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Provo Towne Centre - gun or no gun

J

JTknives

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Provo, , USA
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Thinking of going to theprovo towne center mall and was wondering if thy had a ban on guns yet. thanks
 
UtahJarhead

UtahJarhead

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It doesn't LOOK like provotownecentre.com has any rules relating to firearms, guns, or weapons posted. I checked using google and their on-site search. I checked their Terms of Use, etc... their parent company appears to be a private company, but I suppose there could be public funding in there somewhere.

Are you looking to OC or CC?

Also, remember... signs of 'no guns' mean jack squat here in Utah. It means they don't approve of them, but that's it. The most they can do is ask us to leave. If you refuse to leave, then they can try charging you with trespassing. By Utah statute, in a publicly accessible store, trespassing requires that someone significantly interrupt someone's business. My advice, leave if they ask you to, but IANAL... You cannot legally be arrested merely for carrying in there.
 
J

JTknives

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Provo, , USA
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that is interesting. my roommate and ijust got back from the dollar movie and right on the ticket window there was a sign, "guns prohibited". I was like damn so i walked back to the car and put the gun away even though i did not want to. i just have always though that if a public place wanted to ban guns then thy should have to provide security to protect the helpless people thy took the guns away from. so if i decided to open carry as that is all i do, how would i handle a confrontation about my gun. where thy say, did you not see the "no guns allowed sign" at the door of the mall.
 
R

rpyne

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Provo, Utah, USA
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JTknives wrote:
that is interesting. my roommate and ijust got back from the dollar movie and right on the ticket window there was a sign, "guns prohibited". I was like damn so i walked back to the car and put the gun away even though i did not want to. i just have always though that if a public place wanted to ban guns then thy should have to provide security to protect the helpless people thy took the guns away from. so if i decided to open carry as that is all i do, how would i handle a confrontation about my gun. where thy say, did you not see the "no guns allowed sign" at the door of the mall.
Click to expand...
If my gun isn't welcome, neither am I. If they don't want me there with my gun, they don't want my money.
 
UtahJarhead

UtahJarhead

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JTknives wrote:
that is interesting. my roommate and ijust got back from the dollar movie and right on the ticket window there was a sign, "guns prohibited". I was like damn so i walked back to the car and put the gun away even though i did not want to. i just have always though that if a public place wanted to ban guns then thy should have to provide security to protect the helpless people thy took the guns away from. so if i decided to open carry as that is all i do, how would i handle a confrontation about my gun. where thy say, did you not see the "no guns allowed sign" at the door of the mall.
Click to expand...
You you are stopped on private property about your gun and asked to leave, you just leave. There's no trick to it, but if you want to, feel free to ask them about their CORPORATE POLICY on firearms. You can ask to see it in writing, but if they insist on getting you out the door, get their name and send off a letter detailing the situation to their corporate HQ. If their corporate HQ fires back and says 'too bad' then there are other companies that deserve your money. Otherwise, they'll say they follow state law, so that gives you something you can put in your pocket if you decide to go back.
 
R

rocknsnow

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Oct 22, 2007
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Layton, Utah, USA
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rpyne wrote:
I have OCd there several times without incident.
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I have oced there several times as well without incident. I was asked one time by the security guys to leave. I did and have gone back several times and never had another issue.
 
M

Mudruck

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Oct 8, 2007
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rpyne wrote:
JTknives wrote:
that is interesting. my roommate and ijust got back from the dollar movie and right on the ticket window there was a sign, "guns prohibited". I was like damn so i walked back to the car and put the gun away even though i did not want to. i just have always though that if a public place wanted to ban guns then thy should have to provide security to protect the helpless people thy took the guns away from. so if i decided to open carry as that is all i do, how would i handle a confrontation about my gun. where thy say, did you not see the "no guns allowed sign" at the door of the mall.
Click to expand...
If my gun isn't welcome, neither am I. If they don't want me there with my gun, they don't want my money.
Click to expand...
Same here, if they feel that I am a 'threat' to them when I OC, I will go somewhere else with my money and will write them a letter letting them know that they lost business as well.
 
