• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

"Gun Toters at City Hall"

T Dubya

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
914
Location
Richmond, Va, ,
imported post


[align=left]Council members express uneasiness,need for new law


[/align]

[align=left]By Jeremy M. Lazarus


[/align]

[align=left]Bruce Tyler wonders whether a bulletproof vest should be part of his City Council wardrobe. He’s only partly joking. The 1st District councilman has body armor on his mind after he and his eight colleagues had to face a glowering group of 10 men,
some carrying firearms, who shockingly showed up at the Nov. 23 council meeting at City Hall.“I am very uncomfortable around guns,” Mr. Tyler said this week in the wake of the meeting where a pistol-toting few came to lobby council. Their issue: Opposition to the council’s latest push for state controls on gun sales, particularly at laxly regulated gun shows. Having gun advocates brazenly showing their weapons “definitely made me uncomfortable,” said Mr. Tyler, an architect. [/align]

[align=left]In a Free Press inquiry Tuesday, four other council members also expressed concern at having to conduct city business in front of people wearing weapons in shoulder holsters or on their belts. The pistol-packing men were members of the Virginia Citizens Defense League. Most displayed orange stickers on their shirts stating “Guns Save Lives” in a city in which shootings are all too common.
[/align]

[align=left]“I support the right of people to bear arms to protect themselves,” a still seething Council Vice President Ellen F. Robertson, 6th District, said, “but I see no reason why people have to bring their weapons into an arena where there is no perceived threat.”
“It wasn’t appropriate,” said Chris A. Hilbert, 3rd District, who lost his father to gun violence.
[/align]

[align=left]“I wasn’t very happy about it,” said Council President Kathy C. Graziano, 4th district, “but I don’t think there is much we cando about it.” And that seems to be the case. Local officials have been stripped of authority to impose any restrictions on guns, gun sales and gun carrying by a General Assembly majority that has embraced the gun culture advocated by the likes of Philip Van Cleave, who led the pro-gun league members to City Council.
[/align]

[align=left]The specific law that bars council action is 15.2-915 of the Virginia Code, which, in part, states: “No locality shall adopt or
enforce any ordinance … governing the purchase, possession, transfer ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearmsammunition, or components … “ So while Councilman E. Martin “Marty” Jewell, 5th District, believes that “if people come armed to City Hall, we ought to be able to turn them away,” the council has no way to make that law, according to outgoing City Attorney Norman Sales. In Ms. Robertson’s opinion, Richmond Police officers should at least be able to check that people who come to City Hall “carrying weapons are carrying weapons that are unloaded.”
[/align]

[align=left]However, Richmond Police attorney Victoria Benjamin said this week that wearing unconcealed guns into City Hall is legal and of
ficers would first need probable cause that the owner represented a threat to make such a check. As it now stands, schools, courthouses, airports and restaurants that sell liquor are among the few places in the state where guns are still banned by the Virginia legislature. But it has taken repeated governor vetoes to maintain the ban on carrying concealed guns into places selling alcohol.
[/align]

[align=left]The legislature also has made it easier for citizens to get permits to carry concealed guns and expanded the places where they can be carried. Today permit-carrying citizens can openly wear their guns into the State Capitol, though the Executive Mansion is still off limits. As a result, Mr. Hilbert sees little value in trying to bring back metal detectors. Richmond experimented with metal detectors atCity Hall after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, but discarded them in 2005 as an unnecessary expense.
[/align]

[align=left]Ms. Graziano agrees. If people can openly carry weapons, she said, “Metal detectors would not do much good.” That is the reason, the council members argue, for new legislation that would end legal gun-toting at City Council meetings and other public meetings. “I think that is a reasonable thing to do,” Mr. Hilbert said.
[/align]
 

wylde007

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
3,035
Location
Va Beach, Occupied VA
imported post

Cowardly quisling maggot yankee interlopers.

Go back to your liberal bastions and get the hell out of my Commonwealth. If "guns" in a public arena make you uncomfortable then you have no business being a public representative you cowering, sniveling, whining pansy.
 

mpg9999

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Messages
410
Location
, Virginia, USA
imported post

T Dubya wrote:

[align=left]“I support the right of people to bear arms to protect themselves,” a still seething Council Vice President Ellen F. Robertson, 6th District, said, “but I see no reason why people have to bring their weapons into an arena where there is no perceived threat.” “It wasn’t appropriate,” said Chris A. Hilbert, 3rd District, who lost his father to gun violence.
[/align]

If there were a "perceived threat", why would you go there to begin with? If everyone always knew where the threat would be we wouldn't need to carry guns. I guess violence never happens at council meetings? Oh wait.... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23059784
 

Decoligny

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Messages
1,865
Location
Rosamond, California, USA
imported post

T Dubya wrote:

