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Thread: Missoulian Independent mentions www.opencarry.org

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    The Missoulian Independent featured an anti-open carry piece which attacked a second amendment group called Celebrating Conservatism for having exercised their rights.

    It concludes that the groups members shouldn't even be able to open carry at their own private event:

    "Openly brandishing a sidearm is downright rude. Guns are made for a single purpose, to kill, and the sight of a 9 millie in public generates not respect or civil discourse but intimidation. Unless Celebrating Conservatism members expect hordes of zombies to crash their hootenanny at the fairgrounds, guns have no place in the chili line.

    http://missoulanews.bigskypress.com/...nt?oid=1192723

    The article reads in its entirety:

    Etc.

    Like Grandma used to say, "There's a time and place for everything."

    This week, Celebrating Conservatism marked its one-year anniversary with a Second Amendment themed shindig at the Ravalli County Fairgrounds. The night's highlights included a chili cook-off, live country and western music, an ammunition raffle and speeches by local gun-rights proponent Gary Marbut and Alaska's Second Amendment Task Force frontman Schaeffer Cox.

    And just like past meetings, a large number of the group's members openly packed sidearms at the party.

    Now, we have no qualms with the Second Amendment. Firearms have long held a special place in American culture. In fact, several Indy staffers are proud gun owners (a total workplace bonus if you're a fan of venison). But in light of this rising "open-carry" fashion statement, we feel it's high time for a little discussion of social etiquette.

    Take the stir over President Barack Obama's town hall meetings in August. A handful of conservatives were seen invoking their rights under open-carry laws, presumably under the guise of decrying the anti-gun rights lobby.

    Increasing fear about Obama's stance toward the Second Amendment freedoms has proven a powerful recruitment tool for groups on the far right in the past year. Websites like http://www.opencarry.org offer vast forums for the exchange of rhetoric, with catchphrases like "A right unexercised is a right lost."

    No one is arguing with the right to own a rifle or handgun, only the supposed need to display those weapons in public—and in close proximity to our nation's leader. Such actions are more threat than message, serving no higher purpose than widespread shock and awe. In their brash attempt to be taken seriously, the activists at Obama's town hall meetings shot their beloved open-carry movement in the foot, so to speak.

    Openly brandishing a sidearm is downright rude. Guns are made for a single purpose, to kill, and the sight of a 9 millie in public generates not respect or civil discourse but intimidation. Unless Celebrating Conservatism members expect hordes of zombies to crash their hootenanny at the fairgrounds, guns have no place in the chili line.

    (bold emphasis not in original article)

    So whoever wrote this sewage claims to have "no qualms with the Second Amendment" just the small detail about "The right to....(actually) bear arms."


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    Regular Member MT GUNNY's Avatar
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    Its good thing I carry a "Fou Fivv" instead of a "9 Millie"

    Who ever Wrote that is a "Putts", I use that word because its PC. I would much rather use Dumb ****!!

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    MT GUNNY wrote:
    Its good thing I carry a "Fou Fivv" instead of a "9 Millie"

    Who ever Wrote that is a "Putts", I use that word because its PC. I would much rather use Dumb @#$%!!
    10-4 ! on the choice of words, I would use DA !

    Sounds like a good party to have been at !



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    Well what DO ya'll expect out of Missoula??
    StaySafe,
    MG
    NRA Certified Instructor

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    Regular Member MT GUNNY's Avatar
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    MountainGator wrote:
    Well what DO ya'll expect out of Missoula??
    A good Grizzly Game !!!

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    Goo000OOO GRIZZ!
    StaySafe,
    MG
    NRA Certified Instructor

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    Regular Member 40s-and-wfan's Avatar
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    GUNNY, let me know if y'all want to do the whole Evergreen Super 1 thing that was mentioned a while ago. I'll be in town this next weekend and might be able to add my weight in on the equation if there's a few more people that want to participate!!
    In a crisis you don't rise to the occasion, but rather default to your level of training.

    Forgiveness is between them and God. It's my job to arrange the meeting.
    -John W. Creasy (Man on Fire)

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    Regular Member 40s-and-wfan's Avatar
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    Augustin wrote:
    "Openly brandishing a sidearm is downright rude. Guns are made for a single purpose, to kill, and the sight of a 9 millie in public generates not respect or civil discourse but intimidation. Unless Celebrating Conservatism members expect hordes of zombies to crash their hootenanny at the fairgrounds, guns have no place in the chili line.
    Can you say running your mouth about stuff you know nothing about or are so damn close-minded about is also rude?! Carrying a firearm on one's person isn't considered 'brandishing', there's a few laws and/or regulations about how it's illegal to 'brandish' a firearm.

