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Thread: VCDL Members address Newport News City Council about MAIG

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    On Dec 8, 2009, VCDL EM Ron Lily and myself addressed the Newport News CIty Council and expressed our concerns about Mayor Joe Frank's involvement with this organization.

    Ron & I were the 3rd & 4th speakers respectively. Hizzoner responded after we both spoke, and it appears that we hit a nerve.

    The city video of the meeting is on line at

    http://newportnews.granicus.com/Medi...mp;clip_id=619

    Scroll down the agenda page to Item H, and the video will (at least it did for me) fast-fwd to the 1st speaker.

    You might also find the last speaker interesting. She is the mother of a young man shot and killed by a NNPD Officer in 2007, with whom the city reached a settllement in a wrongful death suit, but retained the officer on the NNPD.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    2a4all wrote:
    On Dec 8, 2009, VCDL EM Ron Lily and myself addressed the Newport News CIty Council and expressed our concerns about Mayor Joe Frank's involvement with this organization.

    Ron & I were the 3rd & 4th speakers respectively. Hizzoner responded after we both spoke, and it appears that we hit a nerve.

    The city video of the meeting is on line at

    http://newportnews.granicus.com/Medi...mp;clip_id=619

    Scroll down the agenda page to Item H, and the video will (at least it did for me) fast-fwd to the 1st speaker.

    You might also find the last speaker interesting. She is the mother of a young man shot and killed by a NNPD Officer in 2007, with whom the city reached a settllement in a wrongful death suit, but retained the officer on the NNPD.
    Can you summarize for us? What was the overall reaction?

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    Mayor Joe Frank: YOU MUST GO! YOU WILL NOT HAVE ANOTHER TERM!!!!!!!
    Bitka Sve Rešava!
    B-2-10 SFG(A)/ A-2-11 SFG(A) 1977-1994

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:

    Can you summarize for us? What was the overall reaction?

    Yata hey
    After watching the video it appears the Mayor tried to justify his position, it was a lame attempt.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    At least Newport News was not disrespectful to VCDL. Mayor Frank was not very effective in responding to the speakers. He clearly states that he will not resign from the group. Me thinks that a more in your face approach, a la JPFO style handbills and Long gun open carry at council meetings may be required.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Thundar wrote:
    At least Newport News was not disrespectful to VCDL. Mayor Frank was not very effective in responding to the speakers. He clearly states that he will not resign from the group. Me thinks that a more in your face approach, a la JPFO style handbills and Long gun open carry at council meetings may be required.
    See John's remarks on this from another thread:

    "Here at OCDO, we are focused on the open carry of HANDGUNS for personal protection as one goes about their daily lives. Thanks to the tireless and dedicated efforts of VCDL and individual open carry advocates many of whom are members here, anymore, an open carry rally in Virginia featuring citizens wearing their personal protection firearms is practically a non-event (Ed's litter pickups are a great example!). Add rifles to the mix however, and it changes the entire perception."

    We must constantly weigh what might be gained against what might be lost.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  7. #7
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    2a4all wrote:
    On Dec 8, 2009, VCDL EM Ron Lily and myself addressed the Newport News CIty Council and expressed our concerns about Mayor Joe Frank's involvement with this organization.

    Ron & I were the 3rd & 4th speakers respectively. Hizzoner responded after we both spoke, and it appears that we hit a nerve.

    The city video of the meeting is on line at

    http://newportnews.granicus.com/Medi...mp;clip_id=619

    Scroll down the agenda page to Item H, and the video will (at least it did for me) fast-fwd to the 1st speaker.

    You might also find the last speaker interesting. She is the mother of a young man shot and killed by a NNPD Officer in 2007, with whom the city reached a settllement in a wrongful death suit, but retained the officer on the NNPD.
    Can you summarize for us? What was the overall reaction?

    Yata hey
    Very well done!