[align=left]Council members express uneasiness,need for new law

[/align]
[align=left]By Jeremy M. Lazarus

[/align]
[align=left]Bruce Tyler wonders whether a bulletproof vest should be part of his City Council wardrobe. He’s only partly joking. The 1st District councilman has body armor on his mind after he and his eight colleagues had to face a glowering group of 10 men,
some carrying firearms, who shockingly showed up at the Nov. 23 council meeting at City Hall.“I am very uncomfortable around guns,” Mr. Tyler said this week in the wake of the meeting where a pistol-toting few came to lobby council. Their issue: Opposition to the council’s latest push for state controls on gun sales, particularly at laxly regulated gun shows. Having gun advocates brazenly showing their weapons “definitely made me uncomfortable,” said Mr. Tyler, an architect. [/align]
[align=left]In a Free Press inquiry Tuesday, four other council members also expressed concern at having to conduct city business in front of people wearing weapons in shoulder holsters or on their belts. The pistol-packing men were members of the Virginia Citizens Defense League. Most displayed orange stickers on their shirts stating “Guns Save Lives” in a city in which shootings are all too common.
[/align]
[align=left]“I support the right of people to bear arms to protect themselves,” a still seething Council Vice President Ellen F. Robertson, 6th District, said, “but I see no reason why people have to bring their weapons into an arena where there is no perceived threat.”
“It wasn’t appropriate,” said Chris A. Hilbert, 3rd District, who lost his father to gun violence.
[/align]
[align=left]“I wasn’t very happy about it,” said Council President Kathy C. Graziano, 4th district, “but I don’t think there is much we cando about it.” And that seems to be the case. Local officials have been stripped of authority to impose any restrictions on guns, gun sales and gun carrying by a General Assembly majority that has embraced the gun culture advocated by the likes of Philip Van Cleave, who led the pro-gun league members to City Council.
[/align]
[align=left]The specific law that bars council action is 15.2-915 of the Virginia Code, which, in part, states: “No locality shall adopt or
enforce any ordinance … governing the purchase, possession, transfer ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearmsammunition, or components … “ So while Councilman E. Martin “Marty” Jewell, 5th District, believes that “if people come armed to City Hall, we ought to be able to turn them away,” the council has no way to make that law, according to outgoing City Attorney Norman Sales. In Ms. Robertson’s opinion, Richmond Police officers should at least be able to check that people who come to City Hall “carrying weapons are carrying weapons that are unloaded.”
[/align]
[align=left]However, Richmond Police attorney Victoria Benjamin said this week that wearing unconcealed guns into City Hall is legal and of
ficers would first need probable cause that the owner represented a threat to make such a check. As it now stands, schools, courthouses, airports and restaurants that sell liquor are among the few places in the state where guns are still banned by the Virginia legislature. But it has taken repeated governor vetoes to maintain the ban on carrying concealed guns into places selling alcohol.
[/align]
[align=left]The legislature also has made it easier for citizens to get permits to carry concealed guns and expanded the places where they can be carried. Today permit-carrying citizens can openly wear their guns into the State Capitol, though the Executive Mansion is still off limits. As a result, Mr. Hilbert sees little value in trying to bring back metal detectors. Richmond experimented with metal detectors atCity Hall after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, but discarded them in 2005 as an unnecessary expense.
[/align]
[align=left]Ms. Graziano agrees. If people can openly carry weapons, she said, “Metal detectors would not do much good.” That is the reason, the council members argue, for new legislation that would end legal gun-toting at City Council meetings and other public meetings. “I think that is a reasonable thing to do,” Mr. Hilbert said.
[/align]
As if the only threat we have to be prepared for is the "percieved" threat. Isn'tthe threat that you don't percieve usually the one that actually hurts someone.

Was Cho a "percieved threat" before he went on his rampage through Virginia Tech? No, if he was, then action would have been taken ahead of time.

Was the dirtbag who killed the four cops a "percieved threat"? No, or they would not have been shot.

Carrying a firearm openly helps to deter the "unpercieved threats" that could pop up anywhere.
 

aadvark

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
1,597
Location
, ,
imported post

Don't get started... vote every one of those suckers out of Office.
 

wylde007

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
3,035
Location
Va Beach, Occupied VA
imported post

@ aadvark:

Remember. It's Richmond City Council. The public majority in Richmond is minority lower class. Much of Richmond is a slum compared to what it once was. It was Richmond's voting population that helped carry VA for the usurper-in-chief.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
imported post

Darn. I'm going to have to visit there more often. Maybe they will get used to it, or maybe they will finally flip out completely. Either way, it's a sacrifice I'll make.

stay safe.

skidmark
 

lockman

State Researcher
Joined
Aug 19, 2006
Messages
1,193
Location
Elgin, Illinois, USA
imported post

“I support the right of people to bear arms to protect themselves,” a still seething Council Vice President Ellen F. Robertson, 6th District, said, “but I see no reason why people have to bring their weapons into an arena where there is no perceived threat.” “It wasn’t appropriate,” said Chris A. Hilbert, 3rd District, who lost his father to gun violence.


