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Thread: "Gun Toters at City Hall"

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    Council members express uneasiness,need for new law




    By Jeremy M. Lazarus




    Bruce Tyler wonders whether a bulletproof vest should be part of his City Council wardrobe. He’s only partly joking. The 1st District councilman has body armor on his mind after he and his eight colleagues had to face a glowering group of 10 men,
    some carrying firearms, who shockingly showed up at the Nov. 23 council meeting at City Hall.“I am very uncomfortable around guns,” Mr. Tyler said this week in the wake of the meeting where a pistol-toting few came to lobby council. Their issue: Opposition to the council’s latest push for state controls on gun sales, particularly at laxly regulated gun shows. Having gun advocates brazenly showing their weapons “definitely made me uncomfortable,” said Mr. Tyler, an architect.


    In a Free Press inquiry Tuesday, four other council members also expressed concern at having to conduct city business in front of people wearing weapons in shoulder holsters or on their belts. The pistol-packing men were members of the Virginia Citizens Defense League. Most displayed orange stickers on their shirts stating “Guns Save Lives” in a city in which shootings are all too common.


    “I support the right of people to bear arms to protect themselves,” a still seething Council Vice President Ellen F. Robertson, 6th District, said, “but I see no reason why people have to bring their weapons into an arena where there is no perceived threat.”
    “It wasn’t appropriate,” said Chris A. Hilbert, 3rd District, who lost his father to gun violence.


    “I wasn’t very happy about it,” said Council President Kathy C. Graziano, 4th district, “but I don’t think there is much we cando about it.” And that seems to be the case. Local officials have been stripped of authority to impose any restrictions on guns, gun sales and gun carrying by a General Assembly majority that has embraced the gun culture advocated by the likes of Philip Van Cleave, who led the pro-gun league members to City Council.


    The specific law that bars council action is 15.2-915 of the Virginia Code, which, in part, states: “No locality shall adopt or
    enforce any ordinance … governing the purchase, possession, transfer ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearmsammunition, or components … “ So while Councilman E. Martin “Marty” Jewell, 5th District, believes that “if people come armed to City Hall, we ought to be able to turn them away,” the council has no way to make that law, according to outgoing City Attorney Norman Sales. In Ms. Robertson’s opinion, Richmond Police officers should at least be able to check that people who come to City Hall “carrying weapons are carrying weapons that are unloaded.”


    However, Richmond Police attorney Victoria Benjamin said this week that wearing unconcealed guns into City Hall is legal and of
    ficers would first need probable cause that the owner represented a threat to make such a check. As it now stands, schools, courthouses, airports and restaurants that sell liquor are among the few places in the state where guns are still banned by the Virginia legislature. But it has taken repeated governor vetoes to maintain the ban on carrying concealed guns into places selling alcohol.


    The legislature also has made it easier for citizens to get permits to carry concealed guns and expanded the places where they can be carried. Today permit-carrying citizens can openly wear their guns into the State Capitol, though the Executive Mansion is still off limits. As a result, Mr. Hilbert sees little value in trying to bring back metal detectors. Richmond experimented with metal detectors atCity Hall after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, but discarded them in 2005 as an unnecessary expense.


    Ms. Graziano agrees. If people can openly carry weapons, she said, “Metal detectors would not do much good.” That is the reason, the council members argue, for new legislation that would end legal gun-toting at City Council meetings and other public meetings. “I think that is a reasonable thing to do,” Mr. Hilbert said.
    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
    Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    T Dubya wrote:


    As it now stands, schools, courthouses, airports and restaurants that sell liquor are among the few places in the state where guns are still banned by the Virginia legislature.

    The racist, corrupt Free Press needs to do a fact check.



    http://www.richmondfreepress.com/news/currentPageA.pdf
    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
    Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Cowardly quisling maggot yankee interlopers.

