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Thread: Don't quit now! We're winning!

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member Jim675's Avatar
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    With of course the usual hysteria thrown in for balance...

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091211/...ooser_gun_laws

    NASHVILLE, Tenn. – It's been the year of the gun in Tennessee. In a flurry of legislative action, handgun owners won the right to take their weapons onto sports fields and playgrounds and, at least briefly, into bars.
    A change in leadership at the state Capitol helped open the doors to the gun-related bills and put Tennessee at the forefront of a largely unnoticed trend: In much of the country, it is getting easier to carry guns.
    A nationwide review by The Associated Press found that over the last two years, 24 states, mostly in the South and West, have passed 47 new laws loosening gun restrictions.
    Among other things, legislatures have allowed firearms to be carried in cars, made it illegal to ask job candidates whether they own a gun, and expanded agreements that make permits to carry handguns in one state valid in another.
    The trend is attributed in large part to a push by the National Rifle Association. The NRA, which for years has blocked attempts in Washington to tighten firearms laws, has ramped up its efforts at the state level to chip away at gun restrictions.
    "This is all a coordinated approach to respect that human, God-given right of self defense by law-abiding Americans," says Chris W. Cox, the NRA's chief lobbyist. "We'll rest when all 50 states allow and respect the right of law-abiding people to defend themselves from criminal attack."
    Among the recent gun-friendly laws:
    • Arizona, Florida, Louisiana and Utah have made it illegal for businesses to bar their employees from storing guns in cars parked on company lots.
    • Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana, South Carolina and Virginia have made some or all handgun permit information confidential.
    • Montana, Arizona and Kansas have allowed handgun permits to be issued to people who have had their felony convictions expunged or their full civil rights restored.
    • Tennessee and Montana have passed laws that exempt weapons made and owned in-state from federal restrictions. Tennessee is the home to Barrett Firearms Manufacturing, the maker of a .50-caliber shoulder-fired rifle that the company says can shoot bullets up to five miles and is banned in California.
    The AP compiled the data on new laws from groups ranging from the Legal Community Against Violence, which advocates gun control, to the NRA.
    Public attitudes toward gun control have shifted strongly over the past 50 years, according to Gallup polling. In 1959, 60 percent of respondents said they favored a ban on handguns except for "police and other authorized persons." Gallup's most recent annual crime survey in October found 71 percent opposed such a ban.
    The NRA boasts that almost all states grant handgun permits to people with clean criminal and psychological records. In 1987, only 10 states did. Only Wisconsin, Illinois and the District of Columbia now prohibit the practice entirely.
    "The NRA has a stranglehold on a lot of state legislatures," said Kristin Rand, legislative director the Violence Policy Center, a gun control group in Washington. "They basically have convinced lawmakers they can cost them their seats, even though there's no real evidence to back that up."
    Tennessee's new laws came after the Republican takeover of the General Assembly this year, but most other states that loosened restrictions didn't experience major partisan shifts. Most of the states where the new laws were enacted have large rural populations, where support for gun rights tends to cross party lines.
    While some states have tightened gun laws during the same period, the list of new restrictive laws is much shorter. In 2009 alone, more than three times as many laws were passed to make it easier on gun owners.
    New Jersey's 2009 law limiting people to one handgun purchase per month is the most notable of the more restrictive laws. Other examples this year include Maryland's ban on concealed weapons on public transit and Maine's vote to give public universities and colleges the power to regulate firearms on campus.
    The most contentious of Tennessee's new gun laws was one allowing handguns in bars and restaurants that serve alcohol. It took effect in July after lawmakers overrode a veto by the governor. Last month, a Nashville judge struck down the law as unconstitutionally vague, but supporters have vowed to pass it again.
    A similar Arizona law that took effect in September allows people with concealed-weapons permits to bring their guns into bars and restaurants that haven't posted signs banning them.
    While Tennessee's law was in place, many bars chose not to let customers bring guns in. Likewise, more than 70 communities have opted out of allowing guns in parks.
    "People go in there and start drinking and then they want to start a fight. What are they going to do if they got a gun in their hand?" said Larry Speck, 69, who works at an auto repair shop in Memphis. "I've got a gun permit and I'm not carrying mine in there even if they have a law."
    Chattanooga retiree Ken Hasse, 71, said he worries about the possible consequences of allowing people to carry their guns in places like parks. "It's going to tempt somebody to use one," he said.
    Supporters of expanding handgun rights argue that people with state-issued permits are far less likely to commit crimes, and that more lawfully armed people cause a reduction in crime. Opponents fear that more guns could lead to more crime.
    Academics are divided on the effects of liberalized handgun laws, and determining the impact is complicated by the move in several states to close handgun permit records.
    A Violence Policy Center project has mined news reports to find that more than 100 people have been killed by holders of handgun-carry permits since 2007, including nine law enforcement officers. The project originally intended to list all gun crimes by permit holders, but there were too many to keep track of, Rand said.
    "They shoot each other over parking spaces, at football games and at family events," Rand said. "The idea that you're making any place safer by injecting more guns is just completely contradicted by the facts."
    The flood of legislative victories in Tennessee after many years of frustration now has some gun backers aiming for a whole new level of freedom: No permits at all.
    The permit laws "are an extra burden on people to exercise essentially a constitutional right," said John Harris, executive director of the Tennessee Firearms Association.
    ___
    Associated Press writers Lucas L. Johnson II in Memphis and Bill Poovey in Chattanooga contributed to this report.


