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Hey, Big Boy, you think yours is big? The FBI has you beat!

Tomahawk

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Gunslinger wrote:
The fbi needs firepower. Treason, killing innocent women holding babies,burning children to death, stealing laptops and anything else that isn't bolted to the floor is seriouswork. J. Edgar is probably dancing around in his dress in hell with joy. And their greatest hero, Hanssen, would approve.

Zing!

About J. Edgar: how does a 20mm rifle make it easier to collect info for blackmailing politicians and celebrities, I wonder?
 

Sonora Rebel

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I see none y'all ever wrenched 'n fed 20mm nuthin'. The M61-A1 and MK-12/MK11's are electric primed. The AN/M3's (GM/Hispano) are percussion. 20mm service flavors are TP, APT, HEI & API.All solid 'blue' is TP. (inert) The MK-12 fired (linked) MK 100 series ammo. That's the round under the blue beret photo) M61A1 fires LALS drum fed M50 series (first photo with comparitive bullets). Also in TP, APT, HEI and API flavors.

Suspect this 'rifle' ammo would be M3. 'Boys' had a magazinefed .55 cal AT rifle in WWII


The MK 11 was a re-hash of a German Henshel WWII (twin barrel) design that didn't work well at all. The MK 12 used 1200 psi on the gun charger, 1000 psi on the buffer 'n 700 psi on theMk 7 feed mech. The primary MK 12 Navy platforms were 4x on the F-8 and 2x on the A-4. There was another MK 12'gun pod'... GPU2A-XN1 carried on OV-10A's in 'Nam and nowhere else mfg'd in China Lake. Nothing you could mount on a pick-up truck easily. This was the single barreled MK 12, not the triple M197 gun. The AD-6 SpAD's carried 6 M3's in the wings.
 

Tomahawk

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Sonora Rebel wrote:
I see none y'all ever wrenched 'n fed 20mm nuthin'. The M61-A1 and MK-12/MK11's There was another MK 12'gun pod'... GPU2A-XN1 carried on OV-10A's in 'Nam and nowhere else mfg'd in China Lake. Nothing you could mount on a pick-up truck easily. This was the single barreled MK 12, not the triple M197 gun.
We were still operating OV-10s in the Gulf War in 91. I don't know what their armament was then.

I was part of an AV-8B squadron at the time, and the OV-10 squadron was attached to our MAG ashore.
 

thnycav

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No I have not worked on them but I have worked around them enough. 20 years in the Infantry and Air Cavalry. The Vulcans are 20mm as well as the chain gun on the AH64.

The main point is that the Army paints ammo with blue to show they are training rounds. I have fired enough 40mm rounds out of both the M203 and the M79.
 

Sonora Rebel

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thnycav wrote:
No I have not worked on them but I have worked around them enough. 20 years in the Infantry and Air Cavalry. The Vulcans are 20mm as well as the chain gun on the AH64.

The main point is that the Army paints ammo with blue to show they are training rounds. I have fired enough 40mm rounds out of both the M203 and the M79.

Information on color coding for ammunition 20-mm or larger is contained in MIL-STD-709, OP 2238 (latest revision), and WS 18782.

'Vulcan' is the M61A1 gun.

The M230 chain gun on the AH-64 is 30mm not 20mm.
 

thnycav

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The first version did have a 20mm, as well as the AH1G cobra had a 20mm. Like I said I was with the Infantry I was more worried about how to call in a air support so they could get their rounds on target then worrying about the trivia.

I had no need to know the reg about the color of the round all I needed was to know that a blue round in my M203/M79 was not going to do much.
 

Sonora Rebel

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Tomahawk wrote:
Sonora Rebel wrote:
I see none y'all ever wrenched 'n fed 20mm nuthin'. The M61-A1 and MK-12/MK11's There was another MK 12'gun pod'... GPU2A-XN1 carried on OV-10A's in 'Nam and nowhere else mfg'd in China Lake. Nothing you could mount on a pick-up truck easily. This was the single barreled MK 12, not the triple M197 gun.
We were still operating OV-10s in the Gulf War in 91. I don't know what their armament was then.

I was part of an AV-8B squadron at the time, and the OV-10 squadron was attached to our MAG ashore.
The Marinebird at that time was the OV-10D model... but still retained 5 Aero 65A1 bomb racks and the wing station hard points for Aero 7A1 launchers. We used the sidewinder launchers to carry LAU-33/A twin 5" rocket launchers that had been initially used on the F-8 Crusader fuselage stations. The weapons pod carried a pair of M-60's per side. So... 4 x 7.62MGs... 4xLAU-10's X 4 5" Zuni's ea'n 2X LAU 33/A's X 4 5" Zuni's ea X 1 GPU2A-XN1 20mm gun pod centerline in a vertical dive could bring much pee on any target. The problem was... they are vulnerable to SA-7's 'n can only bucket along at around 240KIAS loaded up 'n level. Also carried LAU 68/32 2.75" and CBU-55/B FAE... flares... gunpods... most anything with 14"/30" suspension.
 

