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Thread: so i have a question again...

  1. #1
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    so you have to be 21 to buy a hand gun i got that part when i was a toddler. so why is the minimum to carry 18 if you wer 18 and ocing to me that says that it is not your gun. so how is that legal?

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    You have to by FEDERAL law be 21 to receive a handgun from a DEALER. For OWNING a handgun its be 18, or an emancipated minor on your own property.

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    dkefn33 wrote:
    so you have to be 21 to buy a hand gun i got that part when i was a toddler.* so why is the minimum to carry 18 if you wer 18 and ocing to me that says that it is not your gun.* so how is that legal?
    Because this is the only law that covers possession. Possession is different than owning. Unless someone can find a law that says something different.

    14‑269.7. Prohibitions on handguns for minors.
    (a) Any minor who possesses or carries a handgun is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor.
    (b) This section does not apply:
    (1) To officers and enlisted personnel of the armed forces of the United States when in discharge of their official duties or acting under orders requiring them to carry handguns.
    (2) To a minor who possesses a handgun for educational or recreational purposes while the minor is supervised by an adult who is present.
    (3) To an emancipated minor who possesses such handgun inside his or her residence.
    (4) To a minor who possesses a handgun while hunting or trapping outside the limits of an incorporated municipality if he has on his person written permission from a parent, guardian, or other person standing in loco parentis.
    (c) The following definitions apply in this section:
    (1) Handgun. – A firearm that has a short stock and is designed to be fired by the use of a single hand, or any combination of parts from which such a firearm can be assembled.
    (2) Minor. – Any person under 18 years of age. (1993, c. 259, s. 1; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 14, s. 5; 1993 (Reg. Sess., 1994), c. 597, s. 1.)

    http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedL..._14-269.7.html

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    ok so what if my brother carries my gun around? and lets assume he is convited of simple assault then what? i have not read anything about that. i know he can not purchase or get a ccw but it doesnt say he can not oc.

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    You can only possses if legally allowed to.

    If you aren't able to purchase or obtain a CHP, then I would doubt you are allowed to OC a firearm that isn't yours.

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    Not trying to high jack the thread. But say your 18 and you are gifted a handgun, therefor if there are no local laws saying you can't OC then it's legal correct? I think thats waht the OP was trying to say. You can't buy if from a FFL if your not 21 but you can still be in possession of a gun that was gifted to you. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I read over the laws over and over and that what it sounds like to me.

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    Under NC law, you cannot just simply be "gifted" a handgun. The recipient MUST go to the local Sheriff and obtain a Pistol Purchase Permit, and then hand that permit to the to the original owner when the transfer occurs.

    This goes for ALL transfers of ownership of handguns from one person to another, EVEN if they are blood relatives, be it father to son, sibling to sibling, or any other transfer. Even if no money is exchanged--EVEN if it's a "gift". If the "ownership" of the handgun is officially changed, a Pistol Purchase Permit must change hands when the gun changes hands...
    NCGC §14-402 Sale of certain weapons without permit forbidden.

    (a) It shall be unlawful for any person, firm, or corporation in this State to sell, give away, or transfer, or to purchase or receive, at any place within this State from any other place within or without the State any pistol or crossbow unless a license or permit therefor has first been obtained by the purchaser or receiver from the sheriff of the county in which that purchaser or receiver resides.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggressionand this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    originally i was just wondering if he could oc even with a viloent conviction b/c there is no law that says he cant i know he it says he can not conceal it but doesnt say he can not oc, also i was waning to know what if his wife bought a gun but let him oc? and they are legally married

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    If he is prohibited from purchasing or possessing a firearm by Federal law, then ownership of a firearm in NC is also not legal, because to get a purchase permit, he'd have to NOT be a "prohibited person".
    NCGC §14-415.14. Application form to be provided by sheriff; information to be included in application form.