  2. #2
    Regular Member Huck's Avatar
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    A Violence Policy Center project has mined news reports to find that more than 100 people have been killed by holders of handgun-carry permits since 2007, including nine law enforcement officers. The project originally intended to list all gun crimes by permit holders, but there were too many to keep track of, Rand said.
    "They shoot each other over parking spaces, at football games and at family events," Rand said. "The idea that you're making any place safer by injecting more guns is just completely contradicted by the facts."
    VPC "facts"? It's intersting how these claims of shootouts over parking spaces, at ball games, etc. by CCW holders did'nt seem to make the news since such things would be all over the lamestream media'sheadlines if they actually did happen.

    Rand's so full of crap that his eyes are brown.

    "You can teach 'em, but you cant learn 'em."

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    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    "A Violence Policy Center project has mined news reports to find that more than 100 people have been killed by holders of handgun-carry permits since 2007, including nine law enforcement officers. The project originally intended to list all gun crimes by permit holders, but there were too many to keep track of, Rand said.
    "They shoot each other over parking spaces, at football games and at family events," Rand said. "The idea that you're making any place safer by injecting more guns is just completely contradicted by the facts."

    This is so much BS it's pathetic! If they had one honest example of it the "Lamestream Media" would have been on it like a duck on a junebug.
    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    Huck wrote:
    A Violence Policy Center project has mined news reports to find that more than 100 people have been killed by holders of handgun-carry permits since 2007, including nine law enforcement officers. The project originally intended to list all gun crimes by permit holders, but there were too many to keep track of, Rand said.
    "They shoot each other over parking spaces, at football games and at family events," Rand said. "The idea that you're making any place safer by injecting more guns is just completely contradicted by the facts."
    VPC "facts"? It's intersting how these claims of shootouts over parking spaces, at ball games, etc. by CCW holders did'nt seem to make the news since such things would be all over the lamestream media's*headlines if they actually did happen.*

    Rand's so full of crap that his eyes are brown.
    Hmm... sounds like he just said people like me shoot people over parking spaces...

    I wonder if such defamation is actionable...?
    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

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    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    Hm maybe a class action suit, with about 5 million Plaintiffs?
    Keep your powder dry!
    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. Thomas Jefferson

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    Come, my tan-faced children,
    Follow well in order, get your weapons ready,
    Have you your pistols? Have you your sharp-edged axes?
    Pioneers! O pioneers!