    Go back to your liberal bastions and get the hell out of my Commonwealth. If "guns" in a public arena make you uncomfortable then you have no business being a public representative you cowering, sniveling, whining pansy.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
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    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    T Dubya wrote:

    “I support the right of people to bear arms to protect themselves,” a still seething Council Vice President Ellen F. Robertson, 6th District, said, “but I see no reason why people have to bring their weapons into an arena where there is no perceived threat.” “It wasn’t appropriate,” said Chris A. Hilbert, 3rd District, who lost his father to gun violence.

    If there were a "perceived threat", why would you go there to begin with? If everyone always knew where the threat would be we wouldn't need to carry guns. I guess violence never happens at council meetings? Oh wait.... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23059784

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    T Dubya wrote:

    Council members express uneasiness,need for new law


    By Jeremy M. Lazarus


    Bruce Tyler wonders whether a bulletproof vest should be part of his City Council wardrobe. He’s only partly joking. The 1st District councilman has body armor on his mind after he and his eight colleagues had to face a glowering group of 10 men,
    some carrying firearms, who shockingly showed up at the Nov. 23 council meeting at City Hall.“I am very uncomfortable around guns,” Mr. Tyler said this week in the wake of the meeting where a pistol-toting few came to lobby council. Their issue: Opposition to the council’s latest push for state controls on gun sales, particularly at laxly regulated gun shows. Having gun advocates brazenly showing their weapons “definitely made me uncomfortable,” said Mr. Tyler, an architect.

    In a Free Press inquiry Tuesday, four other council members also expressed concern at having to conduct city business in front of people wearing weapons in shoulder holsters or on their belts. The pistol-packing men were members of the Virginia Citizens Defense League. Most displayed orange stickers on their shirts stating “Guns Save Lives” in a city in which shootings are all too common.

    “I support the right of people to bear arms to protect themselves,” a still seething Council Vice President Ellen F. Robertson, 6th District, said, “but I see no reason why people have to bring their weapons into an arena where there is no perceived threat.”
    “It wasn’t appropriate,” said Chris A. Hilbert, 3rd District, who lost his father to gun violence.

    “I wasn’t very happy about it,” said Council President Kathy C. Graziano, 4th district, “but I don’t think there is much we cando about it.” And that seems to be the case. Local officials have been stripped of authority to impose any restrictions on guns, gun sales and gun carrying by a General Assembly majority that has embraced the gun culture advocated by the likes of Philip Van Cleave, who led the pro-gun league members to City Council.

    The specific law that bars council action is 15.2-915 of the Virginia Code, which, in part, states: “No locality shall adopt or
    enforce any ordinance … governing the purchase, possession, transfer ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearmsammunition, or components … “ So while Councilman E. Martin “Marty” Jewell, 5th District, believes that “if people come armed to City Hall, we ought to be able to turn them away,” the council has no way to make that law, according to outgoing City Attorney Norman Sales. In Ms. Robertson’s opinion, Richmond Police officers should at least be able to check that people who come to City Hall “carrying weapons are carrying weapons that are unloaded.”

    However, Richmond Police attorney Victoria Benjamin said this week that wearing unconcealed guns into City Hall is legal and of
    ficers would first need probable cause that the owner represented a threat to make such a check. As it now stands, schools, courthouses, airports and restaurants that sell liquor are among the few places in the state where guns are still banned by the Virginia legislature. But it has taken repeated governor vetoes to maintain the ban on carrying concealed guns into places selling alcohol.

    The legislature also has made it easier for citizens to get permits to carry concealed guns and expanded the places where they can be carried. Today permit-carrying citizens can openly wear their guns into the State Capitol, though the Executive Mansion is still off limits. As a result, Mr. Hilbert sees little value in trying to bring back metal detectors. Richmond experimented with metal detectors atCity Hall after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, but discarded them in 2005 as an unnecessary expense.

    Ms. Graziano agrees. If people can openly carry weapons, she said, “Metal detectors would not do much good.” That is the reason, the council members argue, for new legislation that would end legal gun-toting at City Council meetings and other public meetings. “I think that is a reasonable thing to do,” Mr. Hilbert said.
    As if the only threat we have to be prepared for is the "percieved" threat. Isn'tthe threat that you don't percieve usually the one that actually hurts someone.