    I hate the fact that some people run their mouth and don't think first. The whole brain-to-mouth filter doesn't work too well! Think before you speak, Morons!! I mean seriously, you're gonna diss on a website that you really didn't research and more than likely know nothing about?! You're gonna run your mouth about something that is as harmless as carrying a pocket knife around?! I've carried a pocket knife ever since I was wearing short pants (My grandfather made sure of that, always giving me new ones!) and I've honestly never felt the urge to bury it in someones tire or anything like that.

    I have cut the occational flower for my girlfriend with it. I don't know if that falls into the category of brandishing a knife though. I should look into that!!
    In a crisis you don't rise to the occasion, but rather default to your level of training.

    Forgiveness is between them and God. It's my job to arrange the meeting.
    -John W. Creasy (Man on Fire)

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    40s-and-wfan wrote:
    Augustin wrote:
    "Openly brandishing a sidearm is downright rude. Guns are made for a single purpose, to kill, and the sight of a 9 millie in public generates not respect or civil discourse but intimidation. Unless Celebrating Conservatism members expect hordes of zombies to crash their hootenanny at the fairgrounds, guns have no place in the chili line.
    Can you say running your mouth about stuff you know nothing about or are so damn close-minded about is also rude?! Carrying a firearm on one's person isn't considered 'brandishing', there's a few laws and/or regulations about how it's illegal to 'brandish' a firearm.

    I hate the fact that some people run their mouth and don't think first. The whole brain-to-mouth filter doesn't work too well! Think before you speak, Morons!! I mean seriously, you're gonna diss on a website that you really didn't research and more than likely know nothing about?! You're gonna run your mouth about something that is as harmless as carrying a pocket knife around?! I've carried a pocket knife ever since I was wearing short pants (My grandfather made sure of that, always giving me new ones!) and I've honestly never felt the urge to bury it in someones tire or anything like that.

    I have cut the occational flower for my girlfriend with it. I don't know if that falls into the category of brandishing a knife though. I should look into that!!
    The OP was reporting what an anti-open carry journalist wrote, He neither agreed with nor embraced the hack job. In fact he concluded with, "...whoever wrote this sewage..."

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    The OP was reporting what an anti-open carry journalist wrote, He neither agreed with nor embraced the hack job. In fact he concluded with, "...whoever wrote this sewage..."

    Thanks, Grapeshot. I didn't offer my personal opinion, but I'll do so now.

    Fact is, the Montana Legislaturedoesn't agree with the Missoulian Independent hit piece. And the legislature represents the will of the Montanapeople.

    Let's look at the many good things we as Montana residents enjoy.

    Montana has some of the best gun laws in the entire world. One of the most effective and active gun rights group is in Montana; the Montana Shooting Sports Association.

    According to Gary Marbut, president of the Montana Shooting Sports association,

    "Certainly, the laws of Montana contain many examples of statutes which support the right of citizens to possess and use firearms."

    "Also, there are laws restricting firearms possession and use in other states which have not been adopted in Montana, not because they are secret or unknown and not by accident, but because it is not the will of the people of Montana. These restrictions absent in Montana include: No registration of firearms; no registration of firearm owners; no permits required to buy firearms; no permits required to own firearms; no permits required to possess firearms; no permits required to transport firearms; no permits required to buy ammunition; no storage requirements for firearms or ammunition; no state waiting period for firearm purchase; no limit on the firearms a person may buy in a specified period; no sales tax on firearms or ammunition; no personal property tax on firearms or ammunition; no limit on the number of firearms a person may own; no limit on the number of firearms a person may keep at home; no "arsenal license" required for storage of multiple firearms; no gun locks required by law; no state background check for firearm purchase; no regulation of private firearm sales between individuals; no legal duty to retreat or flee if attacked; no permits needed to operate a shooting range outside cities; no permit required to carry concealed weapons outside cities; no licenses, permits or registration to own machine guns; no licenses, permits or registration to own silencers; no restrictions on firearm type or caliber for general game hunting; no regulation of gun shows or firearm sales at gun shows; no permits for gun shows; virtually no restrictions to shooting on public or private lands outside cities."


