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Thread: Good....interesting CC expeirence

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    I recently was a patron with a group of friends at a local bowling alley in Bellevue and we went to one of their later midnight bowling sessions. i have always CC'd at that location and never has it been posted any prohibition of guns. there is always a police officer that posts up at the alley during the night sessions because it is frequented with many younger kids who can't go out "bar hoping" and there have been a few problems in the past with fights etc....

    anyways,

    i was enjoying my night as usual and other then my normal t-shirt covering my full size Ruger P-90 on my hip. now as most of you know it is very difficult to bowl and not have your shirt rise up, and in my case show a nice glisten of stainless...now the Kirkland Police officer immediately noticed the firearm and kept a very close eye on my the whole night but never bothered me about it...until i went to leave.

    i thought i was in for it when he pulled me aside. he just told me "you should try to conceal that a little better" and didn't check a permit or run any serial numbers.

    so it was a good expeirence over all

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    Regular Member OrangeIsTrouble's Avatar
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    Boooo!!!! Boooo!!!

    This is OPEN CARRY.org

    Not Hideyourarms.org!!!

    Booo!! Get off the stage!!


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    Shoulda said, "I don't have to!"

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    Sounds to me like he was following his training bulletin and the laws and was just giving friendly advice as it was obvious the OP was CC'ing his pistol.
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    Regular Member HeesBonafide's Avatar
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    Thanks for sharing. Since you were CC'ing, sounds like he was offering to let you know that while you may not want others to know, he noticed.

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    Regular Member SpyderTattoo's Avatar
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    He should know that OC is legal and should not have said anything. So what if you're CC'ing and it pops out?
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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    You are concealing a firearm, and IMO the officer has every reason/right to ask for a permit if a concealed firearm is present.

    I see it as a friendly gesture, not something done to bust your balls...
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    Regular Member SpyderTattoo's Avatar
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    He had the right to ask about the CPL, but he didn't... So what was the purpose? If he had no intention of checking CPL he should have left you alone. Sure he thought he was offering friendly advice, but there was really no point in it.
    Certified Glock Armorer

    "A government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen..." -- Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. App.181)

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    SpyderTattoo wrote:
    He had the right to ask about the CPL, but he didn't... So what was the purpose? If he had no intention of checking CPL he should have left you alone. Sure he thought he was offering friendly advice, but there was really no point in it.
    Seemed to me it was just that, friendly advice, a consensual encounter.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    SpyderTattoo wrote:
    He should know that OC is legal and should not have said anything. So what if you're CC'ing and it pops out?
    I agree but the officer probably was just trying to help.

    I would have used it as an education moment.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Dr. Fresh wrote:
    Seemed to me it was just that, friendly advice, a consensual encounter.
    Yes, seems like friendly advice to me....a nice gesture, even. Seems more along the lines of "If you're trying to hide that, you need to try a little harder, because it's not working" rather than "You need to cover that."

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    TechnoWeenie wrote:
    You are concealing a firearm, and IMO the officer has every reason/right to ask for a permit if a concealed firearm is present.
    I agree that it sounds like he was just being helpful.

    However, could someone explain why exactly the officer has a right to ask for a CPL if he or she knows you are carrying a concealed pistol. Is it not true that asking for a CPL would fall under a Terry stop, in which case there must be RAS that a crime is being committed? If it doesn't fall under Terry, why not? You are being detained and asked to provide documentation. I

    If the mere fact of carrying a firearm is not probable cause to detain under Terry, then why should the fact that it is concealed trigger RAS that a crime is being committed?

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    heresolong wrote:
    TechnoWeenie wrote:
    You are concealing a firearm, and IMO the officer has every reason/right to ask for a permit if a concealed firearm is present.
    I agree that it sounds like he was just being helpful.

    However, could someone explain why exactly the officer has a right to ask for a CPL if he or she knows you are carrying a concealed pistol. Is it not true that asking for a CPL would fall under a Terry stop, in which case there must be RAS that a crime is being committed? If it doesn't fall under Terry, why not? You are being detained and asked to provide documentation. I

    If the mere fact of carrying a firearm is not probable cause to detain under Terry, then why should the fact that it is concealed trigger RAS that a crime is being committed?
    The law states that you must show a CPL on demand to any LEO when required by law to do so, such as carrying a concealed pistol. Until someone challenges this on constitutional grounds (and it'd be a hard case to win, IMO, but not impossible), an officer who knows you are concealing a pistol may request to see your license. The RAS in this case, if one is needed, is that it is a crime to conceal without a license to do so, and you exposed that you were concealing. It's weak, but possible that a reasonable person might think you're carrying illegally.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    ....but that makes an assumption you are carrying illegally.

    ...like pulling you over because the officer sees you have a dog in the car and wants to see if its liscensed.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    NavyLT wrote:
    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    ....but that makes an assumption you are carrying illegally.

    ...like pulling you over because the officer sees you have a dog in the car and wants to see if its liscensed.
    Does a dog need a license to drive a car?
    LOL....don't know...but just reffering to the fact because in most counties I know you are required to license your dog. So does an officer seeing you driving with your dog have RAS to pull you over and check your dog license.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    American Rattlesnake wrote:
    Dr. Fresh wrote:
    Seemed to me it was just that, friendly advice, a consensual encounter.
    Yes, seems like friendly advice to me....a nice gesture, even. Seems more along the lines of "If you're trying to hide that, you need to try a little harder, because it's not working" rather than "You need to cover that."
    I agree sounds like friendly advice. Cops are just normal people like us and look how often we puke our friendly advice into each others faces. BTW, what is Terry stop?
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

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  17. #17
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    amzbrady wrote:
    American Rattlesnake wrote:
    Dr. Fresh wrote:
    Seemed to me it was just that, friendly advice, a consensual encounter.
    Yes, seems like friendly advice to me....a nice gesture, even. Seems more along the lines of "If you're trying to hide that, you need to try a little harder, because it's not working" rather than "You need to cover that."
    I agree sounds like friendly advice. Cops are just normal people like us and look how often we puke our friendly advice into each others faces. BTW, what is Terry stop?
    Terry vs Ohio
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  18. #18
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    is there a link?


    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    amzbrady wrote:
    is there a link?

    I saw this today, and I can't wait to try it out:

    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Terry+v.+Ohio

  20. #20
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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