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Thread: Ban Airsoft and realistic airguns.

  1. #1
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    About 2 hours ago I had someone pounding on my back door screaming for help. It;s the young female renter from the house behind mine.

    I roll outta bed, grab the .45, ask her to step over by the window so I can see who it is. I then let her in.

    She is hysterical saying that there is a gang on her street with machine guns shooting at each other and had shot out her front window. And she could see them waving guns around.

    So I get dressed, call up 911, and because the call came from my house they came to my house. Long story short it is most of the police dept all 3 of them.

    Long story short they want us both to come over to the neighbor's house. Sure enough the window is busted out, and there are silver balls everywhere.

    Well we can hear yelling and screaming up in the woods along with alot of F bombs, and all of a sudden out come 6-8 dark clothing figures with AK's and AR's. Every officer draws, including me. All of suspects are ordered to the ground, at gun point, all the guns are secured from them. 5 AK's 2 AR's and 7 various hand guns. All our shooters are teens from the neighborhood.

    Turns out it is the neighborhood kids out shooting screen doors and mail boxes with Automatic airsoft guns loaded with metal bb's. and the rifles are battery opperated full auto and powerful enough to dent and then punch holes in the side of tin mail boxes with the metal BB's.

    They all went into handcuffs or plasticuffs. And they all got to have their parents come meet the officers. The parents were not happy and were more then content to have the airsoft guns layed out on the street while the officer ran them over repeatedly til they were trash. Apparently those airsoft guns run $200+ for some of them. And ALL of these had the red tips removed or colored over with sharpie marker.

    What followed was a lecture on the fact that any or all of their kids could have been killed tonight and although it would have been a tragety it would have been justifyable. Teens shooting out windows dressed as ninjas, and presenting arrms at officers at a scene filled with 4 police cruisers with their light flashing. With what has happened recently in the news with officers being killed, tonight really put my adrenaline through the roof. To seen more then a half dozen figures emerge from the treeline accross the street and brandishing rifles was absolutely terrifying. And I have been at the end of a gun more then once in my life and it is something you never get over.

    In the end I got a thank you for the help and compliments on keeping my head, and that all of the officers felt good with the choice of bringing me along and were glad I hadn't come unarmed. In the end what made several of the teens immeadiatly comply they told us was that myself and one of the officers have lasers on our gns which were activated when the youths came outta the woods. Long story short they told us they realized that once you get a lock on them with the laser it doesn't matter where they run the bullet will find them so they just gave up. Thank you Hollywood.

    All 8 youths are looking a various charges that will be determined tomorrow. I have to go down and write a formal statement and report tomorrow.

    So right now the neighbor just left after having coffee with me and my girlfriend. She was really freaked out by the whole thing.


    Edited to add: When I got dressed I put on a Safriland Paddle with the Kimber right in plain sight. The officers never said a thing at my house and had no issue with me bringing it along holstered when we went over to the other street. All four knew it from standing talking with me inthe livingroom, and all complimented and were grateful I was armed when it was all over.



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    trofwa wrote:
    About 2 hours ago I had someone pounding on my back door screaming for help. It;s the young female renter from the house behind mine.

    I roll outta bed, grab the .45, ask her to step over by the window so I can see who it is. I then let her in.

    She is hysterical saying that there is a gang on her street with machine guns shooting at each other and had shot out her front window. And she could see them waving guns around.

    So I get dressed, call up 911, and because the call came from my house they came to my house. Long story short it is most of the police dept all 3 of them.

    Long story short they want us both to come over to the neighbor's house. Sure enough the window is busted out, and there are silver balls everywhere.

    Well we can hear yelling and screaming up in the woods along with alot of F bombs, and all of a sudden out come 6-8 dark clothing figures with AK's and AR's. Every officer draws, including me. All of suspects are ordered to the ground, at gun point, all the guns are secured from them. 5 AK's 2 AR's and 7 various hand guns. All our shooters are teens from the neighborhood.

    Turns out it is the neighborhood kids out shooting screen doors and mail boxes with Automatic airsoft guns loaded with metal bb's. and the rifles are battery opperated full auto and powerful enough to dent and then punch holes in the side of tin mail boxes with the metal BB's.

