Assisting Officers?

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FMCDH wrote:

jddssc121 wrote:

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.01.055

RCW 9.01.055
Citizen immunity if aiding officer, scope — When.

Private citizens aiding a police officer, or other officers of the law in the performance of their duties as police officers or officers of the law, shall have the same civil and criminal immunity as such officer, as a result of any act or commission for aiding or attempting to aid a police officer or other officer of the law, when such officer is in imminent danger of loss of life or grave bodily injury or when such officer requests such assistance and when such action was taken under emergency conditions and in good faith.


[1969 c 37 § 1.]

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Great catch on that one!

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same civil and criminal immunity as such officer, does that mean you will get paid administrative leave while they investigate the crime seen to see if you were justified in defending yourself? After the officer took down maurice clemmons, they put him on paid leave to investigate. Does anyone else think that is stupid and there is a reason to question his actions?

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I would only intervene if the shooter were a threat to me. Just like any time you attempt to use lethal force to help someone you need to be assured of the situation who did what, is it self defense, etc.

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amzbrady wrote:

FMCDH wrote:

jddssc121 wrote:

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.01.055

RCW 9.01.055
Citizen immunity if aiding officer, scope — When.

Private citizens aiding a police officer, or other officers of the law in the performance of their duties as police officers or officers of the law, shall have the same civil and criminal immunity as such officer, as a result of any act or commission for aiding or attempting to aid a police officer or other officer of the law, when such officer is in imminent danger of loss of life or grave bodily injury or when such officer requests such assistance and when such action was taken under emergency conditions and in good faith.


[1969 c 37 § 1.]

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Great catch on that one!

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same civil and criminal immunity as such officer, does that mean you will get paid administrative leave while they investigate the crime seen to see if you were justified in defending yourself? After the officer took down maurice clemmons, they put him on paid leave to investigate. Does anyone else think that is stupid and there is a reason to question his actions?

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Being put on paid admin. leave isn't just so they can investigate, but it's to give the officer time to recoup, as having to use a firearm in deadly force probably takes a huge toll on most people.

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Being put on paid admin. leave isn't just so they can investigate, but it's to give the officer time to recoup, as having to use a firearm in deadly force probably takes a huge toll on most people.

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Amen ta dat, and would seem to me the best reason for the admin leave, not cause they are necessarily the subject of any criminal investigation.

As a side note, one can be deputized instantly by an LEO if they deem it necessary. I was once when a sheriff and I walked onto a bank robbery.
He staged me a short block away to cover his 6, and the robbers left town away from me, so I never popped a cap. The robbers were caught after a chase, tho.
That'll get your adrenaline pumpin' :shock:

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There's been a few times where I've been spooled up to Orange... But it's better to realize that no threat exists and go back down to Yellow than stay in Yellow and have to jump to Red.


The last time I went to orange was when I was CC at a wallymart buying flowers @ 0300.

I noticed a shifty looking fellow with a hoodie on, and the pouch on the hoodie was dangling really low, as if he was carrying something heavy, Ie a gun. and it appeared that he was following me from a distance. I always managed to catch him at the end of the aisle appearing to peek over...

He also managed to walk pretty fast about 50' behind me to get behind me in line at the register... He was on my weak side, and I was acting like I was looking at magazines and whatnot so I could keep an eye on him.. He quickly stuck his hand in his hoodie pocket which caused me to step back a bit, I was already in a defensive position with my shoulder perched on my weapon, and he never took his hand out of his pocket until he got to the register.. I made sure I was slow to pick up my items, making sure I was leaving my strong hand free..

Obviously, nothing happened.. But it's better to take a bit of extra precaution when alarm bells start sounding than to have it take you by surprise...

/rant

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Oh... and of course, for those not familiar... (You ALL should be)


White - Unaware and unprepared. If attacked in Condition White, the only thing that may save you is the inadequacy or ineptitude of your attacker. When confronted by something nasty, your reaction will probably be "Oh my God! This can't be happening to me."


Yellow - Relaxed alert. No specific threat situation. Your mindset is that "today could be the day I may have to defend myself." You are simply aware that the world is a potentially unfriendly place and that you are prepared to defend yourself, if necessary. You use your eyes and ears, and realize that "I may have to SHOOT today." You don't have to be armed in this state, but if you are armed you should be in Condition Yellow. You should always be in Yellow whenever you are in unfamiliar surroundings or among people you don't know. You can remain in Yellow for long periods, as long as you are able to "Watch your six." (In aviation 12 o'clock refers to the direction in front of the aircraft's nose. Six o'clock is the blind spot behind the pilot.) In Yellow, you are "taking in" surrounding information in a relaxed but alert manner, like a continuous 360 degree radar sweep. As Cooper put it, "I might have to shoot."