    Was Cho a "percieved threat" before he went on his rampage through Virginia Tech? No, if he was, then action would have been taken ahead of time.

    Was the dirtbag who killed the four cops a "percieved threat"? No, or they would not have been shot.

    Carrying a firearm openly helps to deter the "unpercieved threats" that could pop up anywhere.

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    Don't get started... vote every one of those suckers out of Office.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    @ aadvark:

    Remember. It's Richmond City Council. The public majority in Richmond is minority lower class. Much of Richmond is a slum compared to what it once was. It was Richmond's voting population that helped carry VA for the usurper-in-chief.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Darn. I'm going to have to visit there more often. Maybe they will get used to it, or maybe they will finally flip out completely. Either way, it's a sacrifice I'll make.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    “I support the right of people to bear arms to protect themselves,” a still seething Council Vice President Ellen F. Robertson, 6th District, said, “but I see no reason why people have to bring their weapons into an arena where there is no perceived threat.” “It wasn’t appropriate,” said Chris A. Hilbert, 3rd District, who lost his father to gun violence.


    If you percieved a threat you would come armed more appropriatly than handguns, if I went at all. I see no reason why police have to bring their weapons into an arena where there is no perceived threat. I did not know the VA Constitution requires at minimum a "perceived threat" in order to bear arms.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Even the silly Geese in Richmond know the truth. Why doesn't City Hall?



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    wylde007 wrote:
    Cowardly quisling maggot yankee interlopers.

    Go back to your liberal bastions and get the hell out of my Commonwealth. If "guns" in a public arena make you uncomfortable then you have no business being a public representative you cowering, sniveling, whining pansy.
    @ aadvark:

    Remember. It's Richmond City Council. The public majority in Richmond is minority lower class. Much of Richmond is a slum compared to what it once was. It was Richmond's voting population that helped carry VA for the usurper-in-chief.
    Wow. Richmond is a bastion of "yankee lower class minorities". Maybe you should secede.

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    The concern is that you folks will perceive THEM as a threat. From their attitude, perhaps they ARE the actual threat.

    Clearly these people are aware that the purpose behind the second amendment is to provide the citizens a means to cast off a tyrannical government. Since they clearly fit that description, why would you expect them to act in a way different then they have.

    Of course they are afraid of you. They are the virus and you are the cure.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    The concern is that you folks will perceive THEM as a threat. From their attitude, perhaps they ARE the actual threat.

    Clearly these people are aware that the purpose behind the second amendment is to provide the citizens a means to cast off a tyrannical government. Since they clearly fit that description, why would you expect them to act in a way different then they have.

    Of course they are afraid of you. They are the virus and you are the cure.
    I couldn't agree with you more!

  14. #14
    Regular Member Hendu024's Avatar
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    T Dubya wrote:

    The specific law that bars council action is 15.2-915 of the Virginia Code, which, in part, states: “No locality shall adopt or enforce any ordinance … governing the purchase, possession, transfer ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearmsammunition, or components … “ So while Councilman E. Martin “Marty” Jewell, 5th District, believes that “if people come armed to City Hall, we ought to be able to turn them away,” the council has no way to make that law, according to outgoing City Attorney Norman Sales. In Ms. Robertson’s opinion, Richmond Police officers should at least be able to check that people who come to City Hall “carrying weapons are carrying weapons that are unloaded.”
    What an excellent idea. dolt.

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    skidmark wrote:
    Darn. I'm going to have to visit there more often. Maybe they will get used to it, or maybe they will finally flip out completely. Either way, it's a sacrifice I'll make.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    I have been to city hall twice in the past couple of months open carrying, had lunch with my traveling companions Aunt. Not a word said. Even stood in the lobby for several minutes each time waiting for her, then we had lunch in Padow's both times.