    They all went into handcuffs or plasticuffs. And they all got to have their parents come meet the officers. The parents were not happy and were more then content to have the airsoft guns layed out on the street while the officer ran them over repeatedly til they were trash. Apparently those airsoft guns run $200+ for some of them. And ALL of these had the red tips removed or colored over with sharpie marker.

    What followed was a lecture on the fact that any or all of their kids could have been killed tonight and although it would have been a tragety it would have been justifyable. Teens shooting out windows dressed as ninjas, and presenting arrms at officers at a scene filled with 4 police cruisers with their light flashing. With what has happened recently in the news with officers being killed, tonight really put my adrenaline through the roof. To seen more then a half dozen figures emerge from the treeline accross the street and brandishing rifles was absolutely terrifying. And I have been at the end of a gun more then once in my life and it is something you never get over.

    In the end I got a thank you for the help and compliments on keeping my head, and that all of the officers felt good with the choice of bringing me along and were glad I hadn't come unarmed. In the end what made several of the teens immeadiatly comply they told us was that myself and one of the officers have lasers on our gns which were activated when the youths came outta the woods. Long story short they told us they realized that once you get a lock on them with the laser it doesn't matter where they run the bullet will find them so they just gave up. Thank you Hollywood.

    All 8 youths are looking a various charges that will be determined tomorrow. I have to go down and write a formal statement and report tomorrow.

    So right now the neighbor just left after having coffee with me and my girlfriend. She was really freaked out by the whole thing.




    I hope your thread title was in jest, because nothing that these jackasses did justifies banning airsoft. Not any more than crime with real guns justifies gun control.

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    I did specify the "Realistic airguns" Meaning the copies of actual firearms that any ten year old can walk into Big 5 and buy. That was the intention.

    Yes you have the "Special People" that durocoat their actual AR15 to look like Hello Kitty, or Barbie or what ever. But I see No need for Truly realistic AK's and AR'15 that are blacked or realistically painted that moronic teens can buy.

    No Gun control isn't the answer. But saying you have to be 18 or 21 does put a road block or speed bump in front of the 8 neighborhood kids that go into the gun store.

    But on the other hand you have Airsoft guns that any kid whether 5 or 14 can legally buy, put batteries in spend $7 and buy metal ball bearing to run through it and be powerfull enough to punch holes in metal mail boxes.

    Would those same kids hold the same interest in this game of theirs if the guns were made of Orange, Red, Blue or Yellow plastic? Maybe maybe not.

    It's not perfect, it's not a perfect world, but I think getting rid of the Black realistic airsoft and airguns might save a kid's life somewhere.

    And no I will not engage in the flame war of "Well criminals will simply paint their real guns to look like toys" that isn't my point in this threat... Criminals will also walk into coffee houses and assassinate a group of officers, or try and take in the entire Seattle polie dept in a one man war.

    I am relating what happened and after tonight when you are faced with what appears to be 2 against 1 odds when you're holding a pistol against multiple long guns, maybe you'll think about it to. Those kids came within inches of dying. And had they not immediately complied I can't tell you or even want to try and guess the results.

    But I will say this, at 10:30pm at night under street lights I would have rather seen a bright orange rifle, or Bright Blue space gun looking rifle in ther hands then a Black exact copy of an AK or AR that appears and is made to appear to be the real thing.

    Like all the officers said, if those had been pointed at them you'd be planning several funerals and hospital visits not planning for grounding and loss of privileges.

    I had BB guns as a kid and I have trained with Airsoft before, and those Airsoft guns were CLEARLY painted and marked as non lethal.

    What possible reasonable reason is there for exact copies to be able to be put into the hands of homonial driven teens? Is a Orange Airsoft gun that much less fun to shoot?



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    And this is where I have to disagree. It's a federal offense to remove or modify the orange tip, so those kids are looking at a ton of crap for that alone. If you make them out of all orange plastic, all it takes is more black sharpie or a can of spray paint.

