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Shooting at Northern Virginia Community College woodbridge campus

CRF250rider1000

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nova wrote:
TFred wrote:
pwclacrosse wrote:
My family lives right down the road from there. There is a public high school directly across the street from the community college. I am not sure about the designation of college campus, but perhaps being across the street from Freedom High School is what makes it a school zone?
In a strange sort of way, that probably makes me feel better. That is probably exactly why the charge was made, and I'm sure that plays out much better in the media. 1000 feet from the school property line probably covers quite a bit of the campus.

TFred
Well then...The 1000ft rule is federal law and does not apply to private property. If he is charged with that, it then means that they're admitting that NOVA (being funded by the state) is public property and not the private property claim like GMU used "We're traditionally closed to the public" was what GMU said...
Very true. Interesting............
 

TFred

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nova wrote:
TFred wrote:
pwclacrosse wrote:
My family lives right down the road from there. There is a public high school directly across the street from the community college. I am not sure about the designation of college campus, but perhaps being across the street from Freedom High School is what makes it a school zone?
In a strange sort of way, that probably makes me feel better. That is probably exactly why the charge was made, and I'm sure that plays out much better in the media. 1000 feet from the school property line probably covers quite a bit of the campus.

TFred
Well then...The 1000ft rule is federal law and does not apply to private property. If he is charged with that, it then means that they're admitting that NOVA (being funded by the state) is public property and not the private property claim like GMU used "We're traditionally closed to the public" was what GMU said...
See Section C of the Virginia Code that Virginiaplanter posted in his case cite above:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-280

§ 18.2-280. Willfully discharging firearms in public places.

C. If any person willfully discharges or causes to be discharged any firearm upon any public property within 1,000 feet of the property line of any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school property he shall be guilty of a Class 4 felony, unless he is engaged in lawful hunting.
It's state law, but does bring in the public property aspect.

TFred
 

CRF250rider1000

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TFred wrote:
nova wrote:
TFred wrote:
pwclacrosse wrote:
My family lives right down the road from there. There is a public high school directly across the street from the community college. I am not sure about the designation of college campus, but perhaps being across the street from Freedom High School is what makes it a school zone?
In a strange sort of way, that probably makes me feel better. That is probably exactly why the charge was made, and I'm sure that plays out much better in the media. 1000 feet from the school property line probably covers quite a bit of the campus.

TFred
Well then...The 1000ft rule is federal law and does not apply to private property. If he is charged with that, it then means that they're admitting that NOVA (being funded by the state) is public property and not the private property claim like GMU used "We're traditionally closed to the public" was what GMU said...
See Section C of the Virginia Code that Virginiaplanter posted in his case cite above:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-280

§ 18.2-280. Willfully discharging firearms in public places.

C. If any person willfully discharges or causes to be discharged any firearm upon any public property within 1,000 feet of the property line of any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school property he shall be guilty of a Class 4 felony, unless he is engaged in lawful hunting.
It's state law, but does bring in the public property aspect.

TFred
That would be the only way to charge him. If he was on private property, they would not be able to make that charge. If the charge sticks, then NVCC is indisputably confirmed public property IMO.
 

simmonsjoe

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TFred wrote:
CRF250rider1000 wrote:
Virginiaplanter wrote:
discharging a firearm in a school zone.
Yeah I heard that on the radio tonight too. What law puts a community college in a "school zone"?

Legal folks, any ideas?

TFred
I have some legality for you.
NOT A SCHOOL ZONE
CANNOT BAR YOU FROM CARRYING A WEAPON ON CAMPUS
but can levey administrative penalties against you.

on the down side, hurts student armament attempts
on the up side, may help teacher armament attempts
on the worst side, we get to hear Brady lies on TV.

This crazy stuff about guns within a certain distance of a school is insane and needs to be removed from law immediately. It makes it illegal to drive by a school and defend yourself at the same time. So my right to LIFE is subjugated because of my proximity to a school?? WTF This means if you were picking up your student, (in the bus loop) and a crazy guy starts shooting at the kids (including yours) it would be unlawful to shoot back.
 

TFred

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simmonsjoe wrote:
TFred wrote:
CRF250rider1000 wrote:
Virginiaplanter wrote:
discharging a firearm in a school zone.
Yeah I heard that on the radio tonight too. What law puts a community college in a "school zone"?

Legal folks, any ideas?