    I'm putting the clips on as soon as I get the edited and personal information cut out. The first is on my site now. May take aq few seconds to load since Blue Hosst is throttling the CPU (Im' looking for a new host now.)
    http://news.oldva.org/blogroll/vcdl-...-organization/

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    I'm sure that I'm not the only one to notice that in fankie's response he mentions that he doen't have a problem with "properly registered" guns. [and owners]



    that tells any objective observer all that he needs to know.



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    6L6GC wrote:
    I'm sure that I'm not the only one to notice that in fankie's response he mentions that he doen't have a problem with "properly registered" guns. [and owners]



    that tells any objective observer all that he needs to know.

    We are all properly registered.

    The Commonwealth of VA in its wisdom has deemed registration as not being necessary. Thus, we are all properly registered by not being registered... in accordance with the Laws of the Commonwealth.

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    We got some press!

    Check this out!

    http://newportnewspolitics.wordpress.com/
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    peter nap wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    2a4all wrote:
    On Dec 8, 2009, VCDL EM Ron Lily and myself addressed the Newport News CIty Council and expressed our concerns about Mayor Joe Frank's involvement with this organization.

    Ron & I were the 3rd & 4th speakers respectively. Hizzoner responded after we both spoke, and it appears that we hit a nerve.

    The city video of the meeting is on line at

    http://newportnews.granicus.com/Medi...mp;clip_id=619

    Scroll down the agenda page to Item H, and the video will (at least it did for me) fast-fwd to the 1st speaker.

    You might also find the last speaker interesting. She is the mother of a young man shot and killed by a NNPD Officer in 2007, with whom the city reached a settllement in a wrongful death suit, but retained the officer on the NNPD.
    Can you summarize for us? What was the overall reaction?

    Yata hey
    Very well done!

    I'm putting the clips on as soon as I get the edited and personal information cut out. The first is on my site now. May take aq few seconds to load since Blue Hosst is throttling the CPU (Im' looking for a new host now.)
    http://news.oldva.org/blogroll/vcdl-...-organization/
    Had to stop watching because of the background noise. With proper tweaking, you can record soundcard-to-soundcard instead of using a microphone to speaker.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    N6ATF wrote:
    peter nap wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    2a4all wrote:
    On Dec 8, 2009, VCDL EM Ron Lily and myself addressed the Newport News CIty Council and expressed our concerns about Mayor Joe Frank's involvement with this organization.

    Ron & I were the 3rd & 4th speakers respectively. Hizzoner responded after we both spoke, and it appears that we hit a nerve.

    The city video of the meeting is on line at

    http://newportnews.granicus.com/Medi...mp;clip_id=619

    Scroll down the agenda page to Item H, and the video will (at least it did for me) fast-fwd to the 1st speaker.

    You might also find the last speaker interesting. She is the mother of a young man shot and killed by a NNPD Officer in 2007, with whom the city reached a settllement in a wrongful death suit, but retained the officer on the NNPD.
    Can you summarize for us? What was the overall reaction?

    Yata hey
    Very well done!

    I'm putting the clips on as soon as I get the edited and personal information cut out. The first is on my site now. May take aq few seconds to load since Blue Hosst is throttling the CPU (Im' looking for a new host now.)
    http://news.oldva.org/blogroll/vcdl-...-organization/
    Had to stop watching because of the background noise. With proper tweaking, you can record soundcard-to-soundcard instead of using a microphone to speaker.
    That was sound card to soundcard.
    It was straight off of the stream into an AVI file, to Ulead where the personal information was clipped, to a WSM, to You Tube.

    Don't know where the noise came from but I just reprocessed in Ulead and it's not in these.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    peter nap wrote:
    That was sound card to soundcard.
    Or was it soundcard to sound card? :P

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  14. #14
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    peter nap wrote:
    That was sound card to soundcard.
    Or was it soundcard to sound card? :P

    Yata hey
    Whadda expect at 3:30 AM:P

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    At least Newport News was not disrespectful to VCDL. Mayor Frank was not very effective in responding to the speakers. He clearly states that he will not resign from the group. Me thinks that a more in your face approach, a la JPFO style handbills and Long gun open carry at council meetings may be required.
    See John's remarks on this from another thread:

    "Here at OCDO, we are focused on the open carry of HANDGUNS for personal protection as one goes about their daily lives. Thanks to the tireless and dedicated efforts of VCDL and individual open carry advocates many of whom are members here, anymore, an open carry rally in Virginia featuring citizens wearing their personal protection firearms is practically a non-event (Ed's litter pickups are a great example!). Add rifles to the mix however, and it changes the entire perception."