    (b) The permit application shall also contain a warning substantially as follows: "CAUTION: Federal law and State law on the possession of handguns and firearms differ. If you are prohibited by federal law from possessing a handgun or a firearm, you may be prosecuted in federal court. A State permit is not a defense to a federal prosecution."
    Now with regards to the nature of your friend's "violent conviction", you need to be a LOT more specific. Was it a felony? Was it a domestic violence conviction? Was it a "hate crime"? or did he slap someone in the face in a bar scuffle? The nature of his crime and conviction determine whether or not he is a "prohibited person"...
    NCGC §14-415.1 Possession of firearms, etc., by felon prohibited.

    (a) It shall be unlawful for any person who has been convicted of a felony to purchase, own, possess, or have in his custody, care, or control any handgun or other firearm with a barrel length of less than 18 inches or an overall length of less than 26 inches, or any weapon of mass death and destruction as defined in G.S. 14-288.8(c). Every person violating the provisions of this section shall be punished as a Class G felon. Nothing in this subsection would prohibit the right of any person to have possession of a firearm within his own home or on his lawful place of business.

    (b) Prior convictions which cause disentitlement under this section shall only include:
    (1) Felony convictions in North Carolina that occur before, on, or after December 1, 1995; and
    (2) [repealed]
    (3) Violations of criminal laws of other states or of the United States that occur before, on, or after December 1, 1995, and that are substantially similar to the crimes covered in subdivision (1) which are punishable where committed by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year. When a person is charged under this section, records of prior convictions of any offense, whether in the courts of this State, or in the courts of any other state or of the United States, shall be admissible in evidence for the purpose of proving a violation of this section. The term "conviction" is defined as a final judgment in any case in which felony punishment, or imprisonment for a term exceeding one year, as the case may be, is permissible, without regard to the plea entered or to the sentence imposed. A judgment of a conviction of the defendant or a plea of guilty by the defendant to such an offense certified to a superior court of this State from the custodian of records of any state or federal court shall be prima facie evidence of the facts so certified.
    (c) The indictment charging the defendant under the terms of this section shall be separate from any indictment charging him with other offenses related to or giving rise to a charge under this section. An indictment which charges the person with violation of this section must set forth the date that the prior offense was committed, the type of offense and the penalty therefore, and the date that the defendant was convicted or plead guilty to such offense, the identity of the court in which the conviction or plea of guilty took place and the verdict and judgment rendered therein.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggressionand this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    dkefn33 wrote:
    originally i was just wondering if he could oc even with a viloent conviction b/c there is no law that says he cant i know he it says he can not conceal it but doesnt say he can not oc, also i was waning to know what if his wife bought a gun but let him oc? and they are legally married
    I hate doing the wiki reference, but it's a start. They need to look and make sure it's not a prohibited purchase as a straw purchase. It's a felon for both parties if it is a straw purchase.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_purchase

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    If he cannot purchase from a dealer, secure a pistol purchase permit from his sheriff, or is otherwise prohibited from purchasing or possessing under NC law, then he most likely can't OC.

    OCing implies possession (although not necessarily ownership) and if he can't own, in almost all cases, he can't possess either. But that depends on the nature of his "violent conviction".

    If he is a "prohibited person", then his wife could be guilty of a misdemeanor or felony (depending on his conviction) for letting him come into possession of a handgun.

    Again, WHAT exactly was his conviction for? Was it simple assault, felony assault, what was it, EXACTLY?

    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggressionand this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    conviction was assault on a female.

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    Misdemeanor Assaults (NCGC §14-33)

    b. ... any person who commits any assault, assault and battery, ... [is] punishable ... if:
    1. Inflicts or attempts to inflict serious injury ... or uses a deadly weapon; or
    2. Assaults a female, he being a male ... at least 18 years of age; or
    3. Assaults a child under ... 12 years; or
    4. Assaults a law-enforcement officer, ... or
    5. Assaults an officer of the ... Court ...
    6. Assaults a school administrator, school teacher, substitute teacher, teacher's aide, ...
    Classification: a) Class 2 Misdemeanor ($50 or 30 days); b) Misdemeanor (two years and/or fine)

    However, I can't find in the list of disqualifying offenses, a reference to §14-33 offenses. However, if he was also convicted of "communicating threats" or a "breach of peace" which often include assault charges, he WOULD be disqualified from possessing a firearm under NC law..

