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Thread: What would you do.

  1. #1
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    To start the story my friends and I went out to the bar on sat night. Just had fun and a few beers. Got back home around 2AM Sunday morning. Parked the car and went inside and went to bed. Around 7:30 there was a knock at the door and it was our next door nabor. He told me my car was broke into last night. It's a red mini Cooper so I guess thy thought it was a rich persons cat. So I went out side and yep thy broke my pasanger side window and pulled it out side the car. But what's funny is that thy could not get the car door open because when it's locked. You have the push the unlock switch which is in a weird place to open the door. So I called the cops and thy show up and take a look. He told me that this was the first time he has ever seen the window outside the car and that thy must have had a real hard time getting it out. Turns out nothing was missing. My iPod that was in the radio was still there. Thy opened the glove box but took nothing. The one thing thy took was my phone charger that I payied like 8 bucks for from walmart. So then I started thinking what would I have done if I walked out side and saw them breaking into my car. I know what I woul have liked to to but what is a legit way to handle it. Let just say my friends don't question my choice to carry a gun any more

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    Don't go out to the car. If you think someone is breaking into it, call the police. If you go outside and someone is breaking in and it catches you off-guard, get back indoors and call the police. A car is not worth shooting someone over in my opinion. You have insurance that will cover damages/loss if you have a police report. Shooting someone can bring down the fires of hell and is not worth doing unless death or serious injury is on the line.

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    I was not thinking about shooting them but rather kicking their ass. i don't know it just makes me mad as i have been violated and thy will never be held to Justis for it.

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    In Utah you cannot use deadly force to protect property. Stay inside, call po-po.

    Would have to check code, but I imagine going outside and roughing someone up might even end up in possible assault charges, as silly as it sounds.

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    Let me guess, they couldn't be bothered to dust for prints. Pulling out a window
    should leave some nice ones on inside lip.

    They tried steeling my radio, found out it was installed from inside the dash,
    so the thugs stole the knobs, and plastic trim. Only good thing was I ordered
    replacement from manufacturer COD, came home from work and the box was
    sitting on my doorstep.

    Fortunately you don't need to use deadly force to protect the car, you use
    it to protect the car owner when they see you approaching. :shock: It is their
    choice if they want to be arrested or patched up at the morgue.
    After all you don't want to call the cops on a concerned neighbor who was
    looking out for your property after the fact.

    -1 on insurance, they will not cough up $$ to replace things that are discontinued.
    Would liability coverage cover a shooting involving the car? How about if it is AD.




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    JTknives wrote:
    I was not thinking about shooting them but rather kicking their ass. i don't know it just makes me mad as i have been violated and thy will never be held to Justis for it.
    I'm happy to hear you slept through it. Both of you live to fight another day. If anything did happen and the police were called, your BAC would be tested. There are penalties for just carrying under the influence. The assumption is that you were legal since you drove home that night, but we want to make sure we KNOW before picking up a firearm


    Code:
    76-10-528.  Carrying a dangerous weapon while under influence of alcohol or drugs unlawful.
      (1)  Any person who carries a dangerous weapon while under the influence of alcohol or a controlled substance as defined in Section 58-37-2 is guilty of a class B misdemeanor.  Under the influence means the same level of influence or blood or breath alcohol concentration as provided in Subsections 41-6a-502(1)(a) through(c).
      (2)  It is not a defense to prosecution under this section that the person:
      (a)  is licensed in the pursuit of wildlife of any kind; or
      (b)  has a valid permit to carry a concealed firearm.



    -banki-

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    You can use force (other than Deadly force) to protect your property in Utah, I would have to look up the code, and the language it uses. More then likely if you kicked they guy's you would not get arrested. However, it is better to stay inside and call the police.

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    Bennelli wrote:
    You can use force (other than Deadly force) to protect your property in Utah, I would have to look up the code, and the language it uses. More then likely if you kicked they guy's you would not get arrested. However, it is better to stay inside and call the police.
    76-2-406. Force in defense of property.
    A person is justified in using force, other than deadly force, against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that force is necessary to prevent or terminate criminal interference with real property or personal property:
    (1) Lawfully in his possession; or
    (2) Lawfully in the possession of a member of his immediate family; or
    (3) Belonging to a person whose property he has a legal duty to protect.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    well the night went as fallows. guys came over around 7 and we played some PS3 and had a fridge beer. then decided to go out. so we all walked to the bar and played pool and had another beer. around 1:45 we decided that the crowd was a little to drunk for our taste and walked back home. got home just befor 2:00 and i drove my friends home as it had been quite some time since my last beer which was around 9 or so. so i felt i was OK to drive. got back home ten min latter parked the car and my roomate and i went inside. it just really sucks you know and ya no prints where taken. just asked me a few questions and said he would let me know if anything comes of it. o well what can you do. i have had to walk back and forth to work as i have to wait to get the window replaced till this weekend when i get payed. so the car is parked inside the shop at work. but lets just say I'm very happy that i carry a gun when i walk home in the dark. thanks everyone for the advice