    We must constantly weigh what might be gained against what might be lost.

    Yata hey
    Well I just don't see your point about what might be lost.

    Rifles and shotguns are just one more step in the normalization of firearms. Frankly the concerns about reprecussions for legal activity are just bunk. The incoming legislature and governor are very pro gun.

    Wait, there is something in the OCDO Motto that indicates what might be lost....

    "a right unexercised is a right lost"

    Live Free or Die,

    Thundar
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    It is a public relations game.

    24 + people carrying evil black rifles with red dots, standing around the perimeter of council chambers wearing black BDUs is not illegal and is exercising a right but it will viewed by way too many as negative.

    The idea is to pick and chose how and when we express this right with the goal of advancing our views, not setting them back.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    It is a public relations game.

    24 + people carrying evil black rifles with red dots, standing around the perimeter of council chambers wearing black BDUs is not illegal and is exercising a right but it will viewed by way too many as negative.

    The idea is to pick and chose how and when we express this right with the goal of advancing our views, not setting them back.

    Yata hey
    How can we normalize the presence of rifles and shotguns if we are afraid to carry them?
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    It is a public relations game.

    24 + people carrying evil black rifles with red dots, standing around the perimeter of council chambers wearing black BDUs is not illegal and is exercising a right but it will viewed by way too many as negative.

    The idea is to pick and chose how and when we express this right with the goal of advancing our views, not setting them back.

    Yata hey
    Black BDUs are a fashion disaster that I would consider negative. Besides wearing black BDUs, might lead to mistaking our identity as BATFE JBTs. I can see nothing which could be construed as negative with the rest of your description. Please elaborate.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Thundar wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    It is a public relations game.

    24 + people carrying evil black rifles with red dots, standing around the perimeter of council chambers wearing black BDUs is not illegal and is exercising a right but it will viewed by way too many as negative.

    The idea is to pick and chose how and when we express this right with the goal of advancing our views, not setting them back.

    Yata hey
    Black BDUs are a fashion disaster that I would consider negative. Besides wearing black BDUs, might lead to mistaking our identity as BATFE JBTs. I can see nothing which could be construed as negative with the rest of your description. Please elaborate.
    Black BDUs might get you mistaken for the LEOs SWAT, oh no, that wouldn't be a negative would it? Maybe black bdus with big yellow or international orange VCDL or VA 2nd. Hmmm just a thought.
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

    excerpt By Marko Kloos (http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/?s=major+caudill)

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Thundar wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    It is a public relations game.

    24 + people carrying evil black rifles with red dots, standing around the perimeter of council chambers wearing black BDUs is not illegal and is exercising a right but it will viewed by way too many as negative.

    The idea is to pick and chose how and when we express this right with the goal of advancing our views, not setting them back.

    Yata hey
    Black BDUs are a fashion disaster that I would consider negative. Besides wearing black BDUs, might lead to mistaking our identity as BATFE JBTs. I can see nothing which could be construed as negative with the rest of your description. Please elaborate.
    Hardly necessary - we both understand of what the other speaks.

    You all have fun - I haven't had my lunch yet - bye.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    As John stated earlier on another thread, pistols are widely recognized and accepted as defensive weapons while long guns are nearly ALWAYS associated with offensive action. It really IS all about public perception. We can make a difference if we "pick our battles" and fight them wisely using the correct "weapons" to complete the task at hand...

