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Thread: NYC police: Officer kills Times Square scammer

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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091211/...g_times_square

    NYC police: Officer kills Times Square scammer

    By TOM HAYS and CRISTIAN SALAZAR, Associated Press Writers Tom Hays And Cristian Salazar, Associated Press Writers

    NEW YORK – A plainclothes cop chased a scam artist through sidewalks crowded with holiday shoppers and tourists Thursday in the heart of Times Square, killing the suspect near a landmark Broadway hotel after a gunfight that shattered box office and gift shop windows, police said.

    No one else was injured.

    The 25-year-old suspect, Raymond Martinez of the Bronx, and his brother were trying to dupe tourists into buying CDs near Broadway and 44th Street just before noon when he was recognized by a sergeant who runs a task force that monitors aggressive panhandling, Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said.

    The officer, Sgt. Christopher Newsom, asked them for their tax identification, which allows peddlers to sell on the streets. But Martinez took off running, through to the Marriott Marquis hotel's passenger drop-off area.

    Newsom pursued, and Martinez turned and fired with a Mac-10 9mm machine pistol that held 30 rounds; he got off two shots before it jammed, police said. The officer fired four times, striking the suspect in the chest and arms and killing him, Kelly said.

    Martinez's brother Oliver returned to the family's Bronx home Thursday evening after hours in police custody. The Martinezes' brother Anthony arrived at the home later Thursday, crying out that he hates police: "They shot my brother!" he said, hugging Oliver.

    The commissioner said the shooting preliminarily appeared to be within department guidelines, which allow for deadly force when an officer's life is threatened.

    Police say the Martinez brothers were working a scam in which they would approach tourists, ask them their names, then write the names on the CDs and demand payment of $10. They claim the CDs are original work they've created, but it's unclear if that's true. They had already been given a summons by officers this year for not having identification.

    Martinez's cousin Nailean Arzu said the slain man had been selling CDs in the area for years.

    "He was my cousin. He was loved. Everybody loved him. It's a great loss to the family," she said.

    The hotel is located in the Broadway theater district in the heart of Times Square. The Marquis Theatre, where "White Christmas" is now playing, is in the hotel. Bullets from the gunfight shattered the window of the Broadway Baby gift shop and a side window of the box office on the street, police said.

    Dave Kinahan, a tourist from Boston, was parking his car in a spot below street level at the hotel when he saw one man shooting another.

    "I was 20 yards away," Kinahan said. He said he thought, "Is this real or this a movie?"

    Raymond Martinez had been wanted for assault in the Bronx. The gun he used in the shooting was reported stolen in Richmond, Va., on Oct. 28, police said.

    He also had with him several business cards from gun dealers there, but it's not clear if he was also selling weapons, police said.

    One of the cards had a handwritten message on the back: "I just finished watching 'The Last Dragon.' I feel sorry for a cop if he think I'm getting into his paddy wagon," according to police. It's unclear who wrote the message, which apparently references the 1985 martial arts movie.

    NYPD spokesman Paul Browne said officers pay special attention to scams and panhandling during the holidays. Specialized units are set up in areas, including Times Square and Canal Street, where stolen goods, knockoffs and scams are prevalent.

    "We focus on them this time of the year, because they're preying on tourists during the Christmas holidays," Browne said.

    NYPD Capt. Edward Winski of the Midtown precinct, where the shooting occurred, said arrests involving sellers on the streets have increased in the past few years. So far this year, there have been more than 400 arrests involving illegal and licensed peddlers around Times Square.

    But some say peddlers get a bad rap.

    "I think they get treated tougher than they actually are," said Zach McCabe, a comedian who has been passing out fliers for his shows for nearly a year on the strip of Broadway where the CD peddlers often stop tourists.

    He said he didn't think the vendors harass people. "I don't see it. I see them talking to people."

    A few hours after the shooting, the area had returned to the normal holiday bustle, even as dozens of police officers surrounded the hotel.