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    JTknives wrote:
    To start the story my friends and I went out to the bar on sat night. Just had fun and a few beers. Got back home around 2AM Sunday morning. Parked the car and went inside and went to bed. Around 7:30 there was a knock at the door and it was our next door nabor. He told me my car was broke into last night. It's a red mini Cooper so I guess thy thought it was a rich persons cat. So I went out side and yep thy broke my pasanger side window and pulled it out side the car. But what's funny is that thy could not get the car door open because when it's locked. You have the push the unlock switch which is in a weird place to open the door. So I called the cops and thy show up and take a look. He told me that this was the first time he has ever seen the window outside the car and that thy must have had a real hard time getting it out. Turns out nothing was missing. My iPod that was in the radio was still there. Thy opened the glove box but took nothing. The one thing thy took was my phone charger that I payied like 8 bucks for from walmart. So then I started thinking what would I have done if I walked out side and saw them breaking into my car. I know what I woul have liked to to but what is a legit way to handle it. Let just say my friends don't question my choice to carry a gun any more
    I have had my car broken into several times back in the day before I got a house and a garage. It boils my blood that these types of crimes don't carry a harsher punishment. The statute is clear that you can approach somebody and use force, other than deadly force, to stop or prevent the destruction or loss of property belonging to you.

    Albeit unwise, I, personally, would be inclined to approach the thieves yelling and screaming at the top of my lungs for them to get away from the car while causing as huge a ruckus as possible waking the neighbors and raising hell enough to cause them quite the scare. How they decide to handle this unexpected approach by the property owner would determine whether they run off or end up in a body bag from that point. Then I would call the police, because I would have a description of the suspects and a general direction to point them in when they ran off or bailed into another vehicle which I could get the plate numbers off of. Is it smart for somebody else to do this, probably not? Is it my style though? You better believe it.

    Kevin
    If it isn't broke, then don't fix it, or you'll fix it until it's broke.

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    JTknives wrote:
    To start the story my friends and I went out to the bar on sat night. Just had fun and a few beers. Got back home around 2AM Sunday morning. Parked the car and went inside and went to bed. Around 7:30 there was a knock at the door and it was our next door nabor. He told me my car was broke into last night. It's a red mini Cooper so I guess thy thought it was a rich persons cat. So I went out side and yep thy broke my pasanger side window and pulled it out side the car. But what's funny is that thy could not get the car door open because when it's locked. You have the push the unlock switch which is in a weird place to open the door. So I called the cops and thy show up and take a look. He told me that this was the first time he has ever seen the window outside the car and that thy must have had a real hard time getting it out. Turns out nothing was missing. My iPod that was in the radio was still there. Thy opened the glove box but took nothing. The one thing thy took was my phone charger that I payied like 8 bucks for from walmart. So then I started thinking what would I have done if I walked out side and saw them breaking into my car. I know what I woul have liked to to but what is a legit way to handle it. Let just say my friends don't question my choice to carry a gun any more
    I know how you feel. I had my vehicle broken into the night before I had a great snowmobile trip planned. I thought I would get an early start and put all of my gear in my SUV the night before. I had the helmets, a full set of Craftsman tools, chains, and countless other things stolen. They were pro's who knocked out the wing window with a spring loaded center punch, reached through, unlocked the door, and then quietly crawled over my seats to the back to steal the goods. They cut themselves on the glass while reaching through and bled like a stuck pig all over my tan leather seats, steering wheel, console, dash, and everywhere else you can think of. Even after it was professionally detailed I couldn't stand to be in the vehicle and ended up selling it.

    I was furious. I was hoping when I got to the back that I would find the vehicle burglar back there dead due to blood loss. It makes you want to kill them when you have worked hard for something and some jerk just steals it.

    I contacted Layton P.D. who promptly sent someone out about 4 hours later to take a report. There was blood evidence, finger prints in blood, a clear foot print on a piece of paper that had been on the floor, the spring loaded center punch that had been used to break the window (it had apparently fallen out out of the thief's pocket as he or they crawled around in my vehicle), and who know what else for solid evidence. Nothing was collected except the spring loaded center punch, which had a rough surface designed to keep it from slipping out of your hands and had no chance of recovering any finger prints. It's been a while but I think that due to the value of what was stolen it was actually an investigator of some type who took the report. He wrote down everything that was lost and that was the last I heard of it as far as law enforcement. They just do not spend the time or money on stuff like this. It is expensive.