    DISQUALIFYING CRIMINAL OFFENSES PURSUANT
    TO N.C.G.S. § 14-415.12(b)(8)
    An individual who has been adjudicated guilty of, or received a prayer for Judgment Continued, or suspended sentence for offenses constituting a misdemeanor under the following specific statutes, or any other crime of violence, is disqualified from obtaining a permit to carry a concealed handgun:
    1. Harassment of and unauthorized communication with jurors (N.C.G.S. § 14-225.2).
    2. Violation of court orders (N.C.G.S. § 14-226.1).
    3. Furnishing poison, controlled substances, deadly weapons, cartridges, ammunition or alcoholic beverages to inmates of charitable, mental or penal institutions, or local confinement facilities (N.C.G.S. § 14-258.1).
    4. Carrying weapons on campus or other educational property (N.C.G.S.§ 14-269.2).
    5. Carrying weapons into assemblies and establishments where alcoholic beverages are sold and/or consumed (N.C.G.S. § 14-269.3).
    6. Carry weapons on state property and courthouses (N.C.G.S. § 14-269.4).
    7. Possession and/or sale of spring-loaded projectile knives (N.C.G.S. § 14-269.6).
    8. Impersonation of a firemen or emergency medical services personnel (N.C.G.S. § 14-276.1).
    9. Impersonation of a law enforcement or other public officer (N.C.G.S. § 14-277).
    10. Communicating threats (N.C.G.S. 6 14-277.1).
    11. Carry weapons at parades and other public gatherings (N.C.G.S. § 14-277.2).
    12. Stalking (N.C.G.S. § 14-277.3).
    13. Throwing or dropping objects at sporting events (N.C.G.S. § 14-281.1).
    14. Exploding dynamite cartridges and/or bombs (N.C.G.S. § 14-283).
    15. Rioting and inciting to riot (N.C.G.S. § 14-288.2).
    16. Fighting or conduct creating the threat of imminent fighting or other violence (N.C.G.S. §14-288.4(a)(1)).
    17. Making or using any utterance, gesture, display or abusive language which is intended and plainly likely to provoke violent retaliation, and thereby create a breach of peace (N.C.G.S. §14-288.4(a)(2)).
    18. Looting and trespassing during an emergency (N.C.G.S. § 14-288.6).
    19. Assault on emergency personnel (N.C.G.S. § 14-288.9).
    20. Violations of city State of Emergency Ordinances (N.C.G.S. § 14-288.12).
    21. Violations of county State of Emergency Ordinances (N.C.G.S. § 14-288.13).
    22. Violations of State of Emergency Ordinances (N.C.G.S. § 14-288.14).
    23. Child abuse (N.C.G.S. § 14-318.2).
    24. Violations of the standards for carrying a concealed weapon (N.C.G.S. § 14-415.21(b)).
    25. Misrepresentation on certification of qualified retired law enforcement officers (N.C.G.S. §14-415.26).
    26. Any crime of violence found in Chapter 14, Article 8 of the North Carolina General Statutes.

    I'd suggest contacting a lawyer...

    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggressionand this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    yea it says from carrying concealed i know that but it doesnt say u can not open carry its kind of a grey area. and the conviction was considered an infraction what ever that means and it was assault on a female.

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    dkefn33 wrote:
    yea it says from carrying concealed i know that but it doesnt say u can not open carry its kind of a grey area. and the conviction was considered an infraction what ever that means and it was assault on a female.
    Ignore the CC for now. What you need to find out is if he can own a firearm. If he is over 21 and unable to purchase a handgun I would not suggest he try to OC. If he cannot purchase it his wife should not purchase it for him, that's illegal as well. I would assume that if you are over 21 and cannot purchase then you cannot possess as well. That's just an assumption on my part. For a definite answer I would contact a lawyer. You could try to contact the NC AG, but I have not heard of any real answers coming from them. Regardless, I would not tell him to OC until he has a straight answer from someone with more knowledge than you will get here. Good luck.

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    If the assault was a domestic violence charge, then he cannot even touch a firearm.

