SB 747 Hearing

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Sorry, absurdly late on posting this. But the Senate Judicial Committee is hearing SB 747 (remove college classrooms and dorms from Pistol Free Zones) and I will be testifying in support.

So I guess if you work in Lansing and can take a lunch break you could make it...

I'll let everyone know how it goes.

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If this billand the bill that allows carrying on campus I will be a happy man.

Question: If the bill that allows students to carry on campuses passes, does that mean a student could OC on campus too, or does it specifically state that it has to be concealed?

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I wish I was in Michigan so i could make it. I really hope they remove the ban on CC in dorms and classrooms. I know its unlikeley but if something were to ever happen while I was at school I would want to be able to defend myself.

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I'm much more eager for the bill to expand preemption. I don't care about being able to CC vs OC, I just want the law to firmly tell colleges that they aren't above state law.

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Michigander wrote:

I'm much more eager for the bill to expand preemption. I don't care about being able to CC vs OC, I just want the law to firmly tell colleges that they aren't above state law.

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Same here, I'm just curious though if that bill passes could a student OC on campus.

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Michigander wrote:

I'm much more eager for the bill to expand preemption. I don't care about being able to CC vs OC, I just want the law to firmly tell colleges that they aren't above state law.

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I totally agree in the case of public universities such as U of M and MSU but I think the private schools could still make an argument against it on their campuses

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Not as far as I can tell, not without risking getting expelled. I see nothing in this bill to suggest it will expand preemption.


http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2009-2010/billintroduced/Senate/htm/2009-SIB-0747.htm

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I would be so happy to see this pass. However, I think it should only apply to state schools and those that are publicly funded. I'd like to see private schools to retain their property rights.

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JamesIan wrote:

I would be so happy to see this pass. However, I think it should only apply to state schools and those that are publicly funded. I'd like to see private schools to retain their property rights.

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Welcome to OCDO James

I agree with you, at least to some extent, about retaining private property rights. However, a student/faculty member's rights should not necessarily stop at the entrance of the private school/college. IMO, the school should have no say, whatsoever, whatstudent/faculty store in the passenger compartment/trunk of his or her vehicle. Providing of course, it's legal to do so by Federal and State law.

What administration and legislatures are not keeping in mind is that the student/faculty require commuting to and from the facility. Will school administration and state legislature's guaranty and provide safety for the students and faculty to and from work? No, they will not.The safety is left in the hands of the student and faculty member.There's a happy median there somewhere for private property rights...Well hopefully.

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Yep. I also agree with thebill regarding employer parking lots. I want them to have their property rights, but I don't believe they should extend so intrusively into our vehicles(which are quite an investment in property as well). So, you could say that I also have no problem with the parking lot of a college.

I also think a private college should only have as much right as any other business in that they may ban the carry of weapons on the property. As soon as you start taking public money...well, I think that starts the ball rolling in the other direction.

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I did make a statement and present a letter to the committee representing MOC, Inc.

I will say their were more people in favor of the change as well as most of the senators on the committee. Steven Dulan Esq. (Board member MCRGO) made a statement for MCRGO. A few citizens also made pro-gun statements. And two representatives for Students for concealed carry on campus, they were also in favor of the bill.

There were two people there representing universities and community colleges both....you guessed against the bill. They almost were laughed out to the room. Senator Cropsey (Committee member) about ripped the university guy a new one. The Senator stated that if it was a 1st amendment issue the university would be all over it, but when it comes to the 2nd that universities want to deny people their rights. The university guy couldn't really say to much after that. Another Senator also challenged this guys statement that this was an election year ploy. The guy apologised and said that the issue has been an issue before the election year. All in all the two senators made the guy look bad. I was in the front and could see the guy turn a bit red.

Since they had some members of the committee absent they put off voting on the bill.

After the meetingI talked with a few gun-rights people and handed out cards. The Monroe community college newspaper was there and said he may use some of my statement in an article. We shall see.

I won't go into any more as it gets boring. I don't know if there is a way to see any video that may have been taken.

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SpringerXDacp wrote:

JamesIan wrote:

I would be so happy to see this pass. However, I think it should only apply to state schools and those that are publicly funded. I'd like to see private schools to retain their property rights.

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Welcome to OCDO James

I agree with you, at least to some extent, about retaining private property rights. However, a student/faculty member's rights should not necessarily stop at the entrance of the private school/college. IMO, the school should have no say, whatsoever, whatstudent/faculty store in the passenger compartment/trunk of his or her vehicle. Providing of course, it's legal to do so by Federal and State law.

What administration and legislatures are not keeping in mind is that the student/faculty require commuting to and from the facility. Will school administration and state legislature's guaranty and provide safety for the students and faculty to and from work? No, they will not.The safety is left in the hands of the student and faculty member.There's a happy median there somewhere for private property rights...Well hopefully.

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Springer I've been trying to tell people that for some time about the parking lot bill. The anti's were out in force and all over me on that thread an got no backup from anyone else on here.

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This hearing went EXTREMELY well, and it looks favorable for the bill making it out of committee and onto the floor. I won't go into too much detail.


To answer some questions about it, (and my elaborations are not to convince you guys, but to give you ammo with which to effectively fight opponents):

It will make it entirely legal to carry anywhere on a college campus. This removes any legal justification colleges have for prohibiting firearms. Some colleges will claim that their entire class building is a classroom, and thus you cannot carry your pistol. This removes any state endorsement of any such policies, and means that colleges that ban firearms are in the same position as a business establishment that bans firearms - except that colleges are publicly funded institutions, and more frequent targets of violence by insane and suicidal individuals - sure, you may be safer from robbery on campus, but there are few places you can go where you are more in danger of a mass shooting. Yes, there have been only a couple mass shootings at college campuses. But how many have you heard of at bowling alleys? Movie theatres? This is the best argument against the up-and-coming argument that "college campuses are safe areas, safer than surrounding areas."