    I filed an insurance claim. The insurance only covers items directly attached to, or associated with the vehicle. Your homeowner's or renter's insurance has to cover all of the rest. My auto insurance paid for the window, to clean the blood, and for my tire chains.

    I wanted to hunt this person or persons down for days and kill them. However, I am glad that I didn't. Everything was replaceable, I am just fine, and life goes on.

    You may be able to use reasonable force, but if you go out to kick some ass and they have a gun or a partner, you may be the one who gets hurt. It's not worth it. Property is replaceable.

    My advice would be to not get yourself tangled up in something when you can call the police, get a good description of them if you can, and use your insurance.

    Sorry about your car.

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    That is the code I was thinking of , good post.

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    Maybe the first thing you should do is get spell check. JK, One possibility would have been to place them under citizens arrest. You come out with a shotgun and they might have froze in there tracks and complied with your demands for them too get on the ground.(yelling as loud as you can)

    But if want to shot somebody for breaking into your car and get away with it, move to a state like Texas.
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    Sabotage70 wrote:
    ...But if want to shot somebody for breaking into your car and get away with it, move to a state like Texas.
    If you WANT to shoot anyone, you probably shouldn't own or even carry a gun.

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    Check this out, but remember the law is to protect life first then property and under the Constitution everyone has the right to due process before being punished. The thought of kicking someones #ss for wronging you sounds good, but can open you up to civil liability, and or criminal prosecution. It seems after reading all the laws that they protect the criminals and cops, but not so much the citizen. I have listed a few Utah Codes in regards to citizen arrest, but you need to look even further as to when you can use deadly force. Check 76-2-401 thru 407 for use of force and deadly force.

    Arrest, by Whom, and How Made

    77-7-3. By private persons.
    A private person may arrest another:
    (1) For a public offense committed or attempted in his presence; or
    (2) When a felony has been committed and he has reasonable cause to believe the person arrested has committed

    77-7-6. Manner of making arrest.
    (1) The person making the arrest shall inform the person being arrested of his intention, cause, and authority to arrest him. Such notice shall not be required when:
    (a) there is reason to believe the notice will endanger the life or safety of the officer or another person or will likely enable the party being arrested to escape;
    (b) the person being arrested is actually engaged in the commission of, or an attempt to commit, an offense; or
    (c) the person being arrested is pursued immediately after the commission of an offense or an escape.
    (2) (a) If a hearing-impaired person, as defined in Subsection 78B-1-201(2), is arrested for an alleged violation of a criminal law, including a local ordinance, the arresting officer shall assess the communicative abilities of the hearing-impaired person and conduct this notification, and any further notifications of rights, warnings, interrogations, or taking of statements, in a manner that accurately and effectively communicates with the hearing-impaired person including qualified interpreters, lip reading, pen and paper, typewriters, computers with print-out capability, and telecommunications devices for the deaf.
    (b) Compliance with this subsection is a factor to be considered by any court when evaluating whether statements of a hearing-impaired person were made knowingly, voluntarily, and intelligently.


    77-7-7. Force in making arrest.
    If a person is being arrested and flees or forcibly resists after being informed of the intention to make the arrest, the person arresting may use reasonable force to effect the arrest. Deadly force may be used only as provided in Section 76-2-404.

    Don't you think these could have been written in more plain english?





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    In the same situation I would roll over and go back to sleep. Then next day I would install motion detectors in the parking area and a car alarm.

    Kicking someones ass for stealing a car radio is not worth the legal troubles.