Sonora Rebel

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thnycav wrote:
The first version did have a 20mm, as well as the AH1G cobra had a 20mm. Like I said I was with the Infantry I was more worried about how to call in a air support so they could get their rounds on target then worrying about the trivia.

I had no need to know the reg about the color of the round all I needed was to know that a blue round in my M203/M79 was not going to do much.
Sad to say... that's why ground pounders blow themselves up frequently 'cause stuff like ammo color code'trivia' is not taught.
 

simmonsjoe

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gobudygook gobbledygook. Toil and boil. Us non-military background types are very confused with your pig-Latin private language. Don't mind me if I just sit here quietly and nod my head occasionally like I have the decoder ring and am understanding your sage advise and commentary.

:)
 

Gunslinger

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simmonsjoe wrote:
gobudygook gobbledygook. Toil and boil. Us non-military background types are very confused with your pig-Latin private language. Don't mind me if I just sit here quietly and nod my head occasionally like I have the decoder ring and am understanding your sage advise and commentary.

:)
Maybe if you had served, you'd have a different attitude about those of us who have.
 

Gunslinger

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Sonora Rebel wrote:
Tomahawk wrote:
Sonora Rebel wrote:
I see none y'all ever wrenched 'n fed 20mm nuthin'. The M61-A1 and MK-12/MK11's There was another MK 12'gun pod'... GPU2A-XN1 carried on OV-10A's in 'Nam and nowhere else mfg'd in China Lake. Nothing you could mount on a pick-up truck easily. This was the single barreled MK 12, not the triple M197 gun.
We were still operating OV-10s in the Gulf War in 91. I don't know what their armament was then.

I was part of an AV-8B squadron at the time, and the OV-10 squadron was attached to our MAG ashore.
The Marinebird at that time was the OV-10D model... but still retained 5 Aero 65A1 bomb racks and the wing station hard points for Aero 7A1 launchers. We used the sidewinder launchers to carry LAU-33/A twin 5" rocket launchers that had been initially used on the F-8 Crusader fuselage stations. The weapons pod carried a pair of M-60's per side. So... 4 x 7.62MGs... 4xLAU-10's X 4 5" Zuni's ea'n 2X LAU 33/A's X 4 5" Zuni's ea X 1 GPU2A-XN1 20mm gun pod centerline in a vertical dive could bring much pee on any target. The problem was... they are vulnerable to SA-7's 'n can only bucket along at around 240KIAS loaded up 'n level. Also carried LAU 68/32 2.75" and CBU-55/B FAE... flares... gunpods... most anything with 14"/30" suspension.
The Broncos the AF used in SEA were never loaded like that. Keeping in mind it was a slow FAC bird, it usually carried as many Willy Petes as it could hang and--if I recall, two M-60s dual mount on the starboard side. Not only SA-7s, but small arms at the altitude they flew at were constant threats. The ZPU-23 was its worst nightmare, as it was to all slow movers in the weeds.
 

Sonora Rebel

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Gunslinger wrote:
The Marinebird at that time was the OV-10D model... but still retained 5 Aero 65A1 bomb racks and the wing station hard points for Aero 7A1 launchers. We used the sidewinder launchers to carry LAU-33/A twin 5" rocket launchers that had been initially used on the F-8 Crusader fuselage stations. The weapons pod carried a pair of M-60's per side. So... 4 x 7.62MGs... 4xLAU-10's X 4 5" Zuni's ea'n 2X LAU 33/A's X 4 5" Zuni's ea X 1 GPU2A-XN1 20mm gun pod centerline in a vertical dive could bring much pee on any target. The problem was... they are vulnerable to SA-7's 'n can only bucket along at around 240KIAS loaded up 'n level. Also carried LAU 68/32 2.75" and CBU-55/B FAE... flares... gunpods... most anything with 14"/30" suspension.
The Broncos the AF used in SEA were never loaded like that. Keeping in mind it was a slow FAC bird, it usually carried as many Willy Petes as it could hang and--if I recall, two M-60s dual mount on the starboard side. Not only SA-7s, but small arms at the altitude they flew at were constant threats. The ZPU-23 was its worst nightmare, as it was to all slow movers in the weeds.
Well... we squids used the Bronco to effect in CAS 'n I recalled many a string of green basketballs past the windscreen wondering why-in-hell they didn't hit nuthin'. Yeah... we lost a pilot to SA fire... 'n the rear seat enlisted guy brought the bird home. (An AO2) See... happiness is 240KIAS level @ 800' with 5 big white FAEs fulla Ethylene Oxide to aim at from below... and Mr. Charles has a case of the ass. Look up VAL-4 Black Pony, TF 116 Riverine (IV Corps).
 

GLOCK21GB

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I know why they want the 20 mm round...so they can fire depleted uranium rounds at us civilians when the civil war starts. Seriously, there is absolutely no reason for the FBI to need or obtain a sniper rifle type weapon that fires the 20 mm round, NON.