    No matter what you do, there's a way around it.
    Quote Originally Posted by SayWhat View Post

    Shooters before hooters.

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    Like I said it isn't perfect. But a Whole life size AR is alot harder to spray paint then the end cap. And you spraypaint one of those automatic ones from what I saw you're likely to muck up the working internals.

    So don't make exact copies then. why not keep them looking like paint ball guns, less realistic. Or don't market them. I see no need for exact copies of real guns to be sold out of every corner market and sporting good store or being sold to any kid that walks in with money.

    What can be done in this situation is being done. All the youths are facing charges.

    I am also not opposed to what the officers said tonight which was that the parents may also be held responsible since all the offenders were under 16years old. Parents need to pay more attention, and the youth of today need to be held accountable for their actions.

    If these 8 see detention I won't feel bad at all. If the parents lost $1600 because the guns were run over to bad, and if they are going to have to pay for all the damages, too bad. At least their kids are still around after such a gross act of stupidity. 5 of those parents didn't even know that their kids had bought the guns. Although 3 admitted giving them the money but not knowing what it was going to. All the gus were bought at the local Big 5 on a sale. And NONE of the parents were present when they were bought. Both the kids and the parents stated that. T

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    trofwa wrote:
    Like I said it isn't perfect. But a Whole life size AR is alot harder to spray paint then the end cap. And you spraypaint one of those automatic ones from what I saw you're likely to much up the working internals.

    So don't make exact copies then. why not keep them looking like paint ball guns, less realistic. Or don't market them. I see no need for exact copies of real guns to be sold out of every corner market and sporting good story.

    What can be done in this situation is being done. All the youths are facing charges.
    You know that nothing, and I mean NOTHING, will come of this. The kids were terrified tonight, and thats as bad as it's gonna be for em. The cops smashed the evidence.

    I will say that I do agree that the fakes are far too real these days. THis is how kids get killed. I say if the tip is modified then the kid deserves to be shot. If its not then the manufacturer should be held liable for damages, not the cops. If there were so accountability on their part, maybe they will stray away from the "real looking" guns.
    I am the person responsible for myself, my wife and my son. I take that VERY seriously.

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    Oh yes the guns were destroyed, although no longer working, they remain mostly in one piece, but they remain in police custody and were photo'd before being destroyed.

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    Or if the parents are gonna let them have realistic replicas, they should teach them some responsibility, like why it's a bad idea to run around a neighborhood shooting out windows with metal BB's, and how to handle them safely.

    I used to be into airsoft, as well as most of a youth group I used to attend. We would have airsoft games inside the youth building at the church and everyone was required to wear eye protection, and we had a basic set of rules we would always follow. We used plastic BB's, nobody ever got hurt, nothing got broken, and we had no incidents with police, because we kept it safe and set rules.

    These kids were obviously never taught any sort of rules regarding this.
    Quote Originally Posted by SayWhat View Post

    Shooters before hooters.

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    trofwa wrote:

    What possible reasonable reason is there for exact copies to be able to be put into the hands of homonial driven teens? Is a Orange Airsoft gun that much less fun to shoot?

    Yes shooting an orange Airsoft gun would be really retarded and have no feeling of realism.

    The fun part of the toy guns is the fact that you can shoot a gun that is just like a real gun and learn alot about firearm safety as a kid.

    I had alot of airsoft and bb guns as a kid. I never did anything stupid with it and I learned the hard way with a weak toy gun on why I shouldn't point the gun at my self..

    I would say that being a responsible person with a bb gun as a kid taught me to be a more responsible person with a real gun.

    The kids where trying to have fun. What they did was stupid and most likely would have been avoided if the kids had the guns and a setup for using it at home without damaging others property

    My dad always had guns around and bought me my bb guns and airsoft guns and taught me to shoot in a safe direction. I went outside and shot cans all day long. Only the waste of Pepsi products where affected.

    And non of my old bb guns and Airsoft guns ever had any orange on them. My favorite Airsoft handgun looked very real and was all metal too, No orange.