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    ProtectedBy9mm wrote:
    Sabotage70 wrote:
    ...But if want to shot somebody for breaking into your car and get away with it, move to a state like Texas.
    If you WANT to shoot anyone, you probably shouldn't own or even carry a gun.
    actually if you want to shot people, the U.S.government has a place in the desert on the other side of the world for you.
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    SGT Jensen wrote:
    Bennelli wrote:
    You can use force (other than Deadly force) to protect your property in Utah, I would have to look up the code, and the language it uses. More then likely if you kicked they guy's you would not get arrested. However, it is better to stay inside and call the police.
    76-2-406. Force in defense of property.
    A person is justified in using force, other than deadly force, against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that force is necessary to prevent or terminate criminal interference with real property or personal property:
    (1) Lawfully in his possession; or
    (2) Lawfully in the possession of a member of his immediate family; or
    (3) Belonging to a person whose property he has a legal duty to protect.
    I would think that if you are faced with having to defend your property that you can claim that you were also "in fear for your life" from the BG because he responded to your confrontation with a threat to your life. In that case you would be well within your RIGHTS to use deadly force then. If you were charged with excessive force I don't think any Jury would convict you. Any other thoughts from anyone on my opinion?
    (Dion Wood). MY FREEDOM PAGE[/COLOR] with valuable links to ALTERNATIVE MEDIA, Internet Radio shows and other sites to restore our FREEDOM & LIBERTYhttp://www.QRZ.com/db/KB9QFH TELEPHONE: +1(800)808-KIWI that's +1(800)808-5494 Tollfree. "NewZealander By Birth, American By The Grace Of God." See also http://www.facebook.com/NewZealandAmerican & http://RTR.org/NewZealandAmerican IN MEMORY OF OUR GOD, OUR RELIGION, AND FREEDOM, AND OUR PEACE, OUR WIVES, AND OUR CHILDREN" (The Title Of LIBERTY)

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    NewZealandAmerican wrote:
    SGT Jensen wrote:
    Bennelli wrote:
    You can use force (other than Deadly force) to protect your property in Utah, I would have to look up the code, and the language it uses. More then likely if you kicked they guy's you would not get arrested. However, it is better to stay inside and call the police.
    76-2-406. Force in defense of property.
    A person is justified in using force, other than deadly force, against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that force is necessary to prevent or terminate criminal interference with real property or personal property:
    (1) Lawfully in his possession; or
    (2) Lawfully in the possession of a member of his immediate family; or
    (3) Belonging to a person whose property he has a legal duty to protect.
    I would think that if you are faced with having to defend your property that you can claim that you were also "in fear for your life" from the BG because he responded to your confrontation with a threat to your life. In that case you would be well within your RIGHTS to use deadly force then. If you were charged with excessive force I don't think any Jury would convict you. Any other thoughts from anyone on my opinion?
    I would recommend having a witness... either YOUR digital recording AND/OR a copy of the 911 recording and transcript if you are to engage in this activity to avoid an "I said, Bad guy said" situation. The risk of failure on this JUSTIFICATION defense is just too high without witnesses!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
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    Regular Member Sabotage70's Avatar
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    JoeSparky wrote:
    NewZealandAmerican wrote:
    SGT Jensen wrote:
    Bennelli wrote:
    You can use force (other than Deadly force) to protect your property in Utah, I would have to look up the code, and the language it uses. More then likely if you kicked they guy's you would not get arrested. However, it is better to stay inside and call the police.
    **** 76-2-406.** Force in defense of property.
    **** A person is justified in using force, other than deadly force, against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that force is necessary to prevent or terminate criminal interference with real property or personal property:
    **** (1) Lawfully in his possession; or
    **** (2) Lawfully in the possession of a member of his immediate family; or
    **** (3) Belonging to a person whose property he has a legal duty to protect.
    I would think that if you are faced with having to defend your property that you can claim that you were also "in fear for your life" from the BG because he responded to your confrontation with a threat to your life. In that case you would be well within your RIGHTS to use deadly force then. If you were charged with excessive force I don't think any Jury would convict you. Any other thoughts from anyone on my opinion?
    I would recommend having a witness... either YOUR digital recording AND/OR a copy of the 911 recording and transcript if you are to engage in this activity to avoid an "I said, Bad guy said" situation. The risk of failure on this JUSTIFICATION defense is just too high without witnesses!
    If maybe they came at you with a knife, screwdriver, or some other weapon. Thats if you had to defend yourself. But if they just ran off there's not much you can do. It would also help if your a morman or as they liked to be called LDS. Then you can get your bishop in there as well as other people from the church to testify on your behalf. Or the prosecutor could paint you as some godless heathen that doesn't go to "there" church.
    Just my $.02
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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    I'm not sure whether I should be offended or not. :?

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    are you a godless heathen that does not go to the state sponsored church?

    oh crap you may be screwed!

  23. #23
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    State sponsored church?

    How about Church sponsored state. Sounds a little closer to reality.

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    either way someone has too much control over the other.

  25. #25
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Not at all. The church has indirect control over the state (the way I see it) only by virtue of the fact that the majority of people in the state are of the LDS faith.

    As of 2006 I believe that the SL Tribune stated that the population was 62% LDS.

    You will never remove religious influence from any democracy due to the fact that most people are influenced by their religious beliefs.

    That means if you are catholic, you are likely to vote for things that the catholic church believes in.

    Same if you are LDS, Wicken, Atheist, Agnostic, etc.

    There is really no direct control of either from the other.

    Sorry for the Hijack guys.

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