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Thread: Question about CHP charges...

  1. #1
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    A couple friends of mine just applied for their permits in Warren county and the county charged them $0.50 for postage and envelope. I know it is only 50 cents but principals are principals. I was under the impression some of the fees were to cover the administrative costs of the permit process and I would think that would cover the mailing of the permit. The only way they could have avoided the charge is to submit a stamp and envelope.
    I didn't think the county could do this but I figured it best to ask around a bit first. Any advice?



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    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    Gently point out the law to the court clerk and to the judge. Keep a reciept:

    from § 18.2-308.K.

    The total amount of the charges may not exceed $50.00, and payment may be made by any method accepted by the court.
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

    excerpt By Marko Kloos (http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/?s=major+caudill)

  3. #3
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    nuc65 wrote:
    Gently point out the law to the court clerk and to the judge. Keep a reciept:

    from § 18.2-308.K.

    The total amount of the charges may not exceed $50.00, and payment may be made by any method accepted by the court.
    Unfortunately, the county informed them that in order to avoid the charge they would have to submit a stamped envelope. I may draft up a letter and see if both of them will send in a copy; sadly one is the 'I don't want to rock the boat type'. I'll talk with them tomorrow.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Not intending to speak for him, but what Mike typically suggests in matters like this is to go through the process legally as far as they will let you, and then when they reach the point of breaking the law, take action.

    If they refuse to take your application without the extra fee or your own supplied stamped envelope, then you'd have to go from there. I don't recall the steps, Mike has mentioned the process in several threads here.

    TFred

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    I'd say it'd be 'allowed' since some localities don't mail their permits at all. Is that in the code that they have to mail it? If not, then I'd say they're just offering an 'extra' service for an 'extra' fee.

    Don't really agree with it (I figure in $50 they can probably afford to sign AND mail it), I'm just pointing out how it might be justified.

  6. #6
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    SaltH2OHokie wrote:
    I'd say it'd be 'allowed' since some localities don't mail their permits at all. Is that in the code that they have to mail it? If not, then I'd say they're just offering an 'extra' service for an 'extra' fee.

    Don't really agree with it (I figure in $50 they can probably afford to sign AND mail it), I'm just pointing out how it might be justified.
    The problem with your assessment is that it is simply not in the code that they can require you to either pay extra or to submit a self-addressed stamped envelope.

    The code doesn't say how they are to deliver it, so by silence, one could be required to come pick it up (and I've read that some locations do that), and they could probably also get away with giving you the option to avoid a personal visit if you wish to provide the envelope.

    But the description here seems to say they are requiring you to provide the extra charge or the envelope. Not allowed.

    TFred


  7. #7
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    TFred wrote:
    SaltH2OHokie wrote:
    I'd say it'd be 'allowed' since some localities don't mail their permits at all. Is that in the code that they have to mail it? If not, then I'd say they're just offering an 'extra' service for an 'extra' fee.

    Don't really agree with it (I figure in $50 they can probably afford to sign AND mail it), I'm just pointing out how it might be justified.
    The problem with your assessment is that it is simply not in the code that they can require you to either pay extra or to submit a self-addressed stamped envelope.

    The code doesn't say how they are to deliver it, so by silence, one could be required to come pick it up (and I've read that some locations do that), and they could probably also get away with giving you the option to avoid a personal visit if you wish to provide the envelope.

    But the description here seems to say they are requiring you to provide the extra charge or the envelope. Not allowed.

    TFred
    I'd agree with that. If they say either $.50 more OR an envelope, with no other choices, then I'd say you're correct.

    Perhaps the option exists for neither and it just wasn't relayed to the original poster.

    (Suffolk is one of those that neither mails nor offers the option to mail, by the way. At least not when I got mine a few years ago.)

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    Toad wrote:
    A couple friends of mine just applied for their permits in Warren county and the county charged them $0.50 for postage and envelope. I know it is only 50 cents but principals are principals. I was under the impression some of the fees were to cover the administrative costs of the permit process and I would think that would cover the mailing of the permit. The only way they could have avoided the charge is to submit a stamp and envelope.
    I didn't think the county could do this but I figured it best to ask around a bit first. Any advice?

    Not to belabor the point (as it's already covered) but they CANNOT require more than the law allows.

    I'd take a copy of the permit code section and make it *VERY* clear that you (or your friend) are NOT paying more than $50 as stipulated by law.

    I ran into the same problem yesterday while applying for a passport. The website states quite clearly that cash, credit, check, and money order are accepted as payment types. Lo and behold, the Post Office refuses to accept credit cards for part of the Passport Fees. Yet the website clearly stated (including in the instruction text printed) all the above payment types were acceptable. We both were hit by a local entity that refuses to play ball by the published rules.

  9. #9
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    darthmord wrote:
    Not to belabor the point (as it's already covered) but they CANNOT require more than the law allows.
    I just advised a former student of the same thing regarding Fairfax County the other day. They are asking for a SASE, 3 copies of this and that, etc.

    He is going to fight the good fight and will report his findings back to me.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

  10. #10
    Regular Member CRF250rider1000's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    darthmord wrote:
    Not to belabor the point (as it's already covered) but they CANNOT require more than the law allows.
    I just advised a former student of the same thing regarding Fairfax County the other day. They are asking for a SASE, 3 copies of this and that, etc.

    He is going to fight the good fight and will report his findings back to me.
    I went through that bull crap. What a PITA

  11. #11
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    CRF250rider1000 wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    darthmord wrote:
    Not to belabor the point (as it's already covered) but they CANNOT require more than the law allows.
    I just advised a former student of the same thing regarding Fairfax County the other day. They are asking for a SASE, 3 copies of this and that, etc.

    He is going to fight the good fight and will report his findings back to me.
    I went through that bull crap. What a PITA

    This fellow is going to explain to them that "a copy" of a certificate means "1", not"3 because you are too lazy to walk your tired butt over to the copy machine"...

    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

  12. #12
    Regular Member CRF250rider1000's Avatar
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    I had to go to Staples and make copies of everything which cost ME money as well as the self addressed stamped envelope.

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