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    G22Paddy wrote:
    And this is where I have to disagree. It's a federal offense to remove or modify the orange tip, so those kids are looking at a ton of crap for that alone. If you make them out of all orange plastic, all it takes is more black sharpie or a can of spray paint.

    No matter what you do, there's a way around it.
    Illegal to SELL without an orange tip or clear body, NOT illegal to own/modify to remove orange tip (unless prohibited by city/county/state law).

    Cite

    No person shall manufacture, enter into commerce, ship, transport, or receive any toy, look-alike, or imitation firearm (“device”) covered by this part as set forth in §1150.1 of this part unless such device contains, or has affixed to it, one of the markings set forth in §1150.3 of this part, or unless this prohibition has been waived by §1150.4 of this part.

    [54 FR 19358, May 5, 1989]
    § 1150.3 Approved markings.


    The following markings are approved by the Secretary of Commerce:

    (a) A blaze orange (Federal Standard 595a, February, 1987, color number 12199, issued by the General Services Administration) or orange color brighter than that specified by the federal standard color number, solid plug permanently affixed to the muzzle end of the barrel as an integral part of the entire device and recessed no more than 6 millimeters from the muzzle end of the barrel. This incorporation by reference was approved by the Director of the Federal Register in accordance with U.S.C. 552(a) and 1 CFR part 51. Copies of Federal Standard 595a may be obtained from the Office of Engineering and Technical Management, Chemical Technology Division, Paints Branch, General Services Administration, Washington, DC 20406. Copies may be inspected at the office of the Associate Director for Industry and Standards, National Institute for Standards and Technology, Gaithersburg, Maryland, or at the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA). For information on the availability of this material at NARA, call 202–741–6030, or go to: http://www.archives.gov/federal_regi...locations.html.

    (b) A blaze orange (Federal Standard 595a, February, 1987, color number 12199, issued by the General Services Administration) or orange color brighter than that specified by the Federal Standard color number, marking permanently affixed to the exterior surface of the barrel, covering the circumference of the barrel from the muzzle end for a depth of at least 6 millimeters. This incorporation by reference was approved by the Director for the Federal Register in accordance with 5 U.S.C. 552(a) and 1 CFR part 51. Copies of Federal Standard 595a may be obtained from the Office of Engineering and Technical Management, Chemical Technology Division, Paints Branch, General Services Administration, Washington, DC 20406. Copies may be inspected at the office of the Associate Director for Industry and Standards, National Institute for Standards and Technology, Gaithersburg, Maryland, or at the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA). For information on the availability of this material at NARA, call 202–741–6030, or go to: http://www.archives.gov/federal_regi...locations.html.

    (c) Construction of the device entirely of transparent or translucent materials which permits unmistakable observation of the device's complete contents.

    (d) Coloration of the entire exterior surface of the device in white, bright red, bright orange, bright yellow, bright green, bright blue, bright pink, or bright purple, either singly or as the predominant color in combination with other colors in any pattern.
    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

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    I had all sorts of airsoft and BB guns as a kid.

    I also wasn't a big fan of the orange tips. Never caused me a problem.

    I rather resent the suggestion that I ought to have been prohibited or restricted from doing so.

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    We should ban lego's while we're at it.
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...highlight=lego



    geez... really?

    ban a toy because teenagers can be dumb when playing with that toy.
    I thought we were against banning objects because they can be used in stupid ways?

    And what's with the cops destroying property? something sounds fishy there.

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    trofwa wrote:
    About 2 hours ago I had someone pounding on my back door screaming for help. It;s the young female renter from the house behind mine.

    I roll outta bed, grab the .45, ask her to step over by the window so I can see who it is. I then let her in.

    She is hysterical saying that there is a gang on her street with machine guns shooting at each other and had shot out her front window. And she could see them waving guns around.

    So I get dressed, call up 911, and because the call came from my house they came to my house. Long story short it is most of the police dept all 3 of them.

    Long story short they want us both to come over to the neighbor's house. Sure enough the window is busted out, and there are silver balls everywhere.