  16. #16
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Tomahawk wrote:
    Wow. Richmond is a bastion of "yankee lower class minorities". Maybe you should secede.
    If it was up to me it would be done.

    LONG ago.

    However, you, sir, are putting words in my mouth. You deliberately interlaced two independent statements for the convenience of creating, what? An argument?

    Good luck with that.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    The concern is that you folks will perceive THEM as a threat. From their attitude, perhaps they ARE the actual threat.

    Clearly these people are aware that the purpose behind the second amendment is to provide the citizens a means to cast off a tyrannical government. Since they clearly fit that description, why would you expect them to act in a way different then they have.

    Of course they are afraid of you. They are the virus and you are the cure.
    At some basic level, you are correct, HF, but I think the more immediate reason for this is just plain anti-gun political grandstanding. If they truly feared for their lives they wouldn't show up for work. They know we are not immediately dangerous, but a little drama queen action is always good for a lousy politician.

    Just like the guy who called the cops on the Tony's 7...AFTER he sat next to them and ate his meal for a half hour, clearly he wasn't in fear for his life; he was just sticking it to some people who blew him off.

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    wylde007 wrote:
    Good luck with that, cholo.
    "Cholo"?

    My, we are full of racial references today, aren't we.

  19. #19
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Tomahawk wrote:
    "Cholo"?

    My, we are full of racial references today, aren't we.
    Meh.:?
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  20. #20
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    peter nap wrote:
    Even the silly Geese in Richmond know the truth. Why doesn't City Hall?

    Prolly 'cause the geese are smarter. :P

    They only get upset when you actually point a gun at them.

    Oh and they do not bite the hand that feeds them.

    Yata hey

    PS - Love this pic because it looks like one of the geese is towing the banner.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Tomahawk wrote:
    wylde007 wrote:
    Good luck with that, cholo.
    "Cholo"?

    My, we are full of racial references today, aren't we.
    I thought the same thing Tomahawk.

    Drink Pepto before turning on the computer Wylde. It helps.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitableand let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come . PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    aadvark wrote:
    Don't get started... vote every one of those suckers out of Office.
    +1


    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

    excerpt By Marko Kloos (http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/?s=major+caudill)

  23. #23
    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    Thundar wrote:
    Tomahawk wrote:
    wylde007 wrote:
    Good luck with that, cholo.
    "Cholo"?

    My, we are full of racial references today, aren't we.
    Now it makes me sad that I didn't go to Richmond for that meeting.
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

    excerpt By Marko Kloos (http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/?s=major+caudill)

  24. #24
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    wylde007 wrote:
    Cowardly quisling maggot yankee interlopers.

    Go back to your liberal bastions and get the hell out of my Commonwealth.
    As someone born and raised in NY and NJ, I find it a bit offensive that you are throwing the term "Yankee" into this. If you want to be proud of your Southern heritage, so be it, that's wonderful. Far too many times I've heard the term Yankee used in some sort of negative manner hereas if its someone's fault as to where they were born and raised. I don't see anyone running around here yelling "redneck" every five minutes. If you want to complain about the Council members and their stance on the topic, fine. Name calling only lowers us to the lowest common element and totally makes any valid argument worthless.

    To that end, I'd be hard pressed to believe that any of these "yankee interlopers" who occupy "your Commonwealth" have ever lived north of the Mason-Dixon line. A little investigating may turn up the fact that each of them probably claims the same Southern roots that you do sir. Just because someone is from the North does not immediately validate themas card carrying patrons of the anti-gun movement and a threat to your beloved heritage.

    Wylde, it seems from the numerous posts that I've read from you over these past months, that you'd like nothing more than to cut "your Commonwealth" from the rest of the U.S. and float it away to some magical land where you can preach revolt, sucession, militiasand some anti-police agenda....its a shame that you don't have more to contribute than that.


    James Reynolds

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    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    I HATE YANKEES!!!!!! GO RED SOX!!!!!

    :P
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