    The carrying of a long gun, especially an EBR or AK variant scares the livinchit out of Joe Schmoe, his Soccer-Mom spousal unit and their brainwashed spawn. It truly is about perception. It is fareasier to have a conversation with someone about 2A and self-protection while carrying a holstered pistol than it is with a long gun slung over your shoulder that swings freely and must be touched and moved around in order toperform even themost simpletasks.

    Those of us that have carried long guns on duty know you are CONSTANTLY adjusting SOMETHING on your rifle or sling. The "touching" of the weapon is bound to upset someone. Whatare Sheep likely to do when they see you exit your vehicle, remove an AK from your backseat, sling it comfortably over your shoulder and stroll into the grocery store? I'm willing to guess you're going to get a LOT of attention. If you're profoundly interested in "testing" the reaction time of your county (or city) SWAT unit, go for it! You may not have the same reaction at WallyWorld or Bass Pro because they sell long guns.

    As stated previously, it is more detrimental to our cause than not... If you intention is to sabotage the "OC Movement", then go right ahead. I don't think you could do a more effective job than the knucklehead that shot at the ducks at the waterfront bar or the character in LousyAnna that was an avid poster to OCDO that was always "looking for a clean kill" until he got his wish,only it wasn't so clean. It was murder with drug charges thrown in for good measure.

    Great plan... NOT!!!
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    As John stated earlier on another thread, pistols are widely recognized and accepted as defensive weapons while long guns are nearly ALWAYS associated with offensive action. It really IS all about public perception. We can make a difference if we "pick our battles" and fight them wisely using the correct "weapons" to complete the task at hand...

    The carrying of a long gun, especially an EBR or AK variant scares the livinchit out of Joe Schmoe, his Soccer-Mom spousal unit and their brainwashed spawn. It truly is about perception. It is fareasier to have a conversation with someone about 2A and self-protection while carrying a holstered pistol than it is with a long gun slung over your shoulder that swings freely and must be touched and moved around in order toperform even themost simpletasks.

    Those of us that have carried long guns on duty know you are CONSTANTLY adjusting SOMETHING on your rifle or sling. The "touching" of the weapon is bound to upset someone. Whatare Sheep likely to do when they see you exit your vehicle, remove an AK from your backseat, sling it comfortably over your shoulder and stroll into the grocery store? I'm willing to guess you're going to get a LOT of attention. If you're profoundly interested in "testing" the reaction time of your county (or city) SWAT unit, go for it! You may not have the same reaction at WallyWorld or Bass Pro because they sell long guns.

    As stated previously, it is more detrimental to our cause than not... If you intention is to sabotage the "OC Movement", then go right ahead. I don't think you could do a more effective job than the knucklehead that shot at the ducks at the waterfront bar or the character in LousyAnna that was an avid poster to OCDO that was always "looking for a clean kill" until he got his wish,only it wasn't so clean. It was murder with drug charges thrown in for good measure.

    Great plan... NOT!!!
    My take on it and I expect I carry a rifle (as in have one with me) more than most on this board, is that it is all in perception.

    There is a great deal of difference between free speech, and trying to start a fight. You're perfectly right to do either, but if you want to exercise a right, speak in terms that the opposition will at least listen to. Using phrases like "I'll kick your ass" will either start a fight or alienate the opposition....oe both.

    The same with carrying a rifle. There are times and places where it is accepted, but other times, it looks like you're just daring someone to knock that chip off of your shoulder.

  23. #23
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    peter nap wrote:
    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    As John stated earlier on another thread, pistols are widely recognized and accepted as defensive weapons while long guns are nearly ALWAYS associated with offensive action. It really IS all about public perception. We can make a difference if we "pick our battles" and fight them wisely using the correct "weapons" to complete the task at hand...

    The carrying of a long gun, especially an EBR or AK variant scares the livinchit out of Joe Schmoe, his Soccer-Mom spousal unit and their brainwashed spawn. It truly is about perception. It is fareasier to have a conversation with someone about 2A and self-protection while carrying a holstered pistol than it is with a long gun slung over your shoulder that swings freely and must be touched and moved around in order toperform even themost simpletasks.

