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Thread: Swiss government

  1. #1
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    Not open carry worthy. I know I am preaching to the choir here.
    But we need to get our non carry friends to see this video.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nf1O...eature=popular

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    It's not as simple as most everyone having a gun which is the primary reason of low crime rates. It's the homogeneous nature of a society that is foremost to both keep crime low and national pride and tradition high. Switzerland is highly homogeneous; the United States is not.

    I am a member of the IWLA and during a membership drive, one of the submitting new members was Swiss. It was very interesting to talk to him and he was right at home on the firing range.


    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    I went to the with the Sergeant Major of the Swiss Army. A fine gentleman who gave a great lecture about the Swiss National Defense Force. He spoke 6 different languages and was on full time active duty. A true professional.
    ‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’ Thomas Jefferson

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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    It's not as simple as most everyone having a gun which is the primary reason of low crime rates.
    I disagree with you to a certain extent. Think about it are you going to go rob a home if you knew that there was a gun there and a man who is trained how to shoot it. I don't think so. you would go to the neighbors house who doesn't have a gun. but since all the neighbors have guns it dosen't make any sense to try and rob people or cause violence because everybody have a gun and will shoot back.
    Just the idea that eberybody owns and is possible carrying a gun is enough to deter people from crime.

  5. #5
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Gizmoe142 wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    It's not as simple as most everyone having a gun which is the primary reason of low crime rates.
    I disagree with you to a certain extent. Think about it are you going to go rob a home if you knew that there was a gun there and a man who is trained how to shoot it. I don't think so. you would go to the neighbors house who doesn't have a gun. but since all the neighbors have guns it dosen't make any sense to try and rob people or cause violence because everybody have a gun and will shoot back.
    Just the idea that eberybody owns and is possible carrying a gun is enough to deter people from crime.
    That wasn't my point at all. Perhaps I should have worded it differently. Switzerland is very homogeneous; we are not. While there are many reasons for crime to fester and grow, this a significant one.

    As for your remarks about robbers skipping houses where there are guns and people who know how to use them, I agree with you completely with one exception. The BG has to know this, otherwise you would look to him just like any other target. This is where OC'ing has a distinct advantage over CC'ing. If a BG sees a "target" carrying a firearm, the chance of him continuing his plans to accost you are almost negligent. He will simply find another target.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  6. #6
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    Homogenous? The Swiss have four official languages from distinct cultures, plus English as the unofficial lingua franca. Even those who ostensibly speak the same language can have difficulty understanding someone from the next valley.

    What they have in common is something far more important that racial, ethnic, or linguistic homogeneity: a culture of local independence and decentralized government. They also share a common understanding that the best way to maintain their local independence is to stay the hell out of other people's business, and to display a skilled resolve to repel would-be invaders.

    Switzerland is treated like a "nation" by everyone except the Swiss. The Confederatio Helvetica is a confederacy, just like our own former Confederacy, with each canton being highly autonomous. There are federal laws, but the French Swiss in Neuchâtel don't butt into the affairs of the Romansh of Graubünden; nor do the Germans of Basel worry about the Italians in Ticino.


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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Gizmoe142 wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    It's not as simple as most everyone having a gun which is the primary reason of low crime rates.
    I disagree with you to a certain extent. Think about it are you going to go rob a home if you knew that there was a gun there and a man who is trained how to shoot it. I don't think so. you would go to the neighbors house who doesn't have a gun. but since all the neighbors have guns it dosen't make any sense to try and rob people or cause violence because everybody have a gun and will shoot back.
    Just the idea that eberybody owns and is possible carrying a gun is enough to deter people from crime.
    That wasn't my point at all. Perhaps I should have worded it differently. Switzerland is very homogeneous; we are not. While there are many reasons for crime to fester and grow, this a significant one.

    As for your remarks about robbers skipping houses where there are guns and people who know how to use them, I agree with you completely with one exception. The BG has to know this, otherwise you would look to him just like any other target. This is where OC'ing has a distinct advantage over CC'ing. If a BG sees a "target" carrying a firearm, the chance of him continuing his plans to accost you are almost negligent. He will simply find another target.
    I think you were clear. I doubt he completely read you post.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

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    I did infact read the entire post i just disagree with the part about guns not being a major deter-ant for crime. Like SoutherBoy said someone OCing is less of a target then someone CCing because the criminal can see the gun. He will find another target. Well now multiply that by a few hundred thousand, and forget the fact or it being visible.