Orange - Specific alert. Something is not quite right and has gotten your attention. Your radar has picked up a specific alert. You shift your primary focus to determine if there is a threat (but you do not drop your six). Your mindset shifts to "I may have to shoot HIM today." In Condition Orange, you set a mental trigger: "If that goblin does 'x', I will need to stop him." Your pistol usually remains holstered in this state. Staying in Orange can be a bit of a mental strain, but you can stay in it for as long as you need to. If the threat proves to be nothing, you shift back to Condition Yellow. Cooper described this as "I might have to shoot HIM," referring to the specific target which has caused the escalation in alert status.


Red - Condition Red is fight. Your mental trigger (established back in Condition Orange) has been tripped. If "X" happens I will shoot that person.



My 'trigger' in that situation was 'If he pulls out a gun'...

Going from Orange to Red has many advantages, and that split second of preparedness can mean a difference between life/death.

Had I been inattentive, uncaring, or whatever, and the guy DID pull a gun, I'd be dead, as you can't outdraw a gun that's already drawn.

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I guess I'd be extremely hesitant on assisting officers especially if they aren't all aware that you're assisting them. Situations like this can get you shot on accident by the police. Just look at all the plainclothes officers who have been killed in the past because other officers weren't able to identify them as such, saw them as a threat, and decided to neutralize the threat. I don't carry a gun to be a hero. I carry a gun for my own protection and that of my family.

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FunkTrooper wrote:

I would only intervene if the shooter were a threat to me. Just like any time you attempt to use lethal force to help someone you need to be assured of the situation who did what, is it self defense, etc.

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I would intervene in these instances but ad I will protect other human life as well.

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TechnoWeenie wrote:

There's been a few times where I've been spooled up to Orange... But it's better to realize that no threat exists and go back down to Yellow than stay in Yellow and have to jump to Red.


The last time I went to orange was when I was CC at a wallymart buying flowers @ 0300.

I noticed a shifty looking fellow with a hoodie on, and the pouch on the hoodie was dangling really low, as if he was carrying something heavy, Ie a gun. and it appeared that he was following me from a distance. I always managed to catch him at the end of the aisle appearing to peek over...

He also managed to walk pretty fast about 50' behind me to get behind me in line at the register... He was on my weak side, and I was acting like I was looking at magazines and whatnot so I could keep an eye on him.. He quickly stuck his hand in his hoodie pocket which caused me to step back a bit, I was already in a defensive position with my shoulder perched on my weapon, and he never took his hand out of his pocket until he got to the register.. I made sure I was slow to pick up my items, making sure I was leaving my strong hand free..

Obviously, nothing happened.. But it's better to take a bit of extra precaution when alarm bells start sounding than to have it take you by surprise...

/rant

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He was probably the store's loss prevention officer.

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G27 wrote:

(SNIP) Just look at all the plainclothes officers who have been killed in the past because other officers weren't able to identify them as such, saw them as a threat, and decided to neutralize the threat. (SNIP)

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You're phrasing makes it sound like this happens frequently. I cannot think of any off the top of my head. Please cite specific instances where this has occurred.

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G20-IWB24/7 wrote:

G27 wrote:

(SNIP) Just look at all the plainclothes officers who have been killed in the past because other officers weren't able to identify them as such, saw them as a threat, and decided to neutralize the threat. (SNIP)

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You're phrasing makes it sound like this happens frequently.  I cannot think of any off the top of my head.  Please cite specific instances where this has occurred.

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There was one not to long ago. I do not recall where but it was a shootout between a plainclothes officer and an off duty officer. The problem is that they were at a distance as to not be able to ID themselves to each other.

It is the only one that I know of. Most officers killed by other officers are accidental shootings that resulted in pass-through or not being aware of what lies beyond the target.

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Hit them with your car and draw until you have to take action or wait for the cops. Unless you can disable them and back off to a safe distance. This isn't recommended... just something I'm pretty sure would be the first action of mine. Sorry if you don't like it, but that's my choice. :quirky

Another add: I have come to the very good understanding that if you help without the proper credentials and the person dies from an accident, you could be held accountable.

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Too bad things are not just cut and dry, with definite answers, and too bad we dont have a lamens terms lawyer. there would only be two boxes, question and answer. Man, I'm RCW'd, off topic'd, and linked out.

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I have mentioned this before and I think it need be mentioned again...When I was in college, my law prof told me "there is only ont thing positive in law, and that is, nothing is positive in law."

Keep this in mind as you read the RCWs and listen to the opinions of others.