    Those of us that have carried long guns on duty know you are CONSTANTLY adjusting SOMETHING on your rifle or sling. The "touching" of the weapon is bound to upset someone. Whatare Sheep likely to do when they see you exit your vehicle, remove an AK from your backseat, sling it comfortably over your shoulder and stroll into the grocery store? I'm willing to guess you're going to get a LOT of attention. If you're profoundly interested in "testing" the reaction time of your county (or city) SWAT unit, go for it! You may not have the same reaction at WallyWorld or Bass Pro because they sell long guns.

    As stated previously, it is more detrimental to our cause than not... If you intention is to sabotage the "OC Movement", then go right ahead. I don't think you could do a more effective job than the knucklehead that shot at the ducks at the waterfront bar or the character in LousyAnna that was an avid poster to OCDO that was always "looking for a clean kill" until he got his wish,only it wasn't so clean. It was murder with drug charges thrown in for good measure.

    Great plan... NOT!!!
    My take on it and I expect I carry a rifle (as in have one with me) more than most on this board, is that it is all in perception.

    There is a great deal of difference between free speech, and trying to start a fight. You're perfectly right to do either, but if you want to exercise a right, speak in terms that the opposition will at least listen to. Using phrases like "I'll kick your ass" will either start a fight or alienate the opposition....oe both.

    The same with carrying a rifle. There are times and places where it is accepted, but other times, it looks like you're just daring someone to knock that chip off of your shoulder.
    Sorry... got carried away with my red crayon...
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  24. #24
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    peter nap wrote:
    MSC 45ACP wrote:
    As John stated earlier on another thread, pistols are widely recognized and accepted as defensive weapons while long guns are nearly ALWAYS associated with offensive action. It really IS all about public perception. We can make a difference if we "pick our battles" and fight them wisely using the correct "weapons" to complete the task at hand...

    The carrying of a long gun, especially an EBR or AK variant scares the livinchit out of Joe Schmoe, his Soccer-Mom spousal unit and their brainwashed spawn. It truly is about perception. It is fareasier to have a conversation with someone about 2A and self-protection while carrying a holstered pistol than it is with a long gun slung over your shoulder that swings freely and must be touched and moved around in order toperform even themost simpletasks.

    Those of us that have carried long guns on duty know you are CONSTANTLY adjusting SOMETHING on your rifle or sling. The "touching" of the weapon is bound to upset someone. Whatare Sheep likely to do when they see you exit your vehicle, remove an AK from your backseat, sling it comfortably over your shoulder and stroll into the grocery store? I'm willing to guess you're going to get a LOT of attention. If you're profoundly interested in "testing" the reaction time of your county (or city) SWAT unit, go for it! You may not have the same reaction at WallyWorld or Bass Pro because they sell long guns.

    As stated previously, it is more detrimental to our cause than not... If you intention is to sabotage the "OC Movement", then go right ahead. I don't think you could do a more effective job than the knucklehead that shot at the ducks at the waterfront bar or the character in LousyAnna that was an avid poster to OCDO that was always "looking for a clean kill" until he got his wish,only it wasn't so clean. It was murder with drug charges thrown in for good measure.

    Great plan... NOT!!!
    My take on it and I expect I carry a rifle (as in have one with me) more than most on this board, is that it is all in perception.

    There is a great deal of difference between free speech, and trying to start a fight. You're perfectly right to do either, but if you want to exercise a right, speak in terms that the opposition will at least listen to. Using phrases like "I'll kick your ass" will either start a fight or alienate the opposition....oe both.

    The same with carrying a rifle. There are times and places where it is accepted, but other times, it looks like you're just daring someone to knock that chip off of your shoulder.
    Sorry... got carried away with my red crayon...
    I wass just giving the Redneck Condensed version

  25. #25
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    OK now that most of the choir is on the same page, who's gonna sing bass tonight? Sopranos will have to sit this one out. :P

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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