    Well we can hear yelling and screaming up in the woods along with alot of F bombs, and all of a sudden out come 6-8 dark clothing figures with AK's and AR's. Every officer draws, including me. All of suspects are ordered to the ground, at gun point, all the guns are secured from them. 5 AK's 2 AR's and 7 various hand guns. All our shooters are teens from the neighborhood.

    Turns out it is the neighborhood kids out shooting screen doors and mail boxes with Automatic airsoft guns loaded with metal bb's. and the rifles are battery opperated full auto and powerful enough to dent and then punch holes in the side of tin mail boxes with the metal BB's.

    They all went into handcuffs or plasticuffs. And they all got to have their parents come meet the officers. The parents were not happy and were more then content to have the airsoft guns layed out on the street while the officer ran them over repeatedly til they were trash. Apparently those airsoft guns run $200+ for some of them. And ALL of these had the red tips removed or colored over with sharpie marker.

    What followed was a lecture on the fact that any or all of their kids could have been killed tonight and although it would have been a tragety it would have been justifyable. Teens shooting out windows dressed as ninjas, and presenting arrms at officers at a scene filled with 4 police cruisers with their light flashing. With what has happened recently in the news with officers being killed, tonight really put my adrenaline through the roof. To seen more then a half dozen figures emerge from the treeline accross the street and brandishing rifles was absolutely terrifying. And I have been at the end of a gun more then once in my life and it is something you never get over.

    In the end I got a thank you for the help and compliments on keeping my head, and that all of the officers felt good with the choice of bringing me along and were glad I hadn't come unarmed. In the end what made several of the teens immeadiatly comply they told us was that myself and one of the officers have lasers on our gns which were activated when the youths came outta the woods. Long story short they told us they realized that once you get a lock on them with the laser it doesn't matter where they run the bullet will find them so they just gave up. Thank you Hollywood.

    All 8 youths are looking a various charges that will be determined tomorrow. I have to go down and write a formal statement and report tomorrow.

    So right now the neighbor just left after having coffee with me and my girlfriend. She was really freaked out by the whole thing.


    Edited to add: When I got dressed I put on a Safriland Paddle with the Kimber right in plain sight. The officers never said a thing at my house and had no issue with me bringing it along holstered when we went over to the other street. All four knew it from standing talking with me inthe livingroom, and all complimented and were grateful I was armed when it was all over.
    Link, cite, confirmation of this incident please.

    How many officers were involved again?

    What was the excuse given for tampering with evidence?

    Yata hey
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    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    and wouldn't (assuming some teenagers could find a 6mm metal bb) a metal bb out of a softair gun designed to toss plast .2 gram bb's a few hundred feet a second throw a metal bb (gotta be more that .2 grams [too lazy to math it up right now]) significatly slower?

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    uncoolperson wrote:
    and wouldn't (assuming some teenagers could find a 6mm metal bb) a metal bb out of a softair gun designed to toss plast .2 gram bb's a few hundred feet a second throw a metal bb (gotta be more that .2 grams [too lazy to math it up right now]) significatly slower?
    6mm metal BBs are relatively easy to find.

    Suspect that velocity would be in the 150-450 fps based on what I have read.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    trofwa wrote:
    Ban Airsoft and realistic airguns.
    Tonight is a prime example of why kids get killed
    Hmm

    Let’s remove this: “Airsoft and realistic air.” Insert this: "this type of gun and that type of gun" And leave this:” Tonight is a prime example of why kids get killed.”

    Ah! There we go. Strait from the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence

    Ban this type of gun and that type of gun. Tonight is a prime example of why kids get killed.
    "...our media are palace eunuchs gazing avidly at the harem of power and stroking their impotent pens in time to the rape of our liberties."
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    We don't need more laws because of stupid actions of others.

    And If I bought my kid a 150 dollar airsoft and the cops smashed it I wouldn't be happy.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
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    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    I remember when these laws were passed in the 80s. When the realistic looking toys came out, there were a string of robberies where the bad guys used them. We had one in the grocery store where I was a security officer. Guy walked in at 0200, picked one off of the shelf, walked up front and stuck it in the checkers face. Walked out with the cash.