S

scorpioajr

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Jun 17, 2008
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Eagle Mountain, Utah, USA
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JoeSparky wrote:
Don't often frequent the malls but I, also, have OC'd there SEVERAL times without incident!
Click to expand...

+1.
Myself and my wife have OCed there. No issues. of course we get the usual looks IF our firearms are noticed, but no harassment by the fuzz or anything.
 
L

Lamedog

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Dec 17, 2009
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Roy, Utah, USA
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As a customer you are their best and worst advertisment. I tell 'em ," I will tell everyone that will stop long enough about this incident".
 
J

joelevi

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Syracuse, Utah, USA
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UtahJarhead wrote:
igns of 'no guns' mean jack squat here in Utah.  It means they don't approve of them, but that's it.  The most they can do is ask us to leave.  If you refuse to leave, then they can try charging you with trespassing.  By Utah statute, in a publicly accessible store, trespassing requires that someone significantly interrupt someone's business. [...]  You cannot legally be arrested merely for carrying in there.
Click to expand...


Thats mostly correct.

"No guns" signs at courthouses, mental health facilities, (some) churches/temples, jails, the secure area at an airport, (arguably) at US Post Offices, and similar places [do] need to be observed (because their prohibitions are codified in state/federal law).

I knew what you were trying to say, I just wanted to correct that little technicality for you.

- Joe Levi http://JoeLevi.com
 
UtahJarhead

UtahJarhead

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joelevi wrote:
UtahJarhead wrote:
igns of 'no guns' mean jack squat here in Utah. It means they don't approve of them, but that's it. The most they can do is ask us to leave. If you refuse to leave, then they can try charging you with trespassing. By Utah statute, in a publicly accessible store, trespassing requires that someone significantly interrupt someone's business. [...] You cannot legally be arrested merely for carrying in there.
Click to expand...


Thats mostly correct.

"No guns" signs at courthouses, mental health facilities, (some) churches/temples, jails, the secure area at an airport, (arguably) at US Post Offices, and similar places [do] need to be observed (because their prohibitions are codified in state/federal law).

I knew what you were trying to say, I just wanted to correct that little technicality for you.

- Joe Levi http://JoeLevi.com
Click to expand...
The signs themselves mean nothing, it's the law that prevents you from entering. The signs just happen to reflect the law.
 
J

joelevi

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The only exception is mental health facilites. There the sign is the law. If a mental health facility doesn't have a sign probihiting weapons they're not prohibited, and vice versa.

You are correct about other signs though.

-joe
 
R

rpyne

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Oct 23, 2007
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Provo, Utah, USA
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joelevi wrote:
The only exception is mental health facilites. There the sign is the law. If a mental health facility doesn't have a sign probihiting weapons they're not prohibited, and vice versa.

You are correct about other signs though.

-joe
Click to expand...
If you read the definition in the law, it must be a mental health facility that is either operated by the state or contracts with the state or local government. Also, they are also subject to the requirements for being a secure area, such as lockers.

76-8-311.1. Secure areas -- Items prohibited -- Penalty.
(1) In addition to the definitions in Section 76-10-501, as used in this section:
(a) "Correctional facility" has the same meaning as defined in Section 76-8-311.3.
(b) "Explosive" has the same meaning as defined for "explosive, chemical, or incendiary device" defined in Section 76-10-306.
(c) "Law enforcement facility" means a facility which is owned, leased, or operated by a law enforcement agency.
(d) "Mental health facility" has the same meaning as defined in Section 62A-15-602.
(e) (i) "Secure area" means any area into which certain persons are restricted from transporting any firearm, ammunition, dangerous weapon, or explosive.
(ii) A "secure area" may not include any area normally accessible to the public.
(2) (a) A person in charge of a correctional, law enforcement, or mental health facility may establish secure areas within the facility and may prohibit or control by rule any firearm, ammunition, dangerous weapon, or explosive.
(b) Subsections (2)(a), (3), (4), (5), and (6) apply to higher education secure area hearing rooms referred to in Subsections 53B-3-103(2)(a)(ii) and (b).
(3) At least one notice shall be prominently displayed at each entrance to an area in which a firearm, ammunition, dangerous weapon, or explosive is restricted.
(4) (a) Provisions shall be made to provide a secure weapons storage area so that persons entering the secure area may store their weapons prior to entering the secure area.
(b) The entity operating the facility shall be responsible for weapons while they are stored in the storage area.
(5) It is a defense to any prosecution under this section that the accused, in committing the act made criminal by this section, acted in conformity with the facility's rule or policy established pursuant to this section.
(6) (a) Any person who knowingly or intentionally transports into a secure area of a facility any firearm, ammunition, or dangerous weapon is guilty of a third degree felony.
(b) Any person violates Section 76-10-306 who knowingly or intentionally transports, possesses, distributes, or sells any explosive in a secure area of a facility.
Click to expand...

