun media's power to twist the truth. I can see the headlines already "Lawmakers propose carrying guns at schools to be legal". Not the truth, we both know that, but that's how they'll spin it, and you'll never overcome that. They've already done so, when the last PPA would've exempted CC permitees. The PPA just might've passed if the authors deleted that part, but they stood firm.

As for myself personally practicing OC, it's not a matter of "embarrassment". OC while shopping at Walmart is no problem for me. OC walking down the road isn't either. I've done those. But, OTOH, doing so while working is a major problem. Without getting too specific, I'm in a security related field, and self employed. A good portion of that work is in areas that would cause a big negative reaction from customers. If I CCed rather than OC, they'd be none the wiser. Sure, I could take a stand on principles, but I can't afford the loss of customers and income that'd be the ultimate result.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for OC... but I'm just as much, if not more, in favor of CC. It just fits my employment better. If getting a permit to do so, and jumping all the hurdles that may go with it,is the only way I can CC in WI, than so be it. I've already detailed my preferance... Alaska type carry. Followed by VT type, and then permitted CC, like most other shall-issue states. Anything's better than the current.

And lastly, I will also fight along side you against any proposed change that interferes with permitless OC in WI. But I will stand behind any change that allowsCC without effecting OC, whether it be VT, AK, or CC by permit only (as long as that permit is the "shall-issue" type... I will vehemently oppose any "may-issue" scheme devised to circumvent constitutional issues).

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Safcrkr,
Your ideals and logic are a definite asset to our movement, I hope to see more postings from you.

I really wish we had a larger following on OCDO in Vilas County. I believe there are only3 of us located north of Green Bay on the east side of Hwy 51/39.

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Nutczak wrote:

Packer fan wrote:

I understand that you want to CC in Mi but you can OC. You don't need a CCP in Mi to OC. Do you OC in Wi or only carry at all in the states that you can CC in.
<snip>

Click to expand...

Incorrect!
It is unlawful for a WI resident is to carry, Transport, Or Possess a handgun in MI (Please see the MI section for exact wording of the statute, it is a current discussion)
due to their unique requirement that a non-resident of MI must be licensed or have a permit od some sort in MI, Since WI does not require any licensing, registration, or permitting to own firearms, we do not qualify.

The real sick part of that law? an IL resident can legally O-C in MI due to their FOID card scheme, but a WI resident with more intact liberties cannot. The same goes for a VT resident since the do not issue any permits.
I beleieve the law is directed at C-C, but the way it is worded is all inclusive.

Click to expand...

You are right I am wrong. Misunderstood the law.:banghead:

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Nutczak wrote:

Safcrkr,
Your ideals and logic are a definite asset to our movement, I hope to see more postings from you.

I really wish we had a larger following on OCDO in Vilas County. I believe there are only3 of us located north of Green Bay on the east side of Hwy 51/39.

Click to expand...

Just wondering... did you see me on channel 12 news, back when the 2nd PPA passed in '03, and was awaiting Gov Doyle's signature or veto? They had me on their news story about CCW. I wastalking in favor of CC, and theOneida Cty sheriff at the time (Tim -I forgot his last name... nice guy, who recently passed away) was speaking against CCW? I was somewhat of a local "celebrity" here for awhile. What pissed me off though, was I gave them an hour of "testimony" on camera, and they only showed a few seconds (of their choosing), and left out some of my best facts & figures. I wanted to do it face to face, but they did seperate interviews, one pro & one con. I would've kicked his butt in a face to face debate.