    As the checker said - it looked real enough to me and I wasn't going to take the chance. This is while another store employee was running down the aisle screaming it's a toy gun he took it off of the shelf.

    Everyone of those parents would have filed a lawsuit if their precious had been shot.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    uncoolperson wrote:
    and wouldn't (assuming some teenagers could find a 6mm metal bb) a metal bb out of a softair gun designed to toss plastic .2 gram bb's a few hundred feet a second throw a metal bb (gotta be more that .2 grams [too lazy to math it up right now]) significatly slower?
    6mm metal BBs are relatively easy to find.

    Suspect that velocity would be in the 150-450 fps based on what I have read.

    Yata hey
    I meant in a worthwhile form for an airsoft gun

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    One of the appeals of Airsoft guns is that they replicate the milsim look that people seem to want. Even paintball has gotten on that bandwagon as of the last few years. It is all about people's actions. Banning airsoft or paintball weapons based on their looks is the next step to... Let's ban real weapons since they look like real weapons.

    hmmmm...

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    Yuncoolperson wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    uncoolperson wrote:
    and wouldn't (assuming some teenagers could find a 6mm metal bb) a metal bb out of a softair gun designed to toss plastic .2 gram bb's a few hundred feet a second throw a metal bb (gotta be more that .2 grams [too lazy to math it up right now]) significatly slower?
    6mm metal BBs are relatively easy to find.

    Suspect that velocity would be in the 150-450 fps based on what I have read.

    Yata hey
    I meant in a worthwhile form for an airsoft gun
    http://www.softairpro.com/

    http://www.bbbullets.co.nz/whatbbs.php

    Yata hey
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    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Yuncoolperson wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    uncoolperson wrote:
    and wouldn't (assuming some teenagers could find a 6mm metal bb) a metal bb out of a softair gun designed to toss plastic .2 gram bb's a few hundred feet a second throw a metal bb (gotta be more that .2 grams [too lazy to math it up right now]) significatly slower?
    6mm metal BBs are relatively easy to find.

    Suspect that velocity would be in the 150-450 fps based on what I have read.

    Yata hey
    I meant in a worthwhile form for an airsoft gun
    http://www.softairpro.com/

    http://www.bbbullets.co.nz/whatbbs.php

    Yata hey
    I stand corrected, though still not convinced of the accuracy of this story.

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    Yea, I agree with most here....banning anything because of the stupid actions of teenagers is just dumb. You cant stop dumb people from doing dumb things by passing dumb laws.

    Would we next then ban paintball guns? Sling Shots? Rocks? Its already a crime to use any of these things irresponsibly as these kids did.

    IDO thinkthat the purchase of any kind of weapon with "real to life cosmetic appearance" should be allowed only by adults 18 and over, if only to more clearly establish culpability on the parent/guardian when they are used ir-responsibly by their kids. It would also place the fault more directly on the parents laps if/when an officer involved shooting occurs.

    You cant blame the police from taking every precaution even if it IS clearly a toy gun, because he/she has no way of knowing what kind of modifications have been done. (perfect example of that is using metal BBs instead of the intended plastic BBs)

    As for why the police ran over the guns with their cars...the parents gave their consent from the sounds of the OT. Frankly, If my kids had done what these kids did, I would have given the police my permission to do the same thing as a good lesson to them.

    I grew up with BB guns just like many here, both a rifle and a pistol. The rifle was powerful enough to place a BB through both sides of a steel barrel if pumped up high enough. Never shot a living thing with them but dogs from our yard, and that was only with my parents permission. I was taught responsibility with firearms starting with these guns.

    These kids obviously hadn't been taught even rule 1, as evidenced by most their parents not even knowing the kids had the air-soft guns in the first place. Sounds like a parenting problem, not a gun problem.

  24. #24
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    I wouldn't have my kid definately would be in some deep sh*& with me, but I would have sold or kept the toy for myself.....lol.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  25. #25
    Regular Member
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    Post imported post

    All I see here is an argument to ban something that is eerily similar to the arguments used to ban real guns...

    Careful what you say, you will end up looking like a libi anti...

    BAN THEM FOR THE CHILDREN! Everything for the Children!

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