    For we cannot tarry here,
    We must march my darlings, we must bear the brunt of danger,
    We the youthful sinewy races, all the rest on us depend,
    Pioneers! O pioneers!

    O you youths, Western youths,
    So impatient, full of action, full of manly pride and friendship,
    Plain I see you Western youths, see you tramping with the foremost,
    Pioneers! O pioneers!


    'Pioneers, O Pioneers' - Walt Whitman

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    Unfortunately, I think there was an incident in which a HCP holder did shoot some one over a parking space.

    In the eyes of the VPC, that makes us all parking lot killers.

  8. #8
    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    KansasMustang wrote:
    Hm maybe a class action suit, with about 5 million Plaintiffs?
    Keep your powder dry!
    I'm sure there will be an attorney that will take the case, for a fee of cource.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

  9. #9
    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    Unfortunately, I think there was an incident in which a HCP holder did shoot some one over a parking space.

    In the eyes of the VPC, that makes us all parking lot killers.
    Where and when did that happen? I never saw it in the lame stream media,,of course i don't watch it,,but FOX would have shown it? References???
    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. Thomas Jefferson

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    KansasMustang wrote:
    Task Force 16 wrote:
    Unfortunately, I think there was an incident in which a HCP holder did shoot some one over a parking space.

    In the eyes of the VPC, that makes us all parking lot killers.
    Where and when did that happen? I never saw it in the lame stream media,,of course i don't watch it,,but FOX would have shown it? References???

    It is very likely that a real situation such as:

    "GG parks poorly, and dings the BG's car door. BG gets mad, start smashing headlights, then goes after GG. GG then defends, and shoots BG."

    Which is translated by the media to:

    "Man shoots innocents in cold blood during parking spot debate!"


    I honestly don't know in truth, but you can't really trust news headlines.

  11. #11
    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Maybe this one?

    http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/artic...1_hTheRi146269

    I am sure that if you google the major metro areas in each state you will find other situations similar to this one ... it just ended in a parking lot.
    cheers - okboomer
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    Exercising my 2A Rights does NOT make me a CRIMINAL! Infringing on the exercise of those rights makes YOU one!

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    I tried several years ago to get a lawsuit started against the Brady bunch for defamation.

    It took hold real fast and the one who was to hire an attorney backed off and the movement died.

    I'm willing to repeat the movement again. Sign me on.

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    bigdaddy1 wrote:
    I'm sure there will be an attorney that will take the case, for a fee of cource.
    Well, damn him, the bastard. Charging people for his time and expertise.

    No ethical person would ever do such a thing.

    /sarcasm off

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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    Phoenixphire wrote:
    bigdaddy1 wrote:
    I'm sure there will be an attorney that will take the case, for a fee of cource.
    Well, damn him, the bastard. Charging people for his time and expertise.

    No ethical person would ever do such a thing.

    /sarcasm off
    Did my post make some indication that it wasnt ok?

    Feel free to keep your sarcasm set on high
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

  15. #15
    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    The guy threatened to kill him (a 68 year old man) chased him around his car basically from what I read. WITH the guy pointing his weapon at him. In MY mind the shooting was vindicated, bu then I wasn't there, nor did I hear all the testimony. IF it was a younger much larger man than I am, I may have done the same thing. Who knows until you're in the situation. Still, it's a VERY few .001% of CC permit holders that ever commit any crimes. edited for added this:
    And just think, if he'd just have shot to wound?? He'd be supporting the bastard for life. And again, we're off topic,,My bad

    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. Thomas Jefferson

  16. #16
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    Unfortunately, I think there was an incident in which a HCP holder did shoot some one over a parking space.

    In the eyes of the VPC, that makes us all parking lot killers.
    Then If a single non-CHP has shot someone over a parking space, that means EVERYONE WHO HAS EVER USED A PARKING SPACE KILLED SOMEONE FOR IT.

    I love logic arguments.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
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