    The official Montana state website even lists all the shooting ranges in the state.

    Gary Marbut writes that “Montana has a very rich firearms culture.”

    “The first recorded travelers to Montana, the members of the Lewis and Clark expedition, were well-equipped with firearms, and depended on firearms for their survival. The ubiquity of firearms has not changed much since Lewis and Clark traveled here."

    "It is estimated that over 90% of the homes in Montana contain firearms. It is also estimated that the average home in Montana that does contain firearms probably has about 27 firearms. Montana has a higher percentage of residents purchasing hunting licenses than any other state, significantly higher than the number two and three states, Alaska and Wyoming.”


    Montana’s analog version of the United States Constitution’s Second Amendment is found in Montana’s own “Bill of Rights.” In other words, human beings in the state of Montana actually have rights.

    The Montana Constitution, Article II, Section 12, reads,

    "Right to bear arms. The right of any person to keep or bear arms in defense of his own home, person, and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall not be called in question, but nothing herein contained shall be held to permit the carrying of concealed weapons."

    Montana even has a law designating the week following the first Monday in March as the Right to Keep and Bear Arms Week.

    The Montana Legislature is especially freedom and gun friendly.

    In 2007, they passed a bill that made Montana the first state to ignore the Federal Real ID Act which was one of the most unconstitutional pieces of tyranny ever devised. Mandatory electronic biometric ID's will be the New World Order's key to enslaving the American populace (and the rest of the world). This led to many other states opting out, and I believe was the start of the current state’s soverenity

    In response to the D.C. vs. Heller Supreme Court case, the Montana legislature passed a resolution in which many Montana State elected officials concurred their opinion that the Second Amendment is a "collective right”.

    And in the 2009 legislative session a bill entitled "An Act Preserving and Clarifying Laws Relating to the Right of Self-Defense and the Right to Bear Arms" was passed.

    Montana passed a very special law which exempts all people in Montana from the Federal Gun Free School Zones Act, meaning that it is not against the law in Montana to have a firearm within 1,000’ of a school (as is currently the case in the other 49 states).

    There are less than 1 million people in Montana, and the ratio of cops to citizens is low. Speedtraps are few and far between. There is a higher percentage of "law enforcement officers" than "us vs. them" rouge cops in Montana than elsewhere.

    Montana has a unique propensity to attract the very best of America’s liberty-loving people. To be a Montanan isn’t as easy as just showing up here and getting a driver’s license. To be a Montanan means to be accepted by other Montanans, and that is an honor. For most Montanans, the Code of the West is still alive: honesty, courage, loyalty, generosity, and fairness.

    And there is a deep belief in independence and self reliance (95% are gun owners), rugged individualism, hospitality and western style ambiance.

    We have a private television network, canning factories, railroads, truck farming regions, about 50 independent telephone companies, refineries and steel factories, hydroelectric power plants, etc. A local ammunition manufacture near me cranks out over 300,000 rounds each day.

    About 10% of Montana's population is American Indian. All of the states tribes have declared sovereignty from Montana and are fiercely independent (they acknowledge no Montana laws and few federal). Many non-Indians also prefer to live on Indian land (12% of Montana’s area) because of this almost total lack of restrictive rules, taxes, regulation, etc.

    Oh, and I must mention that there is no sales tax at all in Montana.

    We have 147,046 square miles of beautiful mountains and open space, and only 902,000 liberty loving citizens. We are larger than the combined area of 10 North-Atlantic States, yet have only 2% of the combined population of those states. The ratio of urban to rural dwellers in Montana is nearly 50/50, and our urban population is growing. The state grew 13% between 1990 and 2000. We’re self-sufficient in food and other natural resources (although you won’t find many oranges growing here).

    Many criminal offenses that are felonies in other states are misdemeanors in Montana.

    Many libertarian Republicans are currently serving in state government, in both the House and the Senate.

    Home search standards are required to search a vehicle. There is no vehicle safety or emissions inspections program.

    There is a preemption law in Montana that prevents local governments from passing gun control ordinances, except for regulating the discharge of firearms inside city limits, and regulating the carrying of firearms into public parks and public buildings.

    A Montana Resolution requires that all Federal law enforcement cooperate with locals.