If you percieved a threat you would come armed more appropriatly than handguns, if I went at all. I see no reason why police have to bring their weapons into an arena where there is no perceived threat. I did not know the VA Constitution requires at minimum a "perceived threat" in order to bear arms.
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
imported post

Even the silly Geese in Richmond know the truth. Why doesn't City Hall?

cobb7.jpg
 

Tomahawk

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
5,117
Location
4 hours south of HankT, ,
imported post

wylde007 wrote:
Cowardly quisling maggot yankee interlopers.

Go back to your liberal bastions and get the hell out of my Commonwealth. If "guns" in a public arena make you uncomfortable then you have no business being a public representative you cowering, sniveling, whining pansy.
@ aadvark:

Remember. It's Richmond City Council. The public majority in Richmond is minority lower class. Much of Richmond is a slum compared to what it once was. It was Richmond's voting population that helped carry VA for the usurper-in-chief.
Wow. Richmond is a bastion of "yankee lower class minorities". Maybe you should secede.
 

Hawkflyer

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
3,309
Location
Prince William County, Virginia, USA
imported post

The concern is that you folks will perceive THEM as a threat. From their attitude, perhaps they ARE the actual threat.

Clearly these people are aware that the purpose behind the second amendment is to provide the citizens a means to cast off a tyrannical government. Since they clearly fit that description, why would you expect them to act in a way different then they have. :cuss:

Of course they are afraid of you. They are the virus and you are the cure.:banghead:
 

fully_armed_biker

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
463
Location
Portsmouth, Virginia, USA
imported post

Hawkflyer wrote:
The concern is that you folks will perceive THEM as a threat. From their attitude, perhaps they ARE the actual threat.

Clearly these people are aware that the purpose behind the second amendment is to provide the citizens a means to cast off a tyrannical government. Since they clearly fit that description, why would you expect them to act in a way different then they have. :cuss:

Of course they are afraid of you. They are the virus and you are the cure.:banghead:
I couldn't agree with you more! :banghead:
 

Hendu024

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2009
Messages
445
Location
Virginia Beach, Virginia, USA
imported post

T Dubya wrote:
[align=left]
The specific law that bars council action is 15.2-915 of the Virginia Code, which, in part, states: “No locality shall adopt or enforce any ordinance … governing the purchase, possession, transfer ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearmsammunition, or components … “ So while Councilman E. Martin “Marty” Jewell, 5th District, believes that “if people come armed to City Hall, we ought to be able to turn them away,” the council has no way to make that law, according to outgoing City Attorney Norman Sales. In Ms. Robertson’s opinion, Richmond Police officers should at least be able to check that people who come to City Hall “carrying weapons are carrying weapons that are unloaded.”
[/align]What an excellent idea. dolt.
 

ClumsyCandy

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
314
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
imported post

skidmark wrote:
Darn. I'm going to have to visit there more often. Maybe they will get used to it, or maybe they will finally flip out completely. Either way, it's a sacrifice I'll make.

stay safe.

skidmark
I have been to city hall twice in the past couple of months open carrying, had lunch with my traveling companions Aunt. Not a word said. Even stood in the lobby for several minutes each time waiting for her, then we had lunch in Padow's both times.
 

wylde007

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
3,035
Location
Va Beach, Occupied VA
imported post

Tomahawk wrote:
Wow. Richmond is a bastion of "yankee lower class minorities". Maybe you should secede.
If it was up to me it would be done.

LONG ago.

However, you, sir, are putting words in my mouth. You deliberately interlaced two independent statements for the convenience of creating, what? An argument?

Good luck with that.
 

Tomahawk

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
5,117
Location
4 hours south of HankT, ,
imported post

Hawkflyer wrote:
The concern is that you folks will perceive THEM as a threat. From their attitude, perhaps they ARE the actual threat.

Clearly these people are aware that the purpose behind the second amendment is to provide the citizens a means to cast off a tyrannical government. Since they clearly fit that description, why would you expect them to act in a way different then they have. :cuss:

Of course they are afraid of you. They are the virus and you are the cure.:banghead:

At some basic level, you are correct, HF, but I think the more immediate reason for this is just plain anti-gun political grandstanding. If they truly feared for their lives they wouldn't show up for work. They know we are not immediately dangerous, but a little drama queen action is always good for a lousy politician.

Just like the guy who called the cops on the Tony's 7...AFTER he sat next to them and ate his meal for a half hour, clearly he wasn't in fear for his life; he was just sticking it to some people who blew him off.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
imported post

peter nap wrote:
Even the silly Geese in Richmond know the truth. Why doesn't City Hall?

cobb7.jpg
Prolly 'cause the geese are smarter. :p

They only get upset when you actually point a gun at them.

Oh and they do not bite the hand that feeds them.

Yata hey

PS - Love this pic because it looks like one of the geese is towing the banner. :)
 
Top