    Now here is the kicker, there are past court rulings that hold that even if DV isnt actually charged and it is just charged as an assault, if the people live together then that STILL qualifies under Lautenberg.

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    Dreamer--one small, but potentially relevant change in the statute as of a few years ago is the possession in one's own home/workplace. The revised statute does not allow for such an exception. This was pulled from NCGS website today:

    § 14‑415.1. Possession of firearms, etc., by felon prohibited.
    (a) It shall be unlawful for any person who has been convicted of a felony to purchase, own, possess, or have in his custody, care, or control any firearm or any weapon of mass death and destruction as defined in G.S. 14‑288.8(c). For the purposes of this section, a firearm is (i) any weapon, including a starter gun, which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive, or its frame or receiver, or (ii) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer. This section does not apply to an antique firearm, as defined in G.S. 14‑409.11.
    Every person violating the provisions of this section shall be punished as a Class G felon.
    (b) Prior convictions which cause disentitlement under this section shall only include:
    (1) Felony convictions in North Carolina that occur before, on, or after December 1, 1995; and
    (2) Repealed by Session Laws 1995, c. 487, s. 3, effective December 1, 1995.
    (3) Violations of criminal laws of other states or of the United States that occur before, on, or after December 1, 1995, and that are substantially similar to the crimes covered in subdivision (1) which are punishable where committed by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year.
    When a person is charged under this section, records of prior convictions of any offense, whether in the courts of this State, or in the courts of any other state or of the United States, shall be admissible in evidence for the purpose of proving a violation of this section. The term "conviction" is defined as a final judgment in any case in which felony punishment, or imprisonment for a term exceeding one year, as the case may be, is permissible, without regard to the plea entered or to the sentence imposed. A judgment of a conviction of the defendant or a plea of guilty by the defendant to such an offense certified to a superior court of this State from the custodian of records of any state or federal court shall be prima facie evidence of the facts so certified.


    Thus, it makes it illegal for anyone ever convicted of a felony to own or possess a firearm period, even if it is on their own property. So, for those of you who have a blemish on your record, you could be charged for protecting your own property. Don't get me wrong, I'm all about keeping firearms out of the wrong people's hands, but there are current law-abiding citizens that screwed up once in the past that cannot legally keep a firearm at their home (though, in some cases, expungement/pardoning and/or petitioning ATF for reinstatement of your right to bear arms may be pursued). I believe that change *may* have been made in the 2004 adjustments???

    Keep up the good reconnaissance! We all appreciate it!


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    LOL@ myself for saying "expungement" ... ehh... let's try... "expunction"

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    Dreamer wrote:
    Under NC law, you cannot just simply be "gifted" a handgun. The recipient MUST go to the local Sheriff and obtain a Pistol Purchase Permit, and then hand that permit to the to the original owner when the transfer occurs.

    This goes for ALL transfers of ownership of handguns from one person to another, EVEN if they are blood relatives, be it father to son, sibling to sibling, or any other transfer. Even if no money is exchanged--EVEN if it's a "gift". If the "ownership" of the handgun is officially changed, a Pistol Purchase Permit must change hands when the gun changes hands...
    NCGC §14-402 Sale of certain weapons without permit forbidden.

    (a) It shall be unlawful for any person, firm, or corporation in this State to sell, give away, or transfer, or to purchase or receive, at any place within this State from any other place within or without the State any pistol or crossbow unless a license or permit therefor has first been obtained by the purchaser or receiver from the sheriff of the county in which that purchaser or receiver resides.


    The interpretation that I got on this from the AG office when I called them about this a while back is that this is in place so that you do not sell your firearm to someone who is not eligible. Let's say you are selling to a stranger, they show you ID and a permit and you know they are legal. They only have to show you a valid pistol permit.

    Unless you have a CCH permit. In that case you can just show them thatin lieu of a purchase permit from the sheriff (I would make a copy for my own records).

    I would always recommend putting the serial number, date, model, etc on the permit or CCH copy you receive. This way if the gun ever comes back to you, you can show who it was transferred to.......

    My 2 cents.



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