    MSSA first introduced a bill with criminal penalties for violation, but ultimately obtained passage of a resolution a) asking all federal officers to notify the county sheriff prior to any arrest, search or seizure in the sheriff's county, b) requiring the Montana Department of Justice to maintain a log of federal operations in Montana and note which ones happened with the advance notice to the sheriff, and c) requiring the Montana Secretary of State to send copies of the resolution to a long list of federal agencies.

    Montanans responded to government road closures by simply reopening federal forest roads.

    Montana neither ratified nor took part in Prohibition.

    Montana hasbanned federal purchase of state lands.

    There are no building permits required outside of city limits (except now in Missoula County).

    Celebrate FREEDOM in Montana with me.

    Montana isn't the "Last Best Place"; Montana is THE FIRST BEST PLACE.

    AUGustin

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    The OP was reporting what an anti-open carry journalist wrote, He neither agreed with nor embraced the hack job. In fact he concluded with, "...whoever wrote this sewage..."

    Yata hey
    Agreed. That's why I was quoting the article itself and not the OP. I didn't think the OP was saying it was rude, to the best of my recollection, the person who wrote the article for the Independent was saying that. He/she is the person I was trashing!!

    By the way, I've always wanted to ask this: What the hell is 'Yata Hey'? Just out of sheercuriosity...
    In a crisis you don't rise to the occasion, but rather default to your level of training.

    Forgiveness is between them and God. It's my job to arrange the meeting.
    -John W. Creasy (Man on Fire)

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    Ya'ah'tee, sounds like Yata Hey and is the traditional Navajo greeting.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    1Grizzly1 wrote:
    Ya'ah'tee, sounds like Yata Hey and is the traditional Navajo greeting.
    We have winner from the great state of Utah!

    The expression is similar in many Native American languages. The approximate phonetic spelling that I use comes from Lakota Sioux. It literally means "Its a great day for dying."

    More generally however it is used much the way we might greet someone as in "hello" or "have a nice day" as we part.

    Still it is a war cry. Its easy to tell the difference though - just listen to the tone of my voice, watch the expression on my face and whether my blade is thirsty.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member 40s-and-wfan's Avatar
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    IDAHO COWBOY wrote:
    MT GUNNY wrote:
    Its good thing I carry a "Fou Fivv" instead of a "9 Millie"

    Who ever Wrote that is a "Putts", I use that word because its PC. I would much rather use Dumb @#$%!!
    10-4 ! on the choice of words, I would use DA !

    Sounds like a good party to have been at !

    Agreed!! Kinda makes me wonder what the possibilities are of having something similar to this ourself. I'd love for the chance to have a state-wide 'Open-Carry Picnic' or gathering somewhere here in the state! Invite OC'ers and CC'ers alike from across the state to come and participate in festivities, comraderie and all kinds of other stuff that we could arrange. All that's needed is a central location and a game plan to start with!! It could start there and build up with more ideas and help from people state-wide.

    Matter of fact, what harm would there be in inviting OC and CC'ers from anywhere. I guess it wouldn't need to be limited to just people from the state of Montana!!

    Sorry, just kinda spit-balling here. More like just a pipe-dream. Could you imagine how much fun it'd be though?! Maybe some kind of raffle or something like that too!!Dang, this could be fun!!
    In a crisis you don't rise to the occasion, but rather default to your level of training.

    Forgiveness is between them and God. It's my job to arrange the meeting.
    -John W. Creasy (Man on Fire)

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    40s-and-wfan wrote:
    IDAHO COWBOY wrote:
    MT GUNNY wrote:
    Its good thing I carry a "Fou Fivv" instead of a "9 Millie"

    Who ever Wrote that is a "Putts", I use that word because its PC. I would much rather use Dumb @#$%!!
    10-4 ! on the choice of words, I would use DA !

    Sounds like a good party to have been at !

    Agreed!! Kinda makes me wonder what the possibilities are of having something similar to this ourself. I'd love for the chance to have a state-wide 'Open-Carry Picnic' or gathering somewhere here in the state! Invite OC'ers and CC'ers alike from across the state to come and participate in festivities, comraderie and all kinds of other stuff that we could arrange. All that's needed is a central location and a game plan to start with!! It could start there and build up with more ideas and help from people state-wide.

    Matter of fact, what harm would there be in inviting OC and CC'ers from anywhere. I guess it wouldn't need to be limited to just people from the state of Montana!!