TFred
I have some legality for you.
NOT A SCHOOL ZONE
CANNOT BAR YOU FROM CARRYING A WEAPON ON CAMPUS
but can levey administrative penalties against you.

on the down side, hurts student armament attempts
on the up side, may help teacher armament attempts
on the worst side, we get to hear Brady lies on TV.

This crazy stuff about guns within a certain distance of a school is insane and needs to be removed from law immediately. It makes it illegal to drive by a school and defend yourself at the same time. So my right to LIFE is subjugated because of my proximity to a school?? WTF This means if you were picking up your student, (in the bus loop) and a crazy guy starts shooting at the kids (including yours) it would be unlawful to shoot back.
No. See Section D of that same code:

D. This section shall not apply to any law-enforcement officer in the performance of his official duties nor to any other person whose said willful act is otherwise justifiable or excusable at law in the protection of his life or property, or is otherwise specifically authorized by law.
TFred
 

CRF250rider1000

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simmonsjoe wrote:
TFred wrote:
CRF250rider1000 wrote:
Virginiaplanter wrote:
discharging a firearm in a school zone.
Yeah I heard that on the radio tonight too. What law puts a community college in a "school zone"?

Legal folks, any ideas?

TFred
I have some legality for you.
NOT A SCHOOL ZONE
CANNOT BAR YOU FROM CARRYING A WEAPON ON CAMPUS
but can levey administrative penalties against you.

on the down side, hurts student armament attempts
on the up side, may help teacher armament attempts
on the worst side, we get to hear Brady lies on TV.

This crazy stuff about guns within a certain distance of a school is insane and needs to be removed from law immediately. It makes it illegal to drive by a school and defend yourself at the same time. So my right to LIFE is subjugated because of my proximity to a school?? WTF This means if you were picking up your student, (in the bus loop) and a crazy guy starts shooting at the kids (including yours) it would be unlawful to shoot back.
It's not illegal to carry/transport a gun within 1000ft of a k-12 school if you have a CHP(federal law). It IS against the law to DISCHARGE a firearm within 1000ft of a k-12 school as per the VA law cited earlier in this post. Minus private property for personal protection of course.
 

simmonsjoe

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CRF250rider1000 wrote:
simmonsjoe wrote:
TFred wrote:
CRF250rider1000 wrote:
Virginiaplanter wrote:
discharging a firearm in a school zone.
Yeah I heard that on the radio tonight too. What law puts a community college in a "school zone"?

Legal folks, any ideas?

TFred
I have some legality for you.
NOT A SCHOOL ZONE
CANNOT BAR YOU FROM CARRYING A WEAPON ON CAMPUS
but can levey administrative penalties against you.

on the down side, hurts student armament attempts
on the up side, may help teacher armament attempts
on the worst side, we get to hear Brady lies on TV.

This crazy stuff about guns within a certain distance of a school is insane and needs to be removed from law immediately. It makes it illegal to drive by a school and defend yourself at the same time. So my right to LIFE is subjugated because of my proximity to a school?? WTF This means if you were picking up your student, (in the bus loop) and a crazy guy starts shooting at the kids (including yours) it would be unlawful to shoot back.
It's not illegal to carry/transport a gun within 1000ft of a k-12 school if you have a CHP(federal law). It IS against the law to DISCHARGE a firearm within 1000ft of a k-12 school as per the VA law cited earlier in this post. Minus private property for personal protection of course.
defend = discharging my gun
 

SouthernBoy

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CRF250rider1000 wrote:
simmonsjoe wrote:
TFred wrote:
CRF250rider1000 wrote:
Virginiaplanter wrote:
discharging a firearm in a school zone.
Yeah I heard that on the radio tonight too. What law puts a community college in a "school zone"?

Legal folks, any ideas?

TFred
I have some legality for you.
NOT A SCHOOL ZONE
CANNOT BAR YOU FROM CARRYING A WEAPON ON CAMPUS
but can levey administrative penalties against you.

on the down side, hurts student armament attempts
on the up side, may help teacher armament attempts
on the worst side, we get to hear Brady lies on TV.

This crazy stuff about guns within a certain distance of a school is insane and needs to be removed from law immediately. It makes it illegal to drive by a school and defend yourself at the same time. So my right to LIFE is subjugated because of my proximity to a school?? WTF This means if you were picking up your student, (in the bus loop) and a crazy guy starts shooting at the kids (including yours) it would be unlawful to shoot back.
It's not illegal to carry/transport a gun within 1000ft of a k-12 school if you have a CHP(federal law). It IS against the law to DISCHARGE a firearm within 1000ft of a k-12 school as per the VA law cited earlier in this post. Minus private property for personal protection of course.
It wouldn't matter whether or not your were on private property if you had to discharge your firearm in defense of yourself. The defense of your life would be deemed of greater importance.