Currently, you CAN OPEN CARRY in a pistol free zone, and this includes college campuses. The college will throw you out in a heartbeat and expel you for firearms violations. But the state of Michigan will have no case against as you have violated no law.

The bill does not apply to private colleges. As they are privately funded, they can essentially prohibit you from possessing firearms via their contract with you as a student/faculty/staff member. State pre-emption, if extended to colleges, (HB5474) would not extend to private universities, (as far as I have heard.) As this is only a contract they are making with a student, they are free to tell the student that they must leave if they possess a firearm. The reality, however, is that no one really wants to interfere with private schools and thus the issue is not very well covered.

So, to review, according to Michigan state law, you can currently OC or CC anywhere on campus until you reach a classroom or dorm. Once at that point, you must expose your firearm. This bill, if passed, would allow you to keep the firearm concealed -a far more sensible thing in an educational environment.

Please write your State Senator in support of this bill. They really do pay attention to these emails and their level of support depends on how well they feel the measure is supported by their constituents. Here's an entry page for finding your senator. http://senate.michigan.gov/

Specifically, you can help by emailing Sen. Whitmer (East Lansing) SenGWhitmer@senate.michigan.gov
Clark (Wayne County)
SenHansenClarke@senate.michigan.gov
and Basham (Wayne County)
SenRBasham@senate.michigan.gov

The above are the Democrats on the Committee.Only Whitmer attended the meeting and was fairly opposed, but finally relented and called for scientific facts to back up the pro-SB747 arguments. Ihave already emailed her data on the matter.

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Yea i hope the preemption law is expanded! because yes you can legally carry on campus as far as i can tell, but.. if your a student then you sign away your right to a firearm on campus with the student code of conduct.

i know the president here (Western Michigan University) has said at a public forum that he is against guns on campus completely.

side note..
i hate it when people write in the paper "what do these people want? an old school wild west shootout on campus?"
that is such a stupid argument..

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Look them straight in the eye and say...not sure, lets ask the 30+ dead at Virginia tech what they wanted. Bet it was to live & be able to protect themselves. And then just walk away so they can stew on it.

BTW, my old college proff used to say....." Any statement prefaced with the word BUT is always followed up by pure BullS**T" He was a very smart Conservative!! hehehehe

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SpringerXDacp wrote:

JamesIan wrote:

I would be so happy to see this pass. However, I think it should only apply to state schools and those that are publicly funded. I'd like to see private schools to retain their property rights.

Click to expand...

Welcome to OCDO James

I agree with you, at least to some extent, about retaining private property rights. However, a student/faculty member's rights should not necessarily stop at the entrance of the private school/college. IMO, the school should have no say, whatsoever, whatstudent/faculty store in the passenger compartment/trunk of his or her vehicle. Providing of course, it's legal to do so by Federal and State law.

What administration and legislatures are not keeping in mind is that the student/faculty require commuting to and from the facility. Will school administration and state legislature's guaranty and provide safety for the students and faculty to and from work? No, they will not.The safety is left in the hands of the student and faculty member.There's a happy median there somewhere for private property rights...Well hopefully.

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College is not private property actually. they are funded by the Government and they are considered no less than quasi-Public. So open carry and concealed should be allowed in my opinion.

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There are some private colleges as a matter of fact we have a world renown college here in MI. it is Hillsdale. No sate or federal funding.

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conservative85 wrote:

There are some private colleges as a matter of fact we have a world renown college here in MI. it is Hillsdale. No sate or federal funding.

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One of my friends went to Hillsdale. People did come from all over to go there. Funny thing is, they sure knew how to party down there too. The cops were cool too.

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Also I forgot to mention there was an airline pilot that works for the company that lost two planes on 9/11. He stated that the best thing they did was arm pilots and since 9/11 there has not been a hijacking of an American plane. He gave all the credit to pilots being armed and be-littled the airline security, etc... He was in favor of the bill.

Below is the statement I read and letter I gave to the committee. Again I don't know if the video is available to the public, it should be under FOIA I guess.

Dear Committee:

I am President of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. (MOC, Inc.) a Michigan Non-profit pro-gun rights organization. MOC, Inc. is in favor of rescinding all gun free zones in Michigan. They simply do not prevent crime or violence; in fact they encourage just the opposite.

Gun-free zones are killing zones. Criminals intent on harm ignore gun-free zones and see them as a place to commit their atrocities with little chance of being harmed by law-abiding citizens. Why, because law-abiding gun owners follow the law? When they do they are barred their right of self-defense. Studies have shown that lawful gun-owners are among the most law-abiding segment of society, committing fewer crimes than even law enforcement officers.

In this country the most heinous and largest mass killings occur in gun free zones i.e., schools, churches, Military Bases and Malls to name a few. What you don’t see are mass murders in gun stores, police stations and gun ranges or other places people are allowed to bear arms. What differentiates these places is that in one law –abiding citizens are denied the inalienable right to bear arms. Criminals are not going to plan an attack of mass murder in a place where people have a reasonable chance of defending themselves.

The murderous and devastating experiment of gun-free zones has run its course. They do not work. Decades of mass murders have proved this time and time again. The time has come to once again let law-abiding citizen the means necessary to take on the responsibility of defending themselves and their loved ones against evil in all public places.

Sincerely,

Brian Jeffs MS. CPG.
President-MOC, Inc.

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AMEN!!