    Sorry, just kinda spit-balling here. More like just a pipe-dream. Could you imagine how much fun it'd be though?! Maybe some kind of raffle or something like that too!!Dang, this could be fun!!
    Mid - June to late August on a Saturday but not 4th July weekend

    Pick a location - I know a Dozen or more that would show up for either OC or CC but for a deal like this they would prefer OC.

    The question is "may we", most city parks do not allow open or concealed carry ?

    Private land ? State Park ?

    All day event - Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner - Bring Kids, Family deal

    ++++++++++++



    >> Montana Constitution, Article II, Section 33. Importation of armed
    >> persons. No armed person or persons or armed body of men shall be
    >> brought into this state for the preservation of the peace, or the
    >> suppression of domestic violence, except upon the application of the
    >> legislature, or of the governor when the legislature cannot be convened.
    >>
    >> and
    >>
    >> 45-8-107. Purpose. The legislature recognizes every citizen's
    >> constitutional right to express beliefs on any subject, to associate
    >> with others who share similar beliefs, and to keep or bear arms in
    >> defense of home, person, or property. Sections 45-8-107 through 45-8-109
    >> are not intended to interfere with the exercise of rights protected by
    >> the United States constitution or the state constitution. The
    >> legislature finds that conspiracies and training activities in the
    >> furtherance of unlawful acts of violence against persons or property are
    >> not constitutionally protected, pose a threat to public order and
    >> safety, and are subject to criminal penalties.
    >>
    >> 45-8-108. Definitions.
    >> 45-8-108. Definitions. As used in 45-8-107 through 45-8-109, unless
    >> the context requires otherwise, the following definitions apply:
    >> (1) "Civil disorder" means a public disturbance involving unlawful
    >> acts of violence by a group of two or more persons that causes an
    >> immediate danger of or results in injury to the property or person of
    >> any other individual.
    >> (2) "Governmental military force" means:
    >> (a) the national guard as defined in 10 U.S.C. 101;
    >> (b) the organized militia of a state or territory of the United
    >> States, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or the District of Columbia not
    >> included in the definition of the national guard; and
    >> (c) the armed forces of the United States.
    >> (3) "Law enforcement agency" means a department of public safety, a
    >> police department, a sheriff's department, the highway patrol, or a
    >> governmental unit of one or more persons employed by the state or
    >> federal government or a political subdivision of the state or federal
    >> government, for the purpose of detecting and preventing crime and
    >> enforcing laws or ordinances, whose employees are authorized to make
    >> arrests for crimes while acting in the scope of their authority.
    >> (4) "Peace officer" has the meaning given in 45-2-101.
    >>
    >> 45-8-109. Civil disorder -- prohibited activities -- penalties --
    >> exceptions.
    >> 45-8-109. Civil disorder -- prohibited activities -- penalties --
    >> exceptions. (1) A person is guilty of a crime if, with one or more other
    >> persons, the person purposely or knowingly assembles for the purpose of
    >> training in, instructing in the use of, or practicing with any technique
    >> or means capable of causing property damage, bodily injury, or death,
    >> with the purpose of employing the training, instruction, or practice in
    >> a civil disorder.
    >> (2) A person convicted of violating the provisions of subsection
    >> (1) is guilty of a felony and shall be imprisoned in the state prison
    >> for a period not to exceed 10 years or be fined not to exceed $50,000,
    >> or both.
    >> (3) Subsection (1) does not prohibit:
    >> (a) an act protected pursuant to Article II of the Montana
    >> constitution;
    >> (b) an act of a governmental military force;
    >> (c) an act of a peace officer performed in the lawful performance
    >> of the officer's duties;
    >> (d) an authorized activity of the department of fish, wildlife, and
    >> parks; the department of corrections; a law enforcement agency; or the
    >> law enforcement academy;
    >> (e) training in nonviolent civil disobedience techniques;
    >> (f) lawful self-defense or defense of others or an activity
    >> intended to teach or practice self-defense or self-defense
    >> techniques; or
    >> (g) a facility, program, or lawful activity related to firearms
    >> instruction or training intended to teach the safe handling and use of
    >> firearms or activities or sports related to recreational use or
    >> possession of firearms.
    >> (4) Sections 45-8-107 through 45-8-109 do not apply to an employer
    >> or employees involved in a labor dispute.









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