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Thread: Stating the obvious

  1. #1
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    To all the ladies and gentlemen who post here about the dangers of firearms and lack of training, do you really believe that you are the golden messiah sent from high on the mountain to educate us lowly little beings about the dangers of firearms?

    While I'm not going to point out where this has happened over and over, I'm more than a little annoyed with the folks who make comments about improper training, lack of training, bad guys taking guns from good people, etc...

    Yes, as with MANY things in life, guns, lack of firearms training, improper handling, complacency are all bad things. Pretty sure that damn near EVERYONE that posts here knows that there are dangers associated with guns.

    Get into a car withan education from public school? Far more likely to kill yourself or someone else to to state-sanctioned lack of education. No emergency driving drills, how to drive in bad weather...Should we warn them about the dangers of bad guysstealing their cars and using them to commit crime?

    Why do it here?If someone asks asimple question as to how to educate someone who may notbe aware of their rights, stick to the damn point and don't go offon your little "guns can be dangerous" speech! You sound VERY anti-gun when you do that.

    About your comments about lack of training. I will guarantee that even a jedi master such as yourself has not and will not meet the bar that some people have set for themselves. Check yourself. There's always someone bettertrained than you.Are you really qualified tostand on the soap box?

    Basic point is this: We know guns are dangerous. Please stop stating the extremely obvious. Some people will get training, others will not. Accept it and moveon with your lives.

    As respectfully as possible,

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Commodore76 wrote:
    To all the ladies and gentlemen who post here about the dangers of firearms and lack of training, do you really believe that you are the golden messiah sent from high on the mountain to educate us lowly little beings about the dangers of firearms?

    While I'm not going to point out where this has happened over and over, I'm more than a little annoyed with the folks who make comments about improper training, lack of training, bad guys taking guns from good people, etc...

    Yes, as with MANY things in life, guns, lack of firearms training, improper handling, complacency are all bad things. Pretty sure that damn near EVERYONE that posts here knows that there are dangers associated with guns.

    Get into a car withan education from public school? Far more likely to kill yourself or someone else to to state-sanctioned lack of education. No emergency driving drills, how to drive in bad weather...Should we warn them about the dangers of bad guysstealing their cars and using them to commit crime?

    Why do it here?If someone asks asimple question as to how to educate someone who may notbe aware of their rights, stick to the damn point and don't go offon your little "guns can be dangerous" speech! You sound VERY anti-gun when you do that.

    About your comments about lack of training. I will guarantee that even a jedi master such as yourself has not and will not meet the bar that some people have set for themselves. Check yourself. There's always someone bettertrained than you.Are you really qualified tostand on the soap box?

    Basic point is this: We know guns are dangerous. Please stop stating the extremely obvious. Some people will get training, others will not. Accept it and moveon with your lives.

    As respectfully as possible,
    On the two points I made bold:

    Yes, everyone SHOULD know that guns are dangerous. It's unfortunate that not all do. How many times do we see pictures of people fooling with guns posted on the internet. Have you ever seen someone think it's cool to look down the barrel of a pistol to see the end of the bullet that is in the chamber only to laugh how cool it looks? Sounds stupid, doesn't it but it DOES happen. It happens because there are far too many people that have become complacent around guns and have never been taught the proper respect for them. Unlike a car, you can take your gun many places and do damage a car could never do. A bullet travels far and wide and is indiscriminate in who it kills. You would expect a car on the road/highway and take appropriate action to defend yourself. One can be sitting in a living room, office, bedroom, etc, and suddenly a bullet comes through the wall, discharged by someone showing off for his friends.

    Training comes in all different shapes and forms. It can be as simple as reading the manual that comes with most firearms today, having a "sit-down" with a parent, relative, or friendthat stresses BASIC gun safety. My first gun safety mentor at age 8 was a County Coroner. He saw his share of accidents with guns.It can be as advanced as a year long tactical training course that only a self sufficient multi-millionaire can afford. The point is that TRAINING is important. Knowing Safety, Operation, and Legality of gun use can not be assumed, it has to come from somewhere. Too many people go into gun shops today and don't even know how to load the weapon they are purchasing. The Clerk gives them basic instruction and that's it. These often are the people that "accidently" shoot themselves, their children, their neighbors, etc. because they felt they "Knew Enough".