    Donna Anderson of Murray, Utah, was staying at the Marquis. She was intrigued by what happened — not scared.

    "I wanted to get a picture of the crime scene," she said.

    ___

    Associated Press writers Sara Kugler, Colleen Long, Adam Goldman and Chad Roedemeier contributed to this report.

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    Well, clearly, we need to ban New Yorkers in Virginia, as they are responsible for all the theft around here.

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    Not all them Yankees isbad.

    My oldest daughter now lives in NYC and has been attempting to educate them since 2000. She has made some progress, but admits the prospect of fixn them yankees is going to be a "long term project".





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    Regular Member kennys's Avatar
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    Bloom berg says to many guns. http://wtop.com/index.php?nid=104&sid=1836435



    I say two many gun laws. Get rid of Bloom berg and these hindering laws to the law abiding citizens than there crime rate goes down. So easy a cave man could do it.

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    Hmmm....Martinez's brother hates cops because they shot and killed his brother, who was at the timecommiting the crime of attempted capital murder of a police officerwith an illegal stolen gun??? ...Criminal logic I guess !!!

    So, what's the lesson we've all learned here?...Mac-10'sare not an effective or reliable carry weapon !!!

    Cost of trial for the dirt bag to NYers...$0

    Cost of incarceration of the dirt bag to the people of New York...$0

    One dead dirt bag...PRICELESS!!! :celebrate

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    I seriously hope they are leaving something out, and that it wasn't a legit registered full auto MAC.


    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Michigander wrote:
    I seriously hope they are leaving something out, and that it wasn't a legit registered full auto MAC.

    Of course with it being the left wing Associated Press reporting it, ANY chance they get to exagerate (ie, calling it a "machine pistol") they are going to jump all over it!

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    They had a picture of the "actuall" weapon on the news and it was simply a mac-11 9mm mini. One of the new types from MPA, it did not even have a threaded barrel, so if it was full auto it was illegal as hell, since no new MG's for civilians since the 80's.

    Those little mac types are actually quite reliable, but are hold and ammo sensitive, at least form the ones I have shot. The actuall full auto types which are usually open bolt guns are far less hold sensitive and ammo finicky.



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    Whoa, the perps gun jammed after the 2nd shot...

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Probably a "failure to feed" jam caused by limp-wristing it, and holding it sideways, "gangsta style". And he was probably using crappy ammo and hadn't cleaned and lubed it either.

    We should all be happy that most of these thugs don't know how to properly maintain, hold, aim, and fire their weapons. I guess illiteracy and stupidity DO produce some useful outcomes after all...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggressionand this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    doesent this story sound fishy? number one how did he get a mac ten anyways? 2 there trying to make it sound like it was automatic? and number 3 where can I buy a automatic mac ten lol. 4 who the hell even owns a mac ten in richmond its freaking Richmond all thats there is Politicians humm go figure

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    kennys wrote:
    Bloom berg says to many guns. http://wtop.com/index.php?nid=104&sid=1836435



    I say two many gun laws. Get rid of Bloom berg and these hindering laws to the law abiding citizens than there crime rate goes down. So easy a cave man could do it.
    Well, the OBVIOUS solution to this problem is that the Virginia State Police should institute a program of intercepting EVERY NY resident traveling out of VA--by car or airplane--and detain them while their vehicles and/or luggage are thoroughly searched for contraband firearms.

    Since Bloomberg believes that most of the illegal guns owned by criminals in NY are coming from VA, then it stands to reason that the ONLY reason any NY resident would travel to VA is to procure those firearms illegally.

    I think VSP Superintendent Col. W. Steven Flaherty should institute a "NY Traveller Interception Advisory" immediately with the VSP, and ALL vehicles with NY tags traveling northbound out of VA should be stopped and searched.