    Because anybody from Switerland has to go through the military and has to keep there guns when they leave. So Everybody in switerland has a gun and everybody else knows that they have guns so if you were a criminal and you knew everybody had a gun because everybody went throught the military. what would be the point of trying to rob anybody or commit crimes.

    Now I am not saying there isnt a Homogenous aspect im just saying the the idea that everybody owns a gun and knows how to use it is a big deter-ant.

  9. #9
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Gizmoe142 wrote:
    I did infact read the entire post i just disagree with the part about guns not being a major deter-ant for crime. Like SoutherBoy said someone OCing is less of a target then someone CCing because the criminal can see the gun. He will find another target. Well now multiply that by a few hundred thousand, and forget the fact or it being visible.

    Because anybody from Switerland has to go through the military and has to keep there guns when they leave. So Everybody in switerland has a gun and everybody else knows that they have guns so if you were a criminal and you knew everybody had a gun because everybody went throught the military. what would be the point of trying to rob anybody or commit crimes.

    Now I am not saying there isnt a Homogenous aspect im just saying the the idea that everybody owns a gun and knows how to use it is a big deter-ant.
    Taking one sentence out of context, thereby changing its meaning, and THEN addressing it directly is poor form. This response however, seems thought out and reasonable. Therefor it has much more credibility.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

  10. #10
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    KBCraig wrote:
    Homogenous? The Swiss have four official languages from distinct cultures, plus English as the unofficial lingua franca. Even those who ostensibly speak the same language can have difficulty understanding someone from the next valley.

    What they have in common is something far more important that racial, ethnic, or linguistic homogeneity: a culture of local independence and decentralized government. They also share a common understanding that the best way to maintain their local independence is to stay the hell out of other people's business, and to display a skilled resolve to repel would-be invaders.

    Switzerland is treated like a "nation" by everyone except the Swiss. The Confederatio Helvetica is a confederacy, just like our own former Confederacy, with each canton being highly autonomous. There are federal laws, but the French Swiss in Neuchâtel don't butt into the affairs of the Romansh of Graubünden; nor do the Germans of Basel worry about the Italians in Ticino.
    This is spot-on. I'm a Swiss citizen myself, and I can tell you from personal knowledge that Switzerland is far less homogeneous than the United States. It is, in fact, far and away the least homogeneous nation in the West. In culture, language, and political inclination, it displays an extreme diversity that would baffle Americans. Take, for instance, the fact that there is no political mechanism for enforcing federal law. When the Swiss Confederation passed a law banning the killing of wolves, the Cantons (States) refused to enforce it, and all the federal government could do was enlist the ever-liberal media to generate sympathy.

    What has held the country together since 1291 is not homogeneity, but a shared respect for the concept of individual liberty and self-governance. Its history gives the lie to those who assert that a confederation of sovereign states is inherently unstable.

  11. #11
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    Ihave been hearing about"the authorities" in Switzerland -- whoever they may be -- pressing for tightening up the "liberal" gun laws, even for those who are in the militia.

    Here is on such article on this unfortunate trend (although it's from 2007, itsummarizes what has been happening):http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/Swiss_aw...ml?cid=5957236

    If the "anti-gun culture" there issuccessful, it soon may be that Switzerland won't be the example of "gun freedom" it once was.

    And don't believe that a small (but vocal) minority can't bring about major changes for an entire country: Look at what the tiny (but loud and militant) pervert gay community has done here in this country to get their agenda accepted by most "Americans." [But not some, fortunately]

    The point is, things may be changing -- for the worse -- in Switzerland re: citizens and gun ownership/use.

    IIRC, even Israel puts serious restrictions on civilian gun carrying.

    Eventually, it may only be America which has the most freedom re: self-defense and the RKBA (i.e., citizens having the tools to exercise one's right of self-defense)...but with sorry Obama as President, and the Democrats looking to usetheir majority opportunity for accomplishing their liberal/socialist agenda -- who knows how long even America will be free.

    -- John D.

    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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