    Based on some of the dumb comments that show up in posts on this, and other forums, the issues I mention here, there are far too many out there with guns that are deficient in their respect for same and could use at least a little basic "Training".

    As for my being an "anti" because of my views on the above, far be it from the truth. I have been a "gun entusiast" since my early teens and have carried a firearm for over 45 years. I encourage as many people as possible to obtain a firearm and use it wisely. Wisdom dictates that they get training in order to understand and use it wisely.

    Some may disagree but I sincerely hope it is not in principle, merely details.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    I agree with all of your points. My purpose in that post is to try to keep the comments about "proper" training to a minimum as it is mostly preaching to the choir here. We will never stop the dumb from being dumb. Hasn't worked in all of human history. Do we need the constant warnings posted here?

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    Seeing as how it's a public forum read by many with little to no firearm knowledge, I see no problem with it being mentioned with concise wording as a little disclaimer, where appropriate.



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    kito109654 wrote:
    Seeing as how it's a public forum read by many with little to no firearm knowledge, I see no problem with it being mentioned with concise wording as a little disclaimer, where appropriate.

    Then it needs to be on topic and not interjected damn near every time they write something. Yes, there is a time to offer warnings. To be reminded of the potential for a criminal to take a gun and use it against the owner as often as it is posted here? Doesn't need to be thrown out therein thecondescending tone that it keeps appearing.

    How's about a thread a week regarding how many different ways guns are dangerous?Dedicate an entire thread to all the potential mishapsand remind us to TRY to be safe?

    I don't think it's necessary for that warning to be on so many random threads! That's all I'm saying.

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    I certainly cannot disagree with the annoying frequency.

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    Commodore76[/user] wrote: [/b]
    h guns[/b].
    Are you really qualified to¬*stand on the soap box?
    Well, since you asked....yes, I believe I am qualified. My ex-girlfriends father had a friend who used to be a cop and we all know that no one knows more about gun safety than cops do. Anyway, she told me what he said about gun safety and I always carry with the chamber empty and the magazine securely locked in my car's trunk. That way my gun is safe and if, God forbid, a criminal should take the gun from me, he couldn't shoot me or anyone else with it without first obtaining ammunition.

    I wish you guys would get some training.... the dangerous, irresponsible way you handle your firearms makes us all look bad.

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    29er wrote:
    Commodore76[/user] wrote: [/b]
    h guns[/b].
    Are you really qualified tostand on the soap box?
    Well, since you asked....yes, I believe I am qualified. My ex-girlfriends father had a friend who used to be a cop and we all know that no one knows more about gun safety than cops do. Anyway, she told me what he said about gun safety and I always carry with the chamber empty and the magazine securely locked in my car's trunk. That way my gun is safe and if, God forbid, a criminal should take the gun from me, he couldn't shoot me or anyone else with it without first obtaining ammunition.

    I wish you guys would get some training.... the dangerous, irresponsible way you handle your firearms makes us all look bad.
    That was great for comic relief, thank you.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    29er wrote:
    My ex-girlfriends father had a friend who used to be a cop and we all know that no one knows more about gun safety than cops do.
    I can remember numerous occasions where Seattle Police Officers were treated in hospitals other than Harborview for wounds inflicted by their own weapons. Usually involved a wound in their ass, leg, or foot and was caused by their playing with the gun, partially removed from the holster so they could cock it (when they still carried revolvers) and de-cock it with their finger on the trigger. They wouldn't go to Harborview because there were usually too many other officers comming and going. Something like this was to be kept as quiet as possible.

    BTW, this "disease" was not limited to SPD officers. I know of some officers from surrounding counties this happened to as well. So much for "Cops are good examples of how to handle guns".
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    "I have so many patients who come in having shot themselves struggling to take their guns out of their pockets. Young boys. They carry a gun in their pocket, they get into a situation-it's no longer an imaginary thing-they panic, struggle to remove the thing, and the gun goes off. You know what's down there."
    -Dr. Gracie Dinkins, Trauma Surgeon

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    amlevin wrote:
    Have you ever seen someone think it's cool to look down the barrel of a pistol to see the end of the bullet that is in the chamber only to laugh how cool it looks? Sounds stupid, doesn't it but it DOES happen.
    I do it all the time.. Nothing wrong with that.. I have a Glock and there 100% safe!
    I usually even keep my finger on the trigger, as long as I don't pull it I am fine.