    Let's see how THAT would go over with Bloomy and his anti-2A buddies in NY... :celebrate

    </sarcasm>
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggressionand this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Bloomberg has tried to do some of the most underhanded things and for some reason something doesn't seem right to me on this. What's the chances of stolen gun, Mac 10 to be precise, and dead shooter with Va gun dealer cards in his pocket? Could be believable I guess, maybe he tried and could not legally purchase so he found one to steal. I would really like to know more. Will this woman that purchased the gun and reported it stolen turn up? Is she real? You have to think, I do not feel Bloom berg has an honest care for peoples safety as he claims for all the garbage he spews. I do believe that if he could get his way or it would push his agenda, he would trade a life for his own benefit.

    I hope there are some 2a supportive detectives and crime scene investigators that are not ruling any thing out. I would as well like to see proof of the rounds that were fired and the ballistics match from that mack 10 that supposedly fired them. Someone could have gave the guy the gun and blanks and said to do a little acting, but of course dead men tell no tales. We really don't know unless we have seen it with our own eyes.

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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    kennys wrote:
    Bloomberg has tried to do some of the most underhanded things and for some reason something doesn't seem right to me on this. What's the chances of stolen gun, Mac 10 to be precise, and dead shooter with Va gun dealer cards in his pocket? Could be believable I guess, maybe he tried and could not legally purchase so he found one to steal. I would really like to know more. Will this woman that purchased the gun and reported it stolen turn up? Is she real? You have to think, I do not feel Bloom berg has an honest care for peoples safety as he claims for all the garbage he spews. I do believe that if he could get his way or it would push his agenda, he would trade a life for his own benefit.

    I hope there are some 2a supportive detectives and crime scene investigators that are not ruling any thing out. I would as well like to see proof of the rounds that were fired and the ballistics match from that mack 10 that supposedly fired them. Someone could have gave the guy the gun and blanks and said to do a little acting, but of course dead men tell no tales. We really don't know unless we have seen it with our own eyes.
    An interesting thought. Bloomberg finds a patsy to take the hit, then makes a big stink about another gun in NY from Virginia. Hmmmm.

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    buster81 wrote:
    kennys wrote:
    Bloomberg has tried to do some of the most underhanded things and for some reason something doesn't seem right to me on this. What's the chances of stolen gun, Mac 10 to be precise, and dead shooter with Va gun dealer cards in his pocket? Could be believable I guess, maybe he tried and could not legally purchase so he found one to steal. I would really like to know more. Will this woman that purchased the gun and reported it stolen turn up? Is she real? You have to think, I do not feel Bloom berg has an honest care for peoples safety as he claims for all the garbage he spews. I do believe that if he could get his way or it would push his agenda, he would trade a life for his own benefit.

    I hope there are some 2a supportive detectives and crime scene investigators that are not ruling any thing out. I would as well like to see proof of the rounds that were fired and the ballistics match from that mack 10 that supposedly fired them. Someone could have gave the guy the gun and blanks and said to do a little acting, but of course dead men tell no tales. We really don't know unless we have seen it with our own eyes.
    An interesting thought. Bloomberg finds a patsy to take the hit, then makes a big stink about another gun in NY from Virginia. Hmmmm.
    He wants his way, he got knocked down once because of his illegal stings he is mad and working overtime to compensate. Look at the depths he goes to push hismiss-leading lieson the victims families from Va Tech. He doesn't care about them, he doesn't care about any one or their safety, unless he can use them for his own purpose. He is not a person to be trusted and as well I believe he would do anything just to try to push his point.

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    Looks like bloomerburg ought to be policing his own streets instead of wasting energy harassing VA gun show vendors & patrons.

    I had a MAC-10 about a decade ago. Thought I would use it in my convenient store. I kept in under the counter. I loaded it up that morning, pulled back the slide to chamber a round (finger OFF the trigger) and the bolt went forward and slamfired. The bullet went thru the cigarette display, thru about 12 packs of cigarettes in a row in the display, hit the flourescent light and busted out the tube, then went thru the ceiling.