I've been at this a long time. Back in '03, our then state Senator Roger Breske was against the PPA, at first. I had been down to Madison for the PPA open hearings, and while there, I picked up some petition forms in favor of the PPA. I brought them back up north, made copies, and went to work. Within a week, I had 700+ signatures. The gun shop over there by you had some too. Don't remember how many they got, but it was close to my 700.We sent them to Breske (I delivered mine in person, and had a little "talk" with him too). Within 2 weeks, he changed his tune, and became the ONLY Dem in the state Senate to sign on as a co-sponsor of the PPA. There's more of us pro-carry people in Vilas than you realize. It's just that after the two failed veto overrides, and the last election (losing Dave Zien was a BIG loss for CC in WI) there hasn't been much to do. :X Both of our current legislators - Dan Meyer/ Assembly, Jim Holperin/Senate - are friends of mine. Both are strongly behind CC (or I'll kick their butts ).Just kidding about the butt kicking... I've discussed CC with both, and they'rein favor.

And speaking of veto overrides... Gary Sherman, the co-sponsor who turned tail and was the reason we lost the override, just got his "pay-off" from Doyle. Last week, Doyle appointed him to a judge position on a state appeals court. We all knew he would get something for his flip-flop.

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safcrkr wrote:

Nutczak wrote:

Safcrkr,
Your ideals and logic are a definite asset to our movement, I hope to see more postings from you.

I really wish we had a larger following on OCDO in Vilas County. I believe there are only3 of us located north of Green Bay on the east side of Hwy 51/39.

Click to expand...

Just wondering... did you see me on channel 12 news, back when the 2nd PPA passed in '03, and was awaiting Gov Doyle's signature or veto? They had me on their news story about CCW. I wastalking in favor of CC, and theOneida Cty sheriff at the time (Tim -I forgot his last name... nice guy, who recently passed away) was speaking against CCW? I was somewhat of a local "celebrity" here for awhile. What pissed me off though, was I gave them an hour of "testimony" on camera, and they only showed a few seconds (of their choosing), and left out some of my best facts & figures. I wanted to do it face to face, but they did seperate interviews, one pro & one con. I would've kicked his butt in a face to face debate.

I've been at this a long time. Back in '03, our then state Senator Roger Breske was against the PPA, at first. I had been down to Madison for the PPA open hearings, and while there, I picked up some petition forms in favor of the PPA. I brought them back up north, made copies, and went to work. Within a week, I had 700+ signatures. The gun shop over there by you had some too. Don't remember how many they got, but it was close to my 700.We sent them to Breske (I delivered mine in person, and had a little "talk" with him too). Within 2 weeks, he changed his tune, and became the ONLY Dem in the state Senate to sign on as a co-sponsor of the PPA. There's more of us pro-carry people in Vilas than you realize. It's just that after the two failed veto overrides, and the last election (losing Dave Zien was a BIG loss for CC in WI) there hasn't been much to do. :X Both of our current legislators - Dan Meyer/ Assembly, Jim Holperin/Senate - are friends of mine. Both are strongly behind CC (or I'll kick their butts ).Just kidding about the butt kicking... I've discussed CC with both, and they'rein favor.

And speaking of veto overrides... Gary Sherman, the co-sponsor who turned tail and was the reason we lost the override, just got his "pay-off" from Doyle. Last week, Doyle appointed him to a judge position on a state appeals court. We all knew he would get something for his flip-flop.

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I was too disgusted on the outcome of the bill and the actions of theturncoat to watch the news about the failed PPA bill.

The problem we seem to have in Vilas Countyis getting people out to vote, or get involved in any way. Sure, they'll sign a petition. But I have not seen too much out of thembesides that.
I tried to host an O-C picnic in Torpy Park this summer,I hadthe full blessing of the Minocqua town board. But after the AG's opinion was published, allinterest fell off real quick. Everyone seemed to be satisfied and they "Did not see a need for a gathering" after the lakelend times printed the article.
It was like they got tossed a nice meaty bone and they were content. I figured the AG's opinion would rally the people even more, But I was proven wrong.