We civilians can legally obtain a 50 BMG rifle for now.. Gizzly, Barrett, etc. so the Gobernment needs to one up us all & get a 20 mm weapon. Go figure they got lots of money to burn..tax payers money that is.
 

simmonsjoe

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Gunslinger wrote:
simmonsjoe wrote:
gobudygook gobbledygook. Toil and boil.  Us non-military background types are very confused with your pig-Latin private language.  Don't mind me if I just sit here quietly and nod my head occasionally like I have the decoder ring and am understanding your sage advise and commentary.

:)
Maybe if you had served, you'd have a different attitude about those of us who have.
What 'Attitude' are you talking about? Did you actually read my post?
 

Sonora Rebel

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Glock34 wrote:
I know why they want the 20 mm round...so they can fire depleted uranium rounds at us civilians when the civil war starts. Seriously, there is absolutely no reason for the FBI to need or obtain a sniper rifle type weapon that fires the 20 mm round, NON.

We civilians can legally obtain a 50 BMG rifle for now.. Gizzly, Barrett, etc. so the Gobernment needs to one up us all & get a 20 mm weapon. Go figure they got lots of money to burn..tax payers money that is.

DU's only good for AP 'n against incoming missile guidance systems (such as CIWS) I don't think 20mm is fast enough for that. However... HEI (High Explosive Incendiary) API (Armor Piercing Incendiary) will do far more damage than a solid slug .50 bullet will. (they don't explode).

"The 20mm MK149 was developed with a significant anti-armor capability, optimized exterior ballistic performance and short time-of-flight. General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems has produced in excess of 20,000,000 rounds of MK149 ammunition for the U.S. Navy's Phalanx Anti-Ship Missile Defense System.
The US Navy has replaced the MK149-2 Phalanx round with a DU penetrator by the MK149-4 Phalanx round with a tungsten penetrator. In 1988 the Navy opted to transition the CIWS 20mm round from DU to tungsten. The Navy made the decision based on live fire tests that showed that tungsten met the Navy's performance requirements while offering reduced probabilities of radiation exposure and environmental impact. It should be noted that the "soft" targets the CIWS was designed to defeat-anti-ship missiles at close range-are far easier to destroy than "hard" targets like tanks. Substantial stocks of DU ammunition delivered prior to that date remain in the inventory."
Team: 20mm AmmunitionHeight (max): 168mmWeight: 253gNumber Produced: 3M+Muzzle Velocity (nominal): 3700 f/sChamber Pressure (typical): 60,500 psiTrace (typical): Untraced
So... ya got a million rounds of this 20mm DU stuff sittin' around... Some FBI wonk sez... 'Hey... what if...?"
 

Sonora Rebel

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simmonsjoe wrote:
Gunslinger wrote:
simmonsjoe wrote:
gobudygook gobbledygook. Toil and boil. Us non-military background types are very confused with your pig-Latin private language. Don't mind me if I just sit here quietly and nod my head occasionally like I have the decoder ring and am understanding your sage advise and commentary.

:)
Maybe if you had served, you'd have a different attitude about those of us who have.
What 'Attitude' are you talking about? Did you actually read my post?
It's the language of the craft. The arcana of war.Not pig-Latin at all. It's proper nomenclature and identification of 'things' that comprise other 'things' and what they do. It's also a great way to catch posers.
 

Tomahawk

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simmonsjoe wrote:
Gunslinger wrote:
simmonsjoe wrote:
gobudygook gobbledygook. Toil and boil. Us non-military background types are very confused with your pig-Latin private language. Don't mind me if I just sit here quietly and nod my head occasionally like I have the decoder ring and am understanding your sage advise and commentary.

:)
Maybe if you had served, you'd have a different attitude about those of us who have.
What 'Attitude' are you talking about? Did you actually read my post?
For once I agree with Gunslinger and (gasp) Sonora Rebel. Your post was pointless, insulting, and revealing.
 

simmonsjoe

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Sonora Rebel wrote:
simmonsjoe wrote:
Gunslinger wrote:
simmonsjoe wrote:
gobudygook gobbledygook. Toil and boil. Us non-military background types are very confused with your pig-Latin private language. Don't mind me if I just sit here quietly and nod my head occasionally like I have the decoder ring and am understanding your sage advise and commentary.

:)
Maybe if you had served, you'd have a different attitude about those of us who have.
What 'Attitude' are you talking about? Did you actually read my post?
It's the language of the craft. The arcana of war.Not pig-Latin at all. It's proper nomenclature and identification of 'things' that comprise other 'things' and what they do. It's also a great way to catch posers.
But 'things that comprise things' is all I understand. I would be a poser if I pretended I knew wtf you were talking about. You are looking for insult where none was offered. Although you are using english letters and numbers to identify things, you are arranging them in a way that someone who is uninitiated wouldn't understand based on normal knowlege of the english language. e.i. a private language. Pig-Latin is defined as a game of rearranging letters so th...

You know what?? It was funny. I'm not going to explain it if you don't get it.
 
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