    I got a 1911 the next day.

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    Dreamer wrote:
    Probably a "failure to feed" jam caused by limp-wristing it, and holding it sideways, "gangsta style". And he was probably using crappy ammo and hadn't cleaned and lubed it either.

    We should all be happy that most of these thugs don't know how to properly maintain, hold, aim, and fire their weapons. I guess illiteracy and stupidity DO produce some useful outcomes after all...
    LOL! Or maybe it just jammed because it's an Ingram.

    Rugerp345 wrote:
    Looks like bloomerburg ought to be policing his own streets instead of wasting energy harassing VA gun show vendors & patrons.

    I had a MAC-10 about a decade ago. Thought I would use it in my convenient store. I kept in under the counter. I loaded it up that morning, pulled back the slide to chamber a round (finger OFF the trigger) and the bolt went forward and slamfired. The bullet went thru the cigarette display, thru about 12 packs of cigarettes in a row in the display, hit the flourescent light and busted out the tube, then went thru the ceiling.

    I got a 1911 the next day.
    Yes, 1911, good choice. I hate that slamfire crap (had an SKS do that on me once, scared the crap out of me).

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    This mac ten story is being used as a tool to conjure up images of prohibition "we all know how well that worked" with al capone and thiompson machine guns. There trying to make it sounds like the Mac ten that was "used ,eye roll" is fully auto. If it is hell tell me where I can buy one. But Mr.Bloomberg dosent have to worry he has Secret Service details to do his protecting.
    I really think we need to go back to Duleing,The Senate grounds still have Duling grounds. Ron Paul against Bloomberg hummmm? And obviously Ron wins so since he is a Doctor he can just resuscitate him lol.

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    kennys wrote:
    Bloom berg says to many guns. http://wtop.com/index.php?nid=104&sid=1836435



    I say two many gun laws. Get rid of Bloom berg and these hindering laws to the law abiding citizens than there crime rate goes down. So easy a cave man could do it.
    TOO many gun laws, TOO many guns,,argh folks that mess these up bother the stuffins outa me LOL, sorry not trying to put you down just a pet peave of mine,,but I do mirror your sentiments.
    Mac 10's nothing worse than a "spray and pray" weapon.
    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. Thomas Jefferson

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    McX wrote:
    Don't you just hate when the criminals are better armed than you are?
    Well, of course they are.

    They don't have to worry about method-of-fire restricitions, magazine capacity restrictions, waiting period restrictions, taxes on the firearm or the ammo, background checks...

    All of these things are what law-abiding citizens have to go through.

    Criminals just do what they do best (ignore laws and social standards), and end up being the onlypeople with the weapons that the "gun control" laws are supposed to keep them from having.

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    buster81 wrote:
    Mac-10 9mm machine pistol that held 30 rounds; he got off two shots
    Wow... A 'machine pistol.' I wonder what that is? Is it like a Tooth Fairy, or an Easter Bunny, but with bullets? Stolen in VA? You mean NY is responsible for thefts in other States? Of objects that don't even exist? Which contain 30 rounds, but only managed to spray wildly about the place with 2 whole bullets?

    If only I had some type of large heavy object I could sit in that had silent round spinning things that made no sound when propelling it, and had a place for me to guide it up onto sidewalks to run people over with... Maybe then a New Yorker could steal it and fill it's enormous propellant tank with murderous intent and park it in a parking lot and never have it move again...........

    Is stupid an art form in NY?
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    kennys wrote:
    Bloom berg says to many guns. http://wtop.com/index.php?nid=104&sid=1836435



    I say two many gun laws. Get rid of Bloom berg and these hindering laws to the law abiding citizens than there crime rate goes down. So easy a cave man could do it.
    UUGGHH!!! ME AFFENDED!!!Ancestors invented first weapons system. :P

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