62A-15-602 (9) "Mental health facility" means the Utah State Hospital or other facility that provides mental health services under contract with the division, a local mental health authority, or organization that contracts with a local mental health authority.
Click to expand...
 
J

joelevi

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I didn't realize the signage requirement carried over to correctional facilities (etc.) In addition to mental healt facilities.

It's the "secure area" which may (or may not) be created inside those facilities which require the signage.

To your point, the signs have no weight of law, rather the creation of those "secure areas" requires the signage.

My point was saying that the signs carry no weight in law may give the impression that one can ignore all such signs, which of course is not what you meant, but one might infer.

Thank you for pointing out the code. :)

- Joe
 
J

joelevi

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UtahJarhead wrote:
lol ok...  so we're all in agreement then.
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Yup! You and I agree on most topics, which I why I don't typically chime in to "correct" you.

I just don't want people to think they can willey-nilley ignore the signs (nor should they ignorantly obey the signs).

Bottom line, if you're carrying a sidearm: KNOW THE LAW, don't take a sign's word for it (or a security officer, or a LEO for that matter).

Keep up the good work. :)

- Joe Levi, http://JoeLevi.com
 
J

JTknives

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Location
Provo, , USA
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well i guess some one saw this thread and contacted the mall becausei got an email from someone high up on the malls food chain (General Manager) and this is what thy said.

JT,



I support the right to carry. However, the mall is private property.
Just wanted you to know that the "no weapons" notice is posted at every
entrance. I didn't know how to post this on the blog. Can you update?



Scott Hansen, CSM

General Manager

Provo Towne Centre

ph. 801-852-2401

fx. 801-852-2405



Please remember to shop Provo Towne Centre first.
Click to expand...

I have thought about sending an email back saying, I'm glad that you support the right to carry but as long as you ban it from the mall i will not be stepping foot in there. as i don't support any company that try's to take away my constitutional right to bear arms.

now can thy ban you from the mall. like if i do carry there and thy say i have to leave and i do but next week i go back is that a problem. i mean how many times can you be asked to leave.
 
UtahJarhead

UtahJarhead

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312
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Ogden, UT, ,
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JTknives wrote:
well i guess some one saw this thread and contacted the mall becausei got an email from someone high up on the malls food chain (General Manager) and this is what thy said.

JT,



I support the right to carry. However, the mall is private property.
Just wanted you to know that the "no weapons" notice is posted at every
entrance. I didn't know how to post this on the blog. Can you update?



Scott Hansen, CSM

General Manager

Provo Towne Centre

ph. 801-852-2401

fx. 801-852-2405



Please remember to shop Provo Towne Centre first.
Click to expand...

I have thought about sending an email back saying, I'm glad that you support the right to carry but as long as you ban it from the mall i will not be stepping foot in there. as i don't support any company that try's to take away my constitutional right to bear arms.

now can thy ban you from the mall. like if i do carry there and thy say i have to leave and i do but next week i go back is that a problem. i mean how many times can you be asked to leave.
Click to expand...
They can ask you as many times as they want. Until they say "Never come back here" it's not trespassing. Even by law, trespassing would be hard to stick because you have to significantly interfere with their day-to-day business. I wish I could find the UC for it. :( Otherwise, if you want to go back the next week, do it.
 
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