You may legally break laws which if obeyed, could compromise your safety. For example, suppose you are driving down a two-lane road separated by a double line and a vehicle approaching you from the opposite direction suddenly veers into your path. You may cross the double line in an attempt to avoid an accident if you see that as a way out of a dangerous situation.

BTW, INAL.
 

nova

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TFred wrote:
nova wrote:
TFred wrote:
pwclacrosse wrote:
My family lives right down the road from there. There is a public high school directly across the street from the community college. I am not sure about the designation of college campus, but perhaps being across the street from Freedom High School is what makes it a school zone?
In a strange sort of way, that probably makes me feel better. That is probably exactly why the charge was made, and I'm sure that plays out much better in the media. 1000 feet from the school property line probably covers quite a bit of the campus.

TFred
Well then...The 1000ft rule is federal law and does not apply to private property. If he is charged with that, it then means that they're admitting that NOVA (being funded by the state) is public property and not the private property claim like GMU used "We're traditionally closed to the public" was what GMU said...
See Section C of the Virginia Code that Virginiaplanter posted in his case cite above:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-280

§ 18.2-280. Willfully discharging firearms in public places.

C. If any person willfully discharges or causes to be discharged any firearm upon any public property within 1,000 feet of the property line of any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school property he shall be guilty of a Class 4 felony, unless he is engaged in lawful hunting.
It's state law, but does bring in the public property aspect.

TFred
Didn't see that before posting before.

ugh...well at least my comment re: public property and public colleges stands :lol:
 

CRF250rider1000

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SouthernBoy wrote:
CRF250rider1000 wrote:
simmonsjoe wrote:
TFred wrote:
CRF250rider1000 wrote:
Virginiaplanter wrote:
discharging a firearm in a school zone.
Yeah I heard that on the radio tonight too. What law puts a community college in a "school zone"?

Legal folks, any ideas?

TFred
I have some legality for you.
NOT A SCHOOL ZONE
CANNOT BAR YOU FROM CARRYING A WEAPON ON CAMPUS
but can levey administrative penalties against you.

on the down side, hurts student armament attempts
on the up side, may help teacher armament attempts
on the worst side, we get to hear Brady lies on TV.

This crazy stuff about guns within a certain distance of a school is insane and needs to be removed from law immediately. It makes it illegal to drive by a school and defend yourself at the same time. So my right to LIFE is subjugated because of my proximity to a school?? WTF This means if you were picking up your student, (in the bus loop) and a crazy guy starts shooting at the kids (including yours) it would be unlawful to shoot back.
It's not illegal to carry/transport a gun within 1000ft of a k-12 school if you have a CHP(federal law). It IS against the law to DISCHARGE a firearm within 1000ft of a k-12 school as per the VA law cited earlier in this post. Minus private property for personal protection of course.
It wouldn't matter whether or not your were on private property if you had to discharge your firearm in defense of yourself. The defense of your life would be deemed of greater importance.

You may legally break laws which if obeyed, could compromise your safety. For example, suppose you are driving down a two-lane road separated by a double line and a vehicle approaching you from the opposite direction suddenly veers into your path. You may cross the double line in an attempt to avoid an accident if you see that as a way out of a dangerous situation.

BTW, INAL.
This is true. I see your point.
 

virginiatuck

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CRF250rider1000 wrote:
SouthernBoy wrote:
It wouldn't matter whether or not your were on private property if you had to discharge your firearm in defense of yourself. The defense of your life would be deemed of greater importance.

You may legally break laws which if obeyed, could compromise your safety. For example, suppose you are driving down a two-lane road separated by a double line and a vehicle approaching you from the opposite direction suddenly veers into your path. You may cross the double line in an attempt to avoid an accident if you see that as a way out of a dangerous situation.

BTW, INAL.
This is true. I see your point.
I get and agree with your point, but I don't like that analogy. Moving to the left is reckless. What if the vehicle that initially veered into in your lane recovers just as you swerve to the left? Or you move left to get around that vehicle, but end up hitting another oncoming car? You'd be at fault for any accident that occurs as a result of you crossing into the opposing lane. Swerve to the right and take your chances there, even if it means sustaining some damage or injury; chances are it's better than a head-on collision with a moving vehicle. That is, unless swerving to the right would take you off a high cliff.