    No but seriously I have done it, AND IT DOES LOOK COOL!!! But there was no firing pin in it..

    And I don't have any fancy training and I know full well that if my gun is loaded it is in a holster, or being shot. Trigger guard is always covered. And if there is a bullet in it while I am taking pictures I take out the firing pin to eliminate the chance of a ND.

    I also have no training of any sort in taking apart a gun yet I took my Glock completely apart after the first time I shot it to do a very very detailed cleaning on it. I just love to take things apart. And it works as perfectly good now as it did the day I bought it.

    I don't even think training is all that required if you know what your doing. I would like some good training anyways just to have it. But as I can't afford it, it is not on the top of my priority list.

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    Commodore76 wrote:
    kito109654 wrote:
    Seeing as how it's a public forum read by many with little to no firearm knowledge, I see no problem with it being mentioned with concise wording as a little disclaimer, where appropriate.
    Then it needs to be on topic and not interjected damn near every time they write something. Yes, there is a time to offer warnings. To be reminded of the potential for a criminal to take a gun and use it against the owner as often as it is posted here? Doesn't need to be thrown out therein thecondescending tone that it keeps appearing.

    How's about a thread a week regarding how many different ways guns are dangerous?Dedicate an entire thread to all the potential mishapsand remind us to TRY to be safe?

    I don't think it's necessary for that warning to be on so many random threads! That's all I'm saying.
    But......it comes up in so many ways.

    The safety thing. And the foolish usage thing.

    Here, I was reading Drudge a few minutes ago and there is a link to this story:

    http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news...oting_120709w/

    Two goofs, both trained, one football game, a bunch o' alcohol, one gun and badddd judgment.

    Somehow, I don't think they would have minded a warning about gun safety...

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    HankT wrote:
    Commodore76 wrote:
    kito109654 wrote:
    Seeing as how it's a public forum read by many with little to no firearm knowledge, I see no problem with it being mentioned with concise wording as a little disclaimer, where appropriate.
    Then it needs to be on topic and not interjected damn near every time they write something. Yes, there is a time to offer warnings. To be reminded of the potential for a criminal to take a gun and use it against the owner as often as it is posted here? Doesn't need to be thrown out therein thecondescending tone that it keeps appearing.

    How's about a thread a week regarding how many different ways guns are dangerous?Dedicate an entire thread to all the potential mishapsand remind us to TRY to be safe?

    I don't think it's necessary for that warning to be on so many random threads! That's all I'm saying.
    But......it comes up in so many ways.

    The safety thing. And the foolish usage thing.

    Here, I was reading Drudge a few minutes ago and there is a link to this story:

    http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news...oting_120709w/

    Two goofs, both trained, one football game, a bunch o' alcohol, one gun and badddd judgment.

    Somehow, I don't think they would have minded a warning about gun safety...
    Hank, have you ever been around a young group of tough as nails Marines? Pretty sure that, before the weapon discharged,they would have gaffed your little warning off with a shrug of invincibility. In retrospect, the survivor is probably wishing they had done MANY things differently.

    Warnings only work if they are given to a receptive audience. Read the post directly above yours.Seems to have the common sense to know what is dangerous and what is notWITHOUT specialized training. Is this the exception to the rule or are we in for a surge of stupid?

    Seriously, gun accidents are so rare that even your example had to come from North Carolina.Out of the 200,000,000legally owned firearms, by the logic of the folks posting warnings here, it's a damn miracle that folks without proper training remember to breathe and, if they own guns, shouldall be dead in a matter of minutes.

    To anyone with a clue, training teachestechinique and safetyissues. YouareNOT good or an expert handler simply because you havetraining. You have to practice safety and safe handling OFTEN!!! That is the only thing that will AID in keeping you from becoming a statistic. There are no certainties in this life, all the trainingavailable in the world cannot guarantee your safety or your attention to detail 100% of the time. The user is responsible to practice safe habits as often as possible.



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