I am still wanting to host a large O-C gathering up here, I could really use some help to get it organized and get a list togetherof people that could commit to attending the event. (I know an excellent caterer that isa hugeO-C/C-C advocate)
I even have a concealable, multi-camera surveliencesystem avaialable to mewith off-site media storage in case there was any protests or illegal actions on behalf of law enforcementthat were totake place at the event. (for our own protection)

What we have going on up here, is that we are so far from any major population centerthat politicans ignore us (Doyle has a cabin in Hazelhurst, that is the only reason he comes up here) and we have had a huge influx of people from the southof us that brought their liberal anti personal-responsibilty attitudes with them.

To see what I mean,I attached one of theanti-hunting letters printed in the lakeland times.These arethe same people running for local offices, they are trying to turn the northwoods into something resembling Schaumburg and Barrington.

I cut & pasted this from the timesfor everyones enjoyment

Not pleased with the tactics
[font="TIMES, SERIF"]To the Editor:
I live in Illinois, (gee, what a surprise) so I am certain my comments will not sit well with hunters in Wisconsin. In my opinion, hunting bear in the state of Wisconsin is barbaric.
The definition of hunting is pursuing, in this case an animal.
Tempting bears with donuts and sweets (baiting) up to three months prior to the season is disgusting.
Is this pursuing? Or having not one but two teams of dogs chasing the bear?
Is this a competitive sport? Not for the bear! What chance does the poor bear have?
Absolutely none!

If you are going to hunt bear, at least make it challenging and give bears a fighting chance. Also, about deer thinning out in the Northwoods ... maybe it's because you are now allowing youngsters to hunt.

Ten-year-olds? Really?

Linda Bessell

Orland Park, Ill.

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[/font][font="TIMES, SERIF"]

[/font]When was the last time you bought ammunition from a wal-mart?? I bought a brick of .22LR a few days ago, and the clerk askedif he could seemy FOID card!!! WTF??

No offense is meant to the IL residents that partake in this forum, and are for protecting our rights.
It is just that the quoted opinion is what we usually see from your fellow statesmen.

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By the way that $10. NH permit is now $100.00! Still $10 for residents.

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Packer fan wrote:

Nutczak wrote:

Packer fan wrote:

I understand that you want to CC in Mi but you can OC. You don't need a CCP in Mi to OC. Do you OC in Wi or only carry at all in the states that you can CC in.
<snip>

Click to expand...

Incorrect!
It is unlawful for aWI resident is to carry, Transport, Or Possess a handgun in MI (Please see the MI section for exact wording of the statute, it is a current discussion)
due to their unique requirement that a non-resident of MI must be licensed or have apermit od some sort in MI, Since WI does not require anylicensing, registration, or permitting to own firearms, we do not qualify.

The real sick part of that law? an IL resident can legally O-C in MI due to their FOID card scheme, but a WI resident with more intact liberties cannot. The same goes for a VT resident since the do not issue any permits.
I beleieve the law is directed at C-C, but the way it is worded is all inclusive.

Click to expand...

You are right I am wrong. Misunderstood the law.:banghead:

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I want to apologise for sounding as if I was arguing. I misunderstood Mi law and now not being able to carry in that state at all I can appreciate the fact you want to push for a permit of some sort. There are places in Mi I would not go and if I had to I would not go unarmed.

Let's just pray that when the ruling that is handed down sometime in June by the Supreme Court to get rid of all gun laws and declare the 2A just what it means.

I feel like an over protectedchild, sitting on the bench,looking at all the other kids on the playground being able to do things that my over protective parents will not allow me to do because of a small chance I might get hurt.

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I can appreciate the fact you want to push for a permit of some sort.

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I do not support permits for in-state carry, But I do feel it should be an affordable option availableif a person needs to travel out of state.

This is exactly where the Thune amendment would have come into play perfectly if it was worded a little different to make all states reciprocal with each other. Now if we can just get the Fed. to say "The constitution cannot be twisted to fit each and every states little wants & needs. It means what it says, and you must abide by it"!

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I as aTruck Driver we need nation wide conceal carry, so when I have no chose to go into some of the places that I go. there is no one there to keep me safe but my self the police are under no ablagation to come to my rescue so I do what I have to do to get back to my home safe.