BTW, IANACANAL (I Am Not A Claims Adjuster Nor A Lawyer)
 

simmonsjoe

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virginiatuck wrote:
CRF250rider1000 wrote:
SouthernBoy wrote:
It wouldn't matter whether or not your were on private property if you had to discharge your firearm in defense of yourself. The defense of your life would be deemed of greater importance.

You may legally break laws which if obeyed, could compromise your safety. For example, suppose you are driving down a two-lane road separated by a double line and a vehicle approaching you from the opposite direction suddenly veers into your path. You may cross the double line in an attempt to avoid an accident if you see that as a way out of a dangerous situation.

BTW, INAL.
This is true. I see your point.
I get and agree with your point, but I don't like that analogy. Moving to the left is reckless. What if the vehicle that initially veered into in your lane recovers just as you swerve to the left? Or you move left to get around that vehicle, but end up hitting another oncoming car? You'd be at fault for any accident that occurs as a result of you crossing into the opposing lane. Swerve to the right and take your chances there, even if it means sustaining some damage or injury; chances are it's better than a head-on collision with a moving vehicle. That is, unless swerving to the right would take you off a high cliff.

BTW, IANACANAL (I Am Not A Claims Adjuster Nor A Lawyer)
Well This is somewhere I have experience and knowledge (being a truck driver).
And VirginiaTuck is pretty much correct. You need to use priorities.

head on collision
hitting a fixed object
hitting a vehicle traveling in the same direction as you
don't hit anything

Stay as low on the list as possible in a collision.
Keep a high situational awareness while driving and keep at least 15 seconds eye-lead time. (never focus on the roadway, focus on the horizon.)

if you see possible collision.
Bleed off as much speed as possible without losing control (check your rearview mirror, bleeding off speed so fast that you get rear ended may make you lose control and is more dangerous that controlled speed)
Never cross into oncoming traffic except to avoid hitting children.**
keep an eye on your side of the road and try to see a "soft spot" (no trees!) to drive off the road if necessary. (AIM STRAIGHT AND DO NOT HIT YOUR BRAKES)
Always aim for a glancing collision.

Your own children count. If you have kids on board your legal legal liability is less important than their well-being.

Now things are a little different in a tractor trailer because, well, we always win with cars. A head on collision with a car or pickup, even some jacked up F250 with 33" tires doesn't mean much to me. That being said even a 'minor' accident with a car can be fatal to the four wheelers occupants. It is a moral decision you have to decide your criteria for when you'll drive over anyone(safe) or drive off the road(much higher rate of fatality that cars) and risk a rollover. Also because our trailers are heavier than our trucks, if we brake too hard the trailer overcomes the truck due to momentum(jack knife) and being 53' can cause a collision hazard across five lanes, or even into oncoming interstate traffic. I decided I would risk death, even if I wasn't in any was negligable, if it would likely save the lives of innocents(passenger vehicles, or cars not at fault, or cars that appear to have children on board) Also I decided lacking any evidence of innocents, I would not risk my life.

Wow this is so off topic. sorry.
 

SouthernBoy

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virginiatuck wrote:
CRF250rider1000 wrote:
SouthernBoy wrote:
It wouldn't matter whether or not your were on private property if you had to discharge your firearm in defense of yourself. The defense of your life would be deemed of greater importance.

You may legally break laws which if obeyed, could compromise your safety. For example, suppose you are driving down a two-lane road separated by a double line and a vehicle approaching you from the opposite direction suddenly veers into your path. You may cross the double line in an attempt to avoid an accident if you see that as a way out of a dangerous situation.

BTW, INAL.
This is true. I see your point.
I get and agree with your point, but I don't like that analogy. Moving to the left is reckless. What if the vehicle that initially veered into in your lane recovers just as you swerve to the left? Or you move left to get around that vehicle, but end up hitting another oncoming car? You'd be at fault for any accident that occurs as a result of you crossing into the opposing lane. Swerve to the right and take your chances there, even if it means sustaining some damage or injury; chances are it's better than a head-on collision with a moving vehicle. That is, unless swerving to the right would take you off a high cliff.

BTW, IANACANAL (I Am Not A Claims Adjuster Nor A Lawyer)
My point was the fact that you may disregard a law if it by obeying it would compromise your safety and well being, not whether or not moving to the left or the right is the better move. Obviously, you take whatever action you must under the instant circumstances, be that a move to either direction in order to escape damage to your property and injury to your person.
 

Hawkflyer

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While I really hate to interrupt this discussion to post on the topic --

It would seem that the "boy wonder" in this shooting event, bought his rifle at a store along the Prince William Prky. Only one I can think of would be Dick's Sporting goods.

In this case at least it was not a "black" rifle, as he is reported to have used a Marlin bolt action .30-06, which "Jammed" during the incident. Apparently the shooter was not experienced and could not clear the weapon and that is why only 2 shots were fired. Divine intervention at its best I suppose.

Regards
 

hunter45

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Hawkflyer wrote:
While I really hate to interrupt this discussion to post on the topic --

It would seem that the "boy wonder" in this shooting event, bought his rifle at a store along the Prince William Prky. Only one I can think of would be Dick's Sporting goods.

In this case at least it was not a "black" rifle, as he is reported to have used a Marlin bolt action .30-06, which "Jammed" during the incident. Apparently the shooter was not experienced and could not clear the weapon and that is why only 2 shots were fired. Divine intervention at its best I suppose.

Regards

Yep, I Just read an article on Yahoo that said he bought it at Dick's Sporting Goods on Monday. I guess this guy only wanted to kill his teacher. I don't see why he would buy a bolt action rifle is he was planning on going on a rampage. Someone should have gotten up and tackled his ass after he fired the first shot before he could get another round chambered.
 

NightmareSHANIQUA

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hunter45 wrote:
Hawkflyer wrote:
While I really hate to interrupt this discussion to post on the topic --

It would seem that the "boy wonder" in this shooting event, bought his rifle at a store along the Prince William Prky. Only one I can think of would be Dick's Sporting goods.

In this case at least it was not a "black" rifle, as he is reported to have used a Marlin bolt action .30-06, which "Jammed" during the incident. Apparently the shooter was not experienced and could not clear the weapon and that is why only 2 shots were fired. Divine intervention at its best I suppose.

Regards

Yep, I Just read an article on Yahoo that said he bought it at Dick's Sporting Goods on Monday. I guess this guy only wanted to kill his teacher. I don't see why he would buy a bolt action rifle is he was planning on going on a rampage. Someone should have gotten up and tackled his ass after he fired the first shot before he could get another round chambered.
Truth...
 

Grapeshot

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NightmareSHANIQUA wrote:
hunter45 wrote:
Hawkflyer wrote:
While I really hate to interrupt this discussion to post on the topic --

It would seem that the "boy wonder" in this shooting event, bought his rifle at a store along the Prince William Prky. Only one I can think of would be Dick's Sporting goods.

In this case at least it was not a "black" rifle, as he is reported to have used a Marlin bolt action .30-06, which "Jammed" during the incident. Apparently the shooter was not experienced and could not clear the weapon and that is why only 2 shots were fired. Divine intervention at its best I suppose.

Regards

Yep, I Just read an article on Yahoo that said he bought it at Dick's Sporting Goods on Monday. I guess this guy only wanted to kill his teacher. I don't see why he would buy a bolt action rifle is he was planning on going on a rampage. Someone should have gotten up and tackled his ass after he fired the first shot before he could get another round chambered.
Truth...
Attacking and over powering an active shooter is an often recommended action. Sure beats sitting/standing there and being shot.

Yata hey
 

darthmord

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Grapeshot wrote:
NightmareSHANIQUA wrote:
hunter45 wrote:
Hawkflyer wrote:
While I really hate to interrupt this discussion to post on the topic --

It would seem that the "boy wonder" in this shooting event, bought his rifle at a store along the Prince William Prky. Only one I can think of would be Dick's Sporting goods.

In this case at least it was not a "black" rifle, as he is reported to have used a Marlin bolt action .30-06, which "Jammed" during the incident. Apparently the shooter was not experienced and could not clear the weapon and that is why only 2 shots were fired. Divine intervention at its best I suppose.

Regards

Yep, I Just read an article on Yahoo that said he bought it at Dick's Sporting Goods on Monday. I guess this guy only wanted to kill his teacher. I don't see why he would buy a bolt action rifle is he was planning on going on a rampage. Someone should have gotten up and tackled his ass after he fired the first shot before he could get another round chambered.
Truth...
Attacking and over powering an active shooter is an often recommended action. Sure beats sitting/standing there and being shot.

Yata hey
If you are going to be shot by the BG anyways, he